Mineral question...

[elkwc]

I have always used the Hi-Mag from March-mid May because we have had issues with grass tetany in the past. I then switch them to foundation with IGR. I looked at the tags, the ultimate has a higher vitamin E content. I may switch to that this time. I am using concept aid on a group of cows this spring to compare conception rates with the ones on the co-op mineral and the same cows preg rate last year. The vitaferm is about double the price, Will let you know how it turns out. If it increases the preg rate by 5-6% like everyone in their testimonials is claiming, it will pay for itself. My local co-op odered the vitaferm mineral for me, I'm sure they can do the same for you.

I'm curious what you pay for the Vitaferm Concept Aid Mag. We pay $32.00 I think. Feel it is worth the extra for the extra Mag.

 

[elkwc]

Anybody see a downside to feeding HiMag year round?

co op guru told me I dont need hi mag if I stay on a good mineral, If you look at the tag, consumption is twice as much on hi mag, even though a few dollars cheaper per bag, alot higher in the long run. at least the way I think
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We have never seen that kind of increase with high mag. We see a 3-4 week increase in the spring and the same in the fall. The rest of the time consumption is fairly low.

 

[midTN_Brangusman]

I have always used the Hi-Mag from March-mid May because we have had issues with grass tetany in the past. I then switch them to foundation with IGR. I looked at the tags, the ultimate has a higher vitamin E content. I may switch to that this time. I am using concept aid on a group of cows this spring to compare conception rates with the ones on the co-op mineral and the same cows preg rate last year. The vitaferm is about double the price, Will let you know how it turns out. If it increases the preg rate by 5-6% like everyone in their testimonials is claiming, it will pay for itself. My local co-op odered the vitaferm mineral for me, I'm sure they can do the same for you.

I'm curious what you pay for the Vitaferm Concept Aid Mag. We pay $32.00 I think. Feel it is worth the extra for the extra Mag.

For the 8S it runs 37 a bag from the co-op.

 

[Lucky_P]

I've never understood the thinking behind folks who feed hi-mag mineral all year round.
The cows certainly don't need the extra magnesium through most of the year... here, we only feed it for a couple of months after turnout onto fresh spring grass, and if I didn't have spring-calving cows, I'm not certain that I'd need it then... and it's generally less palatable than 'regular' mineral, so consumption plummets when we're feeding the hi-mag... enough so that it could be viewed as a 'cost-saving' practice... but it might be counterproductive, as the diminished consumption probably means they're not getting enough of everything else they need.

 

[Bright Raven]

I've never understood the thinking behind folks who feed hi-mag mineral all year round.
The cows certainly don't need the extra magnesium through most of the year... here, we only feed it for a couple of months after turnout onto fresh spring grass, and if I didn't have spring-calving cows, I'm not certain that I'd need it then... and it's generally less palatable than 'regular' mineral, so consumption plummets when we're feeding the hi-mag... enough so that it could be viewed as a 'cost-saving' practice... but it might be counterproductive, as the diminished consumption probably means they're not getting enough of everything else they need.

I only feed the hi mag from about January 1 until about April 15.

One thing here, the consumption does not change when going from VitaFerm 8/S to VitaFerm Mag. I think the VitaFerm is formulated in a way that makes even the hi mag palatable.

 

[TexasBred]

I've never understood the thinking behind folks who feed hi-mag mineral all year round.
The cows certainly don't need the extra magnesium through most of the year... here, we only feed it for a couple of months after turnout onto fresh spring grass, and if I didn't have spring-calving cows, I'm not certain that I'd need it then... and it's generally less palatable than 'regular' mineral, so consumption plummets when we're feeding the hi-mag... enough so that it could be viewed as a 'cost-saving' practice... but it might be counterproductive, as the diminished consumption probably means they're not getting enough of everything else they need.

Absolutely and if you'll pay close attention to the tag all other minerals as well as vitamins are greatly reduced with the exception of salt and calcium. It should be cheaper than it is.

 

[Hippie Rancher]

Given your username Hippie, I would ask what is your opinion of Genetic Modification? I understand what you are saying about improving ground cover and ecological function, but as you and Causic mentioned Brahman's have natural insect resistance. Much the same, the Continental Breeds are much more resistant to Pinkey than the British breeds. This is only an accelerated process of what normally would take generations for natural selection to accomplish. Cattle are now domesticated, I don't see that ever changing short of the Apocolypse. What if we could have a cow that is insect and disease resitant without the necessity of vaccines or chemicals?

GM is basically just applied selection, I don't really have a problem with it (I am pretty pro-science for a hippy ) with some caution surrounding adding genetic material to an organism that doesn't already carry a version of whatever is being added. Safety testing and that old scary monster of govt. regulation and supervision isn't all bad, ya know?

Why not have resistance included with docility or birthwights, milking, growth or any other trait we select for?

 

[Banjo]

I've never understood the thinking behind folks who feed hi-mag mineral all year round.
The cows certainly don't need the extra magnesium through most of the year... here, we only feed it for a couple of months after turnout onto fresh spring grass, and if I didn't have spring-calving cows, I'm not certain that I'd need it then... and it's generally less palatable than 'regular' mineral, so consumption plummets when we're feeding the hi-mag... enough so that it could be viewed as a 'cost-saving' practice... but it might be counterproductive, as the diminished consumption probably means they're not getting enough of everything else they need.

I had a purina rep....pretty high up the ladder tell me a couple years ago, just how much magnesium a cow needs per day especially if she's nursing a calf and most of the time they can't get enough out of the grass and hay.
It made sense to me. I feed hi-mag year round.....if i go off of it to a mineral with very low mag or no mag like the experts tell us to do...which is most of the year.....then my herd health declines especially in the area of pinkeye.

 

[TNRiver]

How many of you who feed a complete mineral also put out straight salt as well? Blocks or loose salt?

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

I keep sack salt and mineral out year round.

 

[Bright Raven]

How many of you who feed a complete mineral also put out straight salt as well? Blocks or loose salt?

VitaFerm instructions have changed in the last couple years. At one time, it said to put out loose white salt with VitaFerm Concept Aid. At that time, there was zero NaCl in their mix. The VitaFerm concept Aid now has some NaCl in the formula. So now it says, you only need to put out loose white salt in close location with VitaFerm if you want to control consumption.

I continue to put out loose white salt in close proximity to VitaFerm.

 

[True Grit Farms]

I keep sack salt and mineral out year round.

Do you think cows really need free choice salt, and why? I put out trace mineral salt blocks to try and limit salt intake and in courage mineral consumption.

 

[True Grit Farms]

How many of you who feed a complete mineral also put out straight salt as well? Blocks or loose salt?

VitaFerm instructions have changed in the last couple years. At one time, it said to put out loose white salt with VitaFerm Concept Aid. At that time, there was zero NaCl in their mix. The VitaFerm concept Aid now has some NaCl in the formula. So now it says, you only need to put out loose white salt in close location with VitaFerm if you want to control consumption.

I continue to put out loose salt in close proximity to VitaFerm.

What are the health benefits to feeding salt to a cow? I've been trying to figure this out since salt is used a limiter in feed.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Its a necessary mineral needed for life. Thats why deer will paw and dig at a hillside to get to whatever minerals they need. Its doubles as a limiter because most things can only eat but so much of it

Come on now Hook that's a pretty weak debate. My cows and the deer don't become sick or die because there's no salt available. We all eat things that aren't good for us, and eating to much of stuff that's good for you can be bad.

 

[TNRiver]

It definitely acts as a limiter to mineral consumption, but my reservation is will the cows continue to get sufficient minerals if loose salt is available? I am not sure I have enough confidence in the old addage that "they know what they need and they'll eat the minerals they are supposed to."

 

[Bright Raven]

How many of you who feed a complete mineral also put out straight salt as well? Blocks or loose salt?

VitaFerm instructions have changed in the last couple years. At one time, it said to put out loose white salt with VitaFerm Concept Aid. At that time, there was zero NaCl in their mix. The VitaFerm concept Aid now has some NaCl in the formula. So now it says, you only need to put out loose white salt in close location with VitaFerm if you want to control consumption.

I continue to put out loose salt in close proximity to VitaFerm.

What are the health benefits to feeding salt to a cow? I've been trying to figure this out since salt is used a limiter in feed.

White salt is NaCl. It supplies sodium and chloride - essential for many functions. The sodium pump cannot function without it. A major body function.

 

[Bright Raven]

It definitely acts as a limiter to mineral consumption, but my reservation is will the cows continue to get sufficient minerals if loose salt is available? I am not sure I have enough confidence in the old addage that "they know what they need and they'll eat the minerals they are supposed to."

I keep mine out side by side. Vitaferm seems to be palatable because they eat more of it than the salt. However, without the salt, they might over consume the vitaferm.

 

[JMJ Farms]

It definitely acts as a limiter to mineral consumption, but my reservation is will the cows continue to get sufficient minerals if loose salt is available? I am not sure I have enough confidence in the old addage that "they know what they need and they'll eat the minerals they are supposed to."

Always been my hang up too. I don't want them eating those high priced minerals just to get salt. But is their craving for salt what's making them consume the minerals? I don't know. I asked the cows, but I couldn't get a definitive answer. So I continue to feed free choice minerals.

 

[Bright Raven]

It definitely acts as a limiter to mineral consumption, but my reservation is will the cows continue to get sufficient minerals if loose salt is available? I am not sure I have enough confidence in the old addage that "they know what they need and they'll eat the minerals they are supposed to."

Always been my hang up too. I don't want them eating those high priced minerals just to get salt. But is their craving for salt what's making them consume the minerals? I don't know. I asked the cows, but I couldn't get a definitive answer. So I continue to feed free choice minerals.

The term "salt" in chemistry has a broader meaning than just "table salt" - NaCl. A salt is any ionic compound formed by the reaction of an acid and a base. Most compounds in a bag of commercial mineral is in the form of a "salt". Not just NaCl. There is also ZnCl, etc. Salts are sensed by mammals on a specific part of the tongue. It has evolved to be a pleasant sensation. Thus, mammals desire "salts". However, cows unlike humans are not knowledgeable of Chemistry. They don't differentiate between a salt like NaCl and ZnCl. So they will satisfy their desire for salt in either mineral or white loose NaCl. You are exactly right, all you can do is make it available.

 

[True Grit Farms]

I guess because that's the way grandpa did it, it must be right. For all I know salt might be like coke or sweet tea to a cow.