After reading about Vitaferm in the Ferappease thread we've decided to look into it again. We looked years ago but the closet dealer was a good ways off so we scrapped the idea. After looking we now have a dealer only 25 miles away. I'd like some real world info from those feeding vtiferm. Are y'all feeding bags or tubs and which product and what time of year? We're in NE Texas so winter temps are typically 20*-60 November through April and get above 100* from July- 1st part of September. I bring up the temps because the dealer I talked with years ago brought up the Heat mineral for summer time. Also how much are they eating a day?
Vitaferm Mineral Program
- Thread starter Lucky
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The Stress Tubs are great for weaned calves.
As far as the protein tubs, they are probably better than most brands - but all brands are a waste of money --- unless you have pasture/hay that is really pizz poor and you need to balance it with protein so they can utilize the pasture/hay. Other than that, TUBS are for CONVENIENCE. They have a mineral tub. It has equal to ?? 2-4 bags of mineral (nephew knows exactly) and it costs a whole lot more than if you purchased the actual loose mineral in a bag.
I highly recommend the BioZyme / VitaFerm products. All of BioZyme products contain Amaferm which is a prebiotic and it enhances digestibility. So, whatever they eat, they are able to utilize it better.
Because of the product being so recommended on these boards, I researched trying to buy it. Only had 1 feed store willing to order it. Cost an arm and a leg from them. Nephew became a dealer so we could get what we wanted. It sells itself. Our retired vet is buying it by the pallet. Started using it because of the performance of my cattle.
As far as the protein tubs, they are probably better than most brands - but all brands are a waste of money --- unless you have pasture/hay that is really pizz poor and you need to balance it with protein so they can utilize the pasture/hay. Other than that, TUBS are for CONVENIENCE. They have a mineral tub. It has equal to ?? 2-4 bags of mineral (nephew knows exactly) and it costs a whole lot more than if you purchased the actual loose mineral in a bag.
I highly recommend the BioZyme / VitaFerm products. All of BioZyme products contain Amaferm which is a prebiotic and it enhances digestibility. So, whatever they eat, they are able to utilize it better.
Because of the product being so recommended on these boards, I researched trying to buy it. Only had 1 feed store willing to order it. Cost an arm and a leg from them. Nephew became a dealer so we could get what we wanted. It sells itself. Our retired vet is buying it by the pallet. Started using it because of the performance of my cattle.
I'm a vitaferm user. I don't have and hard data but it's one of the few minerals I can actually get the cattle to consume regularly and it doesn't go to junk when it gets wet. The cattle still go for it.
Last year I tried 2 tubs before breeding a couple heifers. They are crazy expensive and I dint really see any benefits over keeping the loose out.
I have to order it from our local co-op. Depending on when I order the longest I have waited is 1 week. They tried to keep it in stock but people just want cheap.
Last year I tried 2 tubs before breeding a couple heifers. They are crazy expensive and I dint really see any benefits over keeping the loose out.
I have to order it from our local co-op. Depending on when I order the longest I have waited is 1 week. They tried to keep it in stock but people just want cheap.
There was a former member here that had a scientific background. He was a big fan of Vitaferm. After doing his research, he said that Vitaferm was more bioavailable than most other minerals.
Like I mentioned earlier we use Concept Aid 5S loose mineral and stress tubs. We tried the Heat. It for us here we saw no benefit. They do have a product called Conserve that many are using and say it works after they pull bull and up to 60 days before breeding and then go back to the Concept Aid 5S. May try it next year. Reduces costs some. In a normal year usage will be around recommended levels. We had a wee period this year and the grass grew fast. Can't keep enough salt and minerals out in certain pastures on certain types of grass. With the Amaferm we never feed bloat blocks on wheat or alfalfa and never had any issues. It has worked well for us. Have had an AI tech said he usually sees better conception where it is used. We consistently see a 95% weaned calf crop since using it. Know every breeder will see a different result due to environment, forage type and management.
Jeanne I fully understand. In the past I used heat in the summer. The last 2 years we have just stayed on Concept Aid. My closest dealer doesn't carry the Conserve. Plan to use it next year if I can find it.
I don't swap around either. I run the 5s year round.
A lot of people feed it around here. But the man that sells it does not know his product. He told me all minerals and trace minerals were chelated. I got an empty bag from him and brought it home and went over all the ingredients. It has Copper Amino Acid Chelate, and Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, and those are the only two Chelated products in the bag. It has a few things that my mineral does not have, and several things that are lower in value. But the #1 ingredient is Distillers grain. Lower in calcium, than my mineral. Lower in Copper, lower in Selenium. Higher in Zinc. And has a higher Vitamin content.
But my feed has a higher vitamin content so I am already covered. I have my feed mixed to a high Rumensin content to feed less as I have good hay.
It does have a probiotic, but does not have Rumensin which allows the absorption of Magnesium Oxide 25% more available to the cattle. I feed Rumensin, so that also cuts the Magnesium Sulfate down by 15% as it hurts the absorption of the sulfate , but I read that Sulfur interferes with the digestion of fiber and mineral absorption of lactating cattle . I do have a cows and calves. So, the sulfate in the mineral is working against me.
It is a better mineral than some that I have seen, but I cannot fix something that is not broke. No calving issues, no problems or illnesses in forever. This mineral cannot get wet. For $49 a bag, it should be able to get wet. But I keep my mineral in a protected feeder, but still rain will blow in it and Distillers grains will spoil and ruin.
The Advertisement for this product is :
"Listen to What your Cattle Tell you they Need"
My cattle do love that Distiller's grain, I will agree. I was so glad to get them off of it as it was really messing their feet up. But more so than the distiller's grain, my cows keep telling me they need to get over in the neighbors newly sewn wheat field. I just keep telling them no on that one too.
But my feed has a higher vitamin content so I am already covered. I have my feed mixed to a high Rumensin content to feed less as I have good hay.
It does have a probiotic, but does not have Rumensin which allows the absorption of Magnesium Oxide 25% more available to the cattle. I feed Rumensin, so that also cuts the Magnesium Sulfate down by 15% as it hurts the absorption of the sulfate , but I read that Sulfur interferes with the digestion of fiber and mineral absorption of lactating cattle . I do have a cows and calves. So, the sulfate in the mineral is working against me.
It is a better mineral than some that I have seen, but I cannot fix something that is not broke. No calving issues, no problems or illnesses in forever. This mineral cannot get wet. For $49 a bag, it should be able to get wet. But I keep my mineral in a protected feeder, but still rain will blow in it and Distillers grains will spoil and ruin.
The Advertisement for this product is :
"Listen to What your Cattle Tell you they Need"
My cattle do love that Distiller's grain, I will agree. I was so glad to get them off of it as it was really messing their feet up. But more so than the distiller's grain, my cows keep telling me they need to get over in the neighbors newly sewn wheat field. I just keep telling them no on that one too.
redcowsrule33
Well-known member
Only three chelates, the rest are oxides/sulfates and in greater quantities than the chelates.
Chuck like most everything I do I researched minerals and different brands for a long time and read and listened to several with expertise and experience in minerals and their use. One told me that is is only economically beneficial to chelate certain minerals. If yours works for you by all means use it. Like I stated in a previous post we have seen our best results using it. Consistently see a weaned calf crop of95% or above. I've been told by several that the Amaferm is a key ingredient in ithat makes a difference. I know I can use the same mineral for everything and it covers bloat and all. We don't pay $49.00 a bag either. Have you ever used it. Real world results is what counts.
Silver
Well-known member
I only see one oxide listed. Chelates really aren't necessary unless you have a problem I've been told. Sulfates get the job done done much better than rocks (oxides)
Now to discuss the mineral.... He gave me an empty bag of VitaFerm Concept Aid 5/5. I told him I wanted to feed my breeding stock and the best mineral he carried. I was mostly upset by the fact it being Distillers grain base. My cows think Distillers grain is candy. But my cows also take my other mineral down at a decent rate too. I like the smell of my other mineral and it has a slight lemon taste, but has salt. I wish I could make my own mineral, but you have to pick and choose to what conditions are in your area and then balance it out with feed additives as well.
We are a little low in Selenium in the area, and I have split my Angus herd up with my two Grandsons, as my husband passed away in 2022, and I help them, as they are each on part of the farms. Now I play with some cows that I always loved, and it is the Piedmontese. I think it was Slick that I used to drive crazy with his cattle. I need to see if he is still on here. But they need a higher selenium level because of the lack of the myostatin gene. It helps with birthing issues, but they are born small, but sometimes these cows will carry a calf longer in gestation and when they do, it can make the calf grow larger. So as of right now, I have two bred cows that I am not sure of the due date. (not good) They will calve in May. Then there is a 7 month old heifer. Tuesday I go pick up two more calves that are 3/4 Piedmontese 1/4 Jersey, that is where I want to hold this breed. Jersey meat is a sweet meat, and the milking ability of the cow. Then the Jersey will reduce the size of the calf as well. Once I get some calves on the ground and get a herd established, I will hopefully with the help of my Grandsons sell to the public. And we are going to sell them the same price as Angus beef. I told them if they can get people in this area to buy freezer beef from them, then be fair because no one can afford to feed their family those crazy high prices, after all, they are just cattle. It is beef. They are expensive in the beginning, but once we get the herd going, the cost will be more and profit a little less at the front, but overcome it in the long run. I can't go buy a whole herd, but they can work into it after I am gone. And too, after losing Kevin, it gives me something new to look forward to. I had sort of sat down for a short while until I was able to obtain these cows.
And I research things to death. As I stated before, the Dairy Industry goes all out in researching how to feed their cattle. What products gets the best results for the cattle. Although the product is milk, the cattle use the same nutrients. I know a milk cow and her calcium when she calves is very closely guarded. But still, I can read what they search out. These two articles I think have a lot of merit even though it is directed at the Dairy Industry. We can learn from it as beef producers.
We are a little low in Selenium in the area, and I have split my Angus herd up with my two Grandsons, as my husband passed away in 2022, and I help them, as they are each on part of the farms. Now I play with some cows that I always loved, and it is the Piedmontese. I think it was Slick that I used to drive crazy with his cattle. I need to see if he is still on here. But they need a higher selenium level because of the lack of the myostatin gene. It helps with birthing issues, but they are born small, but sometimes these cows will carry a calf longer in gestation and when they do, it can make the calf grow larger. So as of right now, I have two bred cows that I am not sure of the due date. (not good) They will calve in May. Then there is a 7 month old heifer. Tuesday I go pick up two more calves that are 3/4 Piedmontese 1/4 Jersey, that is where I want to hold this breed. Jersey meat is a sweet meat, and the milking ability of the cow. Then the Jersey will reduce the size of the calf as well. Once I get some calves on the ground and get a herd established, I will hopefully with the help of my Grandsons sell to the public. And we are going to sell them the same price as Angus beef. I told them if they can get people in this area to buy freezer beef from them, then be fair because no one can afford to feed their family those crazy high prices, after all, they are just cattle. It is beef. They are expensive in the beginning, but once we get the herd going, the cost will be more and profit a little less at the front, but overcome it in the long run. I can't go buy a whole herd, but they can work into it after I am gone. And too, after losing Kevin, it gives me something new to look forward to. I had sort of sat down for a short while until I was able to obtain these cows.
And I research things to death. As I stated before, the Dairy Industry goes all out in researching how to feed their cattle. What products gets the best results for the cattle. Although the product is milk, the cattle use the same nutrients. I know a milk cow and her calcium when she calves is very closely guarded. But still, I can read what they search out. These two articles I think have a lot of merit even though it is directed at the Dairy Industry. We can learn from it as beef producers.
Silver, I agree, myself I would take a sulfate over an oxide in my vitamins. But in a lactating cow feeding a calf according to the Dairy studies, it puts the brakes on aiding in digestion of fiber. So, they say it is costly to feed a sulfate to a cow that provides milk. I decided that I want my mama cow to give all the milk she can to her calf, so I will with hold off on the sulfates. But Oxide is kicked up when fed Rumesin.
As a matter of fact on the oxides, I was taking a Magnesium oxide supplement. Each morning after I took my medicine I felt nauseous and I dreaded taking the pills. Then I read where it said if you took Magnesium oxide that it would make you sick at your stomach. BINGO!! I changed my source of Magnesium to Magnesium Citrate, and I have not had an upset stomach since then. And when I started looking into the minerals and found that was the same mineral they put in the cattle mix, I thought, this is not good. So I tried to figure it out as Magnesium controls the so much of the body processes. I saw the Magnesium sulfate, and then found out it put the brakes on fiber digestion, and I did not want that. Crazy! But to feed the oxide, you need to add Rumensin as you get a break down of the mineral and up the abosption rate by 25% more. What's not to love there. Rumensin cost about 3-4 cents a day to feed. Rumensin aids in the breakdown of so much feed and it takes less to maintain the body weights you desire.
I was studying those Calcium boluses they give to dairy cattle and what all they contained to get the cow back on her feet as she went into a "Milk Fever" mode after calving. I wanted to learn what each additive did to help turn her around and see what could be fed before the cow ever got to that stage. Magnesium was one of the minerals in that tablet, and I reached out why it was in there. They have products that I cannot get my hands on in this area such as Soychlor, and there was one other that I did not check into before I found out that my Dairy cow situation was not going to happen as the herd from out of state probably had disease in it and I did not want to mix it with my closed herd. I found out when I pushed for health papers and vaccinations, and they ran backwards on me. Red Flag.
I was planning on bringing in a nurse cow and was preparing to take care of her and have what I needed. But for some strange unknown reason, it is impossible in my area to get a healthy Jersey cow. I know of one Dairy that I have asked for a cow and one that they may be feeding and her milk volume does to meet their requirements they had hoped. This dairy is clean as it can be, and run a clean herd. All I can do is wait.
And just keep reading and posting what I read. Ha-ha!!
As a matter of fact on the oxides, I was taking a Magnesium oxide supplement. Each morning after I took my medicine I felt nauseous and I dreaded taking the pills. Then I read where it said if you took Magnesium oxide that it would make you sick at your stomach. BINGO!! I changed my source of Magnesium to Magnesium Citrate, and I have not had an upset stomach since then. And when I started looking into the minerals and found that was the same mineral they put in the cattle mix, I thought, this is not good. So I tried to figure it out as Magnesium controls the so much of the body processes. I saw the Magnesium sulfate, and then found out it put the brakes on fiber digestion, and I did not want that. Crazy! But to feed the oxide, you need to add Rumensin as you get a break down of the mineral and up the abosption rate by 25% more. What's not to love there. Rumensin cost about 3-4 cents a day to feed. Rumensin aids in the breakdown of so much feed and it takes less to maintain the body weights you desire.
I was studying those Calcium boluses they give to dairy cattle and what all they contained to get the cow back on her feet as she went into a "Milk Fever" mode after calving. I wanted to learn what each additive did to help turn her around and see what could be fed before the cow ever got to that stage. Magnesium was one of the minerals in that tablet, and I reached out why it was in there. They have products that I cannot get my hands on in this area such as Soychlor, and there was one other that I did not check into before I found out that my Dairy cow situation was not going to happen as the herd from out of state probably had disease in it and I did not want to mix it with my closed herd. I found out when I pushed for health papers and vaccinations, and they ran backwards on me. Red Flag.
I was planning on bringing in a nurse cow and was preparing to take care of her and have what I needed. But for some strange unknown reason, it is impossible in my area to get a healthy Jersey cow. I know of one Dairy that I have asked for a cow and one that they may be feeding and her milk volume does to meet their requirements they had hoped. This dairy is clean as it can be, and run a clean herd. All I can do is wait.
And just keep reading and posting what I read. Ha-ha!!
elkwc, I agree that Vitaferm is a better mineral than I have seen in so many. I have read so many bags and thought, everything is so below par, why not go ahead and put in the bag what the cattle need!! But so many give a teaspoon when a Tablespoon is needed. I will tell you that at times I have been known to change my mind and my ways. I don't feel that I am so closed minded that I may switch to it one day. But while I am researching at the moment, I like what I am using better. I would like to lose the distillers grain. I do like the Pro Biotics, but I like my Rumensin better. Distillers Grain, Once that gets wet, it can mold and get nasty. And moisture from a rainy misty day is going to get into that feeder on top of that bag of $49.00 mineral. I sent my flat feeder with the 3 compartments to the other farm with the Angus. Then I have purchased an Ameri-Ag mineral feeder that I like a lot. I love the little fly strips that hang down as they feed in the summer time and it totally keeps the flies off their eyes. Not even one fly I have seen. I found a source in Kentucky for this at Odom's Livestock Supply at Mayfield Ky. They have the best price by far. The flat feeder I used was good about keeping the mineral dry, but the small calves would not lift that heavy flap up to get it out. I would go by and get a handful and put it on the lid trying to get them to investigate it all the time. They got up in age before they would root the top up, but they wanted that mineral badly or shall I say the salt. But this Ameri-Ag they just stick their head in it. Looks something like a Sesame Street character. But when the rain becomes misty and the winds blow around, it can gain moisture across the top, but it never gets really what I call wet. But distillers cannot handle even getting a fine mist. Or did not do well when I fed it.
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Chuckle these posts prove what works best for one breeder doesn't work as well for another breeder. I have used several different types. The pan type that sits flat on the ground, usually divided into 3 sections and has a flat round piece of rubber, what I call the whirlybird bird type that rotates with the wind, several homemade abs I have one like you pictured. Have removed more wet, soaked mineral out of it than all the others combined. And only use it when I have too. Still prefer the old whirlybird bird types made out of sheet metal. They last for years. I dug one out of a junk pile. Put 5-6 dollars of repairs in it 9 years ago and still working.
I always say use what works best for you. I also have learned to dip my toes before jumping in. Looking at trying the Riomax tubs in 1-2 pastures. Will see how they work.
simme
Old Dumb Guy
Unfortunately, Slick passed 2 years ago.
Lost another great guy
Just got FB post from his daughter that Slick (Dennis) passed away this morning.
www.cattletoday.com
tcolvin
Well-known member
Closest dealer I have found to me is 52 miles from me.
elkwc, I agree on the mineral feeder deal. Really, the best feeder was the one that sat on the ground with the big flat piece of rubber that the older cows would flip up and get mineral out of. But that was what I called an "adult" feeder. Ha-ha!! Not for kids. I wanted my calves to have that mineral as badly as I did the cows and the bull.
I have not found the perfect mineral feeder beause it must be set outside. The cookie monster, American-Ag feeder is working with the calves real well. I think my favorite part are the fly strips as it was the most efficient to keeping flies out of the calves and cows eyes. I want the mineral feeder with all the bells and whistles. The calves would not lift the flap up on the other one that I spoke about, that had a fly dope container on top that I kept filled. I would see the mineral oil across their forehead and it worked real well. Those flaps hanging down look like they are sticking their head into a sharks mouth. Not sure if any of them have ever seen a picture of a shark, so I took my chances.
I have not tried the one that sits on legs like the weather vane that you speak of because I would go by my neighbors field, and it would be laying on it's side. So, that stuck in my mind. Now I know there are probably as many different models of those, and they could not have had the legs long enough or spaced just right that the bull could push it over. So I would need to investigate that situation.
I suppose the best mineral feeder would to have it under roof. That is another period of life for me, like in my next life. To build a structure where they can go inside to eat mineral. Then they would prove to show me that I did not get it quite right.
I have not found the perfect mineral feeder beause it must be set outside. The cookie monster, American-Ag feeder is working with the calves real well. I think my favorite part are the fly strips as it was the most efficient to keeping flies out of the calves and cows eyes. I want the mineral feeder with all the bells and whistles. The calves would not lift the flap up on the other one that I spoke about, that had a fly dope container on top that I kept filled. I would see the mineral oil across their forehead and it worked real well. Those flaps hanging down look like they are sticking their head into a sharks mouth. Not sure if any of them have ever seen a picture of a shark, so I took my chances.
I have not tried the one that sits on legs like the weather vane that you speak of because I would go by my neighbors field, and it would be laying on it's side. So, that stuck in my mind. Now I know there are probably as many different models of those, and they could not have had the legs long enough or spaced just right that the bull could push it over. So I would need to investigate that situation.
I suppose the best mineral feeder would to have it under roof. That is another period of life for me, like in my next life. To build a structure where they can go inside to eat mineral. Then they would prove to show me that I did not get it quite right.
