Local Hereford Influence Sale Results

[rwtherefords]

Frankie, you may refuse to admit that the nomenclature for CAB and CHB is misleading to the consumer, but it is. Let's try something. Let's substitute a couple of words and see how this all works out. And, I'll use CHB so maybe you'll be able to listen.

Certified Hereford Beef. Now let's substitute the word "Auto" for Hereford, and "Mechanic" for beef. So, now we have a Certified Auto Mechanic.

But let's assume that some slick operator got the sanctioning body for the industry to ONLY require that they be a MECHANIC and that they had to be a VERY GOOD one, in order to be labeled a Certified Auto Mechanic.

I think that you, as a consumer, would be surprised (maybe even upset) if the Certified Auto Mechanic working on your car at the local garage wasn't required to have any automotive experience at all. See, he was a VERY GOOD aviation MECHANIC, and because of that, he meets the "requirements" to be called a Certified Auto Mechanic. But, what about the words "Certified Auto" in the label you ask. Well, that doesn't really matter since the sanctioning body defined the label in such a way that no automotive experience was required. He is a mechanic, and a very excellent one.

Regardless of the slick wording in legal definitions, words have "meaning" to the general public. Sooner or later, someone will challenge it in the legal forum.

 

[Frankie]

The bottom line is, anyone who is buying any Beef labeled CAB or CHB, is being misled. It's like buying a 12 oz. can of Coke, and finding out it's 49% Pepsi. Just because an animal grades out at 51% Black Hided, should that allow it to be marketed as a Certified whole product? Same goes for CHB or any other breed. Sell Apples as Apples, Peaches as Peaches. Most people I've ever talked to that buy CAB, are thinking they just bought a 100% cut of purebred Aberdeen Angus. They buy it because they believe what the ad said, or what the menu said.

So you read minds now and know what people are thinking when they buy CAB? I'd guess I've talked to as many people about CAB as you have and, so far, not a one of them has indicated they felt mislead. They buy CAB because they can depend on the quality and consistency of the meat.

 

[Frankie]

Frankie, you may refuse to admit that the nomenclature for CAB and CHB is misleading to the consumer, but it is. Let's try something. Let's substitute a couple of words and see how this all works out. And, I'll use CHB so maybe you'll be able to listen.

I refuse to admit it because it's not true.

Certified Hereford Beef. Now let's substitute the word "Auto" for Hereford, and "Mechanic" for beef. So, now we have a Certified Auto Mechanic.

But let's assume that some slick operator got the sanctioning body for the industry to ONLY require that they be a MECHANIC and that they had to be a VERY GOOD one, in order to be labeled a Certified Auto Mechanic.

I think that you, as a consumer, would be surprised (maybe even upset) if the Certified Auto Mechanic working on your car at the local garage wasn't required to have any automotive experience at all. See, he was a VERY GOOD aviation MECHANIC, and because of that, he meets the "requirements" to be called a Certified Auto Mechanic. But, what about the words "Certified Auto" in the label you ask. Well, that doesn't really matter since the sanctioning body defined the label in such a way that no automotive experience was required. He is a mechanic, and a very excellent one.

First, why would I care if he's an automotive mechanic or an aviation mechanic if he fixes my car? That seems to be the opinion of most people who buy CAB: they like it and come back and buy it again. Secondly, no government agency should certify him if he doesn't meet the criteria for a "Certified Auto Mechanic." I'll bold this since you seem to ignore it: beef has to meet USDA approved specifications to be sold as CAB. You don't like it, that's fine. But that doesn't make it wrong.

Regardless of the slick wording in legal definitions, words have "meaning" to the general public. Sooner or later, someone will challenge it in the legal forum.

Words do have meaning. CAB has a good reputation with the consumer. I can argue all day that it's beef certified by the USDA (and the Angus Assn) to meet a certain criteria.

 

[Crowderfarms]

The bottom line is, anyone who is buying any Beef labeled CAB or CHB, is being misled. It's like buying a 12 oz. can of Coke, and finding out it's 49% Pepsi. Just because an animal grades out at 51% Black Hided, should that allow it to be marketed as a Certified whole product? Same goes for CHB or any other breed. Sell Apples as Apples, Peaches as Peaches. Most people I've ever talked to that buy CAB, are thinking they just bought a 100% cut of purebred Aberdeen Angus. They buy it because they believe what the ad said, or what the menu said.

So you read minds now and know what people are thinking when they buy CAB? I'd guess I've talked to as many people about CAB as you have and, so far, not a one of them has indicated they felt mislead. They buy CAB because they can depend on the quality and consistency of the meat.

I dropped my Crystal Ball and it's been hell finding a new one.To be 100% honest, I have never tried to sway a consumer to buy or not to buy. I feel as long as they are buying Beef, they are doing us all some justice.Half the people probably dont care one Iota about what color Cattle that steak came from, as long as it's quality.I'm just stating, as a whole the CAB program is a farce.And the promoters of it are laughing all the way to the bank. IF the end product was from purebred herds, and only from these type animals, would I feel that the consumer was justly getting his nickels worth for paying extra for CAB.As I type, I'm watching a bunch of my Black girls coming up the hill, IF I was to slaughter them all tomorrow, would I be warranted to have them all get marketed as CAB? Yes, I'll admit, they may bring me some more money at the sale cause they're black, but are they really better tasting than some of my Hereford cattle, or Charolais,Simmentals, or my Bald Face cattle? I've never been able to tell the difference, and I'll bet you, "Joe Consumer" can't either.BUT he pays more for what is in the CAB folks mind a superior product.

 

[Campground Cattle]

Careful Crowder Reverand Frankie is at the pulpit.

 

[Frankie]

I'm just stating, as a whole the CAB program is a farce.And the promoters of it are laughing all the way to the bank. IF the end product was from purebred herds, and only from these type animals, would I feel that the consumer was justly getting his nickels worth for paying extra for CAB.

There's absolutely nothing in the USDA-approved CAB specifications that call for beef certified as CAB to be purebred Angus. What grounds do you have to insist that if it doesn't meet your criteria, it's a "farce."

As I type, I'm watching a bunch of my Black girls coming up the hill, IF I was to slaughter them all tomorrow, would I be warranted to have them all get marketed as CAB?

Your cows can only be marketed as CAB if they meet the USDA approved specifications.

Yes, I'll admit, they may bring me some more money at the sale cause they're black, but are they really better tasting than some of my Hereford cattle, or Charolais,Simmentals, or my Bald Face cattle? I've never been able to tell the difference, and I'll bet you, "Joe Consumer" can't either.BUT he pays more for what is in the CAB folks mind a superior product.

I wouldn't claim that black cattle taste better than any other colored cattle. The Angus Assn started CAB when the USDA lowered grading standards. That's about the time beef demand started dropping off. It seems to me that beef demand started picking up about the time CAB demand took off.

What makes CAB a suprior product is that it's based on quality grade. Just being black doesn't qualify for CAB. In fact, most black cattle can't qualify as CAB. I can come up with several Angus bulls whose EPDs indicate they don't marble. There are reports that consumers prefer higher quality grade beef. CAB is higher quality grade than "Choice." There are reports that consumers prefer tender beef. We know that higher quality grade beef is more likely to be tender.

 

[Crowderfarms]

That's right. The Angus association started CAB. Why? To boost sales? And that gives them the right to call any 51% Black hided animal Certified Angus? How bout you try to sell me a load of Black Hided Cattle and dare call them Registered Angus.(without the papers) It's the same analogy.

 

[NCSU Maverick]

does black hided mean "black haired" or would a black-hided smokey qualify as black hided?

 

[MikeC]

does black hided mean "black haired" or would a black-hided smokey qualify as black hided?

I have had 1/2 Charolais X 1/2 Brangus calves qualify for CAB but opted for the Swift Premium Beef which paid a higher premium at that time. (Also upper 2/3 choice)

 

[Crowderfarms]

does black hided mean "black haired" or would a black-hided smokey qualify as black hided?

The Angus Folks would be happy to have that Smokey color on their team.

 

[NCSU Maverick]

I have had 1/2 Charolais X 1/2 Brangus calves qualify for CAB but opted for the Swift Premium Beef which paid a higher premium at that time. (Also upper 2/3 choice)

so black hided means "hide" and not necessarily "hair"?

 

[Crowderfarms]

I have had 1/2 Charolais X 1/2 Brangus calves qualify for CAB but opted for the Swift Premium Beef which paid a higher premium at that time. (Also upper 2/3 choice)

so black hided means "hide" and not necessarily "hair"?

That's the way I've always understood it to be.

 

[NCSU Maverick]

well thats what I had always assumed, but ive learned what assuming does

 

[Crowderfarms]

well thats what I had always assumed, but ive learned what assuming does

When it comes to the CAB, it's an easy assumption. I don't dislike Angus, I have quite a few. I just dont go along with the marketing strategies. A better name would be CCB- Certified Crossbred Beef. The Angus Association has not done a thing for me, I go with Cattle that sell good in this part of the Country, and more than anything-Quality.

 

[Frankie]

That's right. The Angus association started CAB. Why? To boost sales?

Yes, to boost sales of Registered Angus bulls.

And that gives them the right to call any 51% Black hided animal Certified Angus?

No, you keep ignoring the fact, and I'll bold it for you: no animal of any color is sold as CAB unless it meets the USDA approved CAB specifications.

How bout you try to sell me a load of Black Hided Cattle and dare call them Registered Angus.(without the papers) It's the same analogy.

It is much the same. To receive registration papers, an animal must meet certain criteria. If not, no papers. To be CAB, the animal and the meat it produces must meet USDA certified criteria. If it doesn't meet the requirements, no CAB.

I understand exactly what you're saying. I just disagree with it. Just because you don't agree with the USDA requirements for CAB beef doesn't make the requirements wrong.

 

[Crowderfarms]

That's right. The Angus association started CAB. Why? To boost sales?

Yes, to boost sales of Registered Angus bulls.

And that gives them the right to call any 51% Black hided animal Certified Angus?

No, you keep ignoring the fact, and I'll bold it for you: no animal of any color is sold as CAB unless it meets the USDA approved CAB specifications.

How bout you try to sell me a load of Black Hided Cattle and dare call them Registered Angus.(without the papers) It's the same analogy.

It is much the same. To receive registration papers, an animal must meet certain criteria. If not, no papers. To be CAB, the animal and the meat it produces must meet USDA certified criteria. If it doesn't meet the requirements, no CAB.

I understand exactly what you're saying. I just disagree with it. Just because you don't agree with the USDA requirements for CAB beef doesn't make the requirements wrong.

You think I just fell off the Turnip Truck? You're wrong. Do you actually think the USDA, even though they may directing this so called "Criteria" is actually monitoring what is CAB and what is not? I hardly doubt it. Sounds like something from Willy Wonka and the Chocolate factory standards. I'm just saying as I have before, this program is a bunch of Smoke and Mirrors. It has more effect on patrons of fast food joints, and restaurants.Frankie, I can understand your point of view as well, but I sure dont go along with it.

 

[Scotty]

Sounds to me like a bunch of jeleous people who did not get in on the goods early. Evry one now days has branded beef. Are we going to get Nolan Ryan for his beefmaster program. No, it has help the sale of beefmaster cattle. CAB was set out to help Angus breeders have a better market and a larger customer base. Misleading, maybe. Split hairs all night long if you want. You either like Angus cattle or you don't. Same for me and Charolais. Others loves Charolais and is make money off them, I love Angus and am making money. Whats the problem? To each their own.


Scotty

 

[Frankie]

You think I just fell off the Turnip Truck? You're wrong. Do you actually think the USDA, even though they may directing this so called "Criteria" is actually monitoring what is CAB and what is not? I hardly doubt it. Sounds like something from Willy Wonka and the Chocolate factory standards. I'm just saying as I have before, this program is a bunch of Smoke and Mirrors. It has more effect on patrons of fast food joints, and restaurants.Frankie, I can understand your point of view as well, but I sure dont go along with it.

Live and learn. It's not my point of view. The USDA does monitor CAB.

"3.2 Phenotype. Three options are available to ensure that live animals comply with the specified requirements. They are (1) continuous USDA supervision, (2) ante-mortem lot inspection, and (3) program monitoring. Under the first two options USDA personnel shall certify that the animals meet the specified requirements prior to slaughter. Procedures for these two options shall be developed on an individual plant basis and shall be approved by the local Meat Grading and Certification Branch (MGCB) area office. Under option 3, the procedures described in 3.2.1 shall be followed.
3.2.1 Program Monitoring Procedures - Trained employees of the slaughter plant conducting the program shall identify the carcasses of cattle that meet the specified requirements with an approved stamp. These employees must display program identification whenever they are performing live animal identification duties. MGCB agents shall conduct unannounced, random checks of these employees= work as shown in Table I. MGCB agents shall observe the work for a period of not less than 2 minutes, nor more than 5 minutes, each time. The MGCB agent shall record any defects shown in Table II during each monitoring period.
TABLE I. MONITORING FREQUENCY
Slaughter Rate
Number of cattle/shift Frequency
of monitoring periods 1/
Up to 500 2
501 - 1,000 4
1,001 - 1,500 6
1,501 - 2,000 8
Over 2,000 10
1/ The MGCB agent shall randomly determine the times of actual observation before the beginning of the slaughter shift based on the plant's expected slaughter rate."

There's more at this link:

http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/certprog/Sc ... ed-GLA.htm

CAB isn't a fly by night operation. It's CERTIFIED by the USDA as meeting the requirements approved by the USDA. It's a legally trademarked item. (Sorry the table didn't copy correctly. But you can see it at the link.)

 

[Crowderfarms]

Sounds to me like a bunch of jeleous people who did not get in on the goods early. Evry one now days has branded beef. Are we going to get Nolan Ryan for his beefmaster program. No, it has help the sale of beefmaster cattle. CAB was set out to help Angus breeders have a better market and a larger customer base. Misleading, maybe. Split hairs all night long if you want. You either like Angus cattle or you don't. Same for me and Charolais. Others loves Charolais and is make money off them, I love Angus and am making money. Whats the problem? To each their own.


Scotty

The last thing I am is jealous. Black Angus is your game? Run like hell with the ball. I've been around cattle since I was born, and I am proud not to be some Hobo that jumped on the "Black" train.I do like Angus cattle, I like others too, that dont have to have some greased up program with square sprockets to push their product.Nolan Ryan is a Gnat in the Urinal compared to CAB. There Aint' no problem. A debate is a debate.

 

[Campground Cattle]

Crowder the irony here is the thread started out about Hereford influenced beef and the Angus people are trying to defend their product go figure.