Local Hereford Influence Sale Results

[Brandonm2]

Its not the Angus cattle it's the Angus breeders that think Angus is the solution for everything. Thank goodness the beef industry has not followed all the Angus hype or it would be as screwed up as the dairy gene pool.
Angus have there place just not in every herd.

I think Angus (red or black) could be and maybe should be used in every commercial herd in this country; but I don't think that should be the ONLY genetics in a commercial herd. Unless you are in the business of selling replacement females, I don't think most commercial herds are well served by straightbreeding (Angus, Herf, Limousin, Charolais, Simmental, Brahman, etc). The crossbred mama cow (if some thought has gone in to her genetics) will outwork and outproduce straightbred mamas of the same frame under the same management conditions year after year.

I Disagree. You'd have to give me a more valid reason for Angus.

Reasons to use Angus.....
1) they are the undisputed masters of the quality grade,
2) they come with the most comprehensive and detailed set of EPDs in the beef industry (giving breeders the most possible information to make decisions),
3) they cross well with almost everything,
4) Angus cross calves are plentiful and mixed at the yard your Angus cross calves make for more uniform loads at the feedlots
5) Angus cows typically milk better than Herfs or Limos
6) bring eye pigment to white faced cattle
7) clean up horns
8) sheer numbers give them tremendous genetic diversity in the breed
9) classic Anguses are easy fleshing easy keeping momas (we both know there are exceptions out there in some new cow families)
10) CAB means there is demand for Angus cross calves.

 

[Brandonm2]

Its not the Angus cattle it's the Angus breeders that think Angus is the solution for everything. Thank goodness the beef industry has not followed all the Angus hype or it would be as screwed up as the dairy gene pool.
Angus have there place just not in every herd.

I think Angus (red or black) could be and maybe should be used in every commercial herd in this country; but I don't think that should be the ONLY genetics in a commercial herd. Unless you are in the business of selling replacement females, I don't think most commercial herds are well served by straightbreeding (Angus, Herf, Limousin, Charolais, Simmental, Brahman, etc). The crossbred mama cow (if some thought has gone in to her genetics) will outwork and outproduce straightbred mamas of the same frame under the same management conditions year after year.

I Disagree. You'd have to give me a more valid reason for Angus.

Reasons to use Angus.....
1) they are the undisputed masters of the quality grade,
2) they come with the most comprehensive and detailed set of EPDs in the beef industry (giving breeders the most possible information to make decisions),
3) they cross well with almost everything,
4) Angus cross calves are plentiful and mixed at the yard your Angus cross calves make for more uniform loads at the feedlots
5) Angus cows typically milk better than Herfs or Limos
6) bring eye pigment to white faced cattle
7) clean up horns
8) sheer numbers give them tremendous genetic diversity in the breed
9) classic Anguses are easy fleshing easy keeping momas (we both know there are exceptions out there in some new cow families)
10) CAB means there is demand for Angus cross calves.

An impressive list. Can I use it in other discussions?

Feel free to borrow anything I post at any time. I have never been paid for anything I have ever written so there is certainly no copyright. I did not mean to stir things up. In fact I originally was making the argument that SOME people were using too much Angus in their cowherds, until the question came up as to why use Angus at all. I find that that is a fairly easy question to answer. The smiley face where my number 8 is supposed to be is an accident from typing too fast before leaving to go to Church.

 

[rwtherefords]

Do you hold CHB to the same standard? The Phenotype
requirement for CHB is much the same as CAB. They have to look like Herefords.

CAB has been on the market for about 30 years and demand continues to grow. I think you're wrong to suggest that consumers don't know what they're getting when they plunk down the extra $$ for CAB.

Did you even read the last paragraph of my last post? I stated that CAB, CHB, and others should all be held to the same standard, 100% whatever breed. If you're going to claim "certified" a certain breed, it chould be 100% that breed.

Have you posed the question I quoted in my prior post to non "cattle people?" If so, you'd know they don't know what they're getting. Maybe you don't really want to know the answer to that question.

 

[Brandonm2]

you put 5 steaks from like QUALITY animals on a plate hot off the grill i would be willing to bet $100 there are not 10 people in 1000 that could idenitify the color of the animal the steaks came from!!! or the sex of the animal either!!!!! by taste alone!!!!

That is a safe bet; but that does not change the marketing. Western Sizzlin made a big deal out of changing to "Black Canyon Angus Beef". I don't think there is ANY difference in the steaks I was buying there from the new steaks; but right now the perception that "Angus" is better fuels sales. Hardees is pushing "Angus" burgers. Heck goat is good in a burger. If anybody thinks Angus tastes any better ground up on a bun next to lettuce, pickles, a tomato, with mustard and ketchup than some wore out dairy cow they are deluded; but IF it moves product why fight it?

 

[rwtherefords]

No one I know who buys CAB seems to be bothered by the fact it's not 50% or 100% Angus. They're willing to pay for the quality they get.

I didn't say the folks I talked to were "bothered." I was stating that they were obviously mislead! That may bother some of the other breed associations, which could lead to the legal action brought up in an earlier post, by someone else.

 

[Brandonm2]

Did you even read the last paragraph of my last post? I stated that CAB, CHB, and others should all be held to the same standard, 100% whatever breed. If you're going to claim "certified" a certain breed, it chould be 100% that breed.

Have you posed the question I quoted in my prior post to non "cattle people?" If so, you'd know they don't know what they're getting. Maybe you don't really want to know the answer to that question.

I don't agree with that at all. That would mean going back to a straightbred cow herd and we would lose a TON of production if we ever did that. A typically black baldie steer can be marketed as either Certified Hereford Beef or Certified Angus Beef (assuming both parents are reg.). You can't tell me that that baldie steer would be a better steak if he was 100% Hereford OR 100% Angus.

 

[Frankie]

No one I know who buys CAB seems to be bothered by the fact it's not 50% or 100% Angus. They're willing to pay for the quality they get.

I didn't say the folks I talked to were "bothered." I was stating that they were obviously mislead! That may bother some of the other breed associations, which could lead to the legal action brought up in an earlier post, by someone else.

No, they were not "mislead." The USDA-approved specifications calls for not one iota of Angus blood to be CAB. The fact that they're black is proof of some Angus influence in the live cattle. The meat sold as CAB meets the specifications. There is no cheating, lying, or misrepresentation in CAB.

You don't like it? That's tough. But just because it doesn't fit your criteria doesn't mean it's wrong.

There is no legal case to be made against CAB or the Angus Assn any more than there's a legal case to be made against Ford for using parts in a Ford truck that were not made in the Ford factory.

 

[Frankie]

Did you even read the last paragraph of my last post? I stated that CAB, CHB, and others should all be held to the same standard, 100% whatever breed. If you're going to claim "certified" a certain breed, it chould be 100% that breed.

Have you posed the question I quoted in my prior post to non "cattle people?" If so, you'd know they don't know what they're getting. Maybe you don't really want to know the answer to that question.

I don't agree with that at all. That would mean going back to a straightbred cow herd and we would lose a TON of production if we ever did that. A typically black baldie steer can be marketed as either Certified Hereford Beef or Certified Angus Beef (assuming both parents are reg.). You can't tell me that that baldie steer would be a better steak if he was 100% Hereford OR 100% Angus.

Neither CHB nor CAB requires either parent to be registered.

 

[rwtherefords]

Did you even read the last paragraph of my last post? I stated that CAB, CHB, and others should all be held to the same standard, 100% whatever breed. If you're going to claim "certified" a certain breed, it chould be 100% that breed.

Have you posed the question I quoted in my prior post to non "cattle people?" If so, you'd know they don't know what they're getting. Maybe you don't really want to know the answer to that question.

I don't agree with that at all. That would mean going back to a straightbred cow herd and we would lose a TON of production if we ever did that. A typically black baldie steer can be marketed as either Certified Hereford Beef or Certified Angus Beef (assuming both parents are reg.). You can't tell me that that baldie steer would be a better steak if he was 100% Hereford OR 100% Angus.

Did I ever claim one steak would be better than another if it were 100% a certain breed? I'm saying that both programs (CAB & CHB) are mis-named! I'm stating that probably the majority of Certified Angus Beef is really Angus Influenced Beef, and the majority of Certified Hereford Beef is probably Hereford Influenced Beef. And, yes, an Angus/Hereford black baldie would still qualify to be sold under either program if they were accurately named Influenced Beef. The implication of certifying a certain breed is that the animal is of that breed. Not a half breed. That's all.

 

[rwtherefords]

Neither CHB nor CAB requires either parent to be registered.

Who said anything about registering????

 

[Frankie]

Did you even read the last paragraph of my last post? I stated that CAB, CHB, and others should all be held to the same standard, 100% whatever breed. If you're going to claim "certified" a certain breed, it chould be 100% that breed.

So you're as quick to tell people who buy and eat CHB that it's not really Hereford as to tell people CAB isn't actually Angus? Good for you.

Have you posed the question I quoted in my prior post to non "cattle people?" If so, you'd know they don't know what they're getting. Maybe you don't really want to know the answer to that question.

Yes. When the holidays roll around and the family comes back to the country, we often discuss beef. They like to go out and see some cows, revisit their childhood playground where I still live. None of them have in any way indicated that they think they're being ripped off when I explain the USDA requirements don't actually require proof of Angus blood in CAB. They're interested in is a good steak and they're willing to pay for it.

I'm not at all scared to ask or answer that question and neither should any other Angus breeder. The Angus Assn put their money where their mouth was when they started CAB. And there wasn't a lot of money in the Assn at that time. It's paid dividends for the breed, Angus breeders and, I think, the beef industry. After CAB finally became successful, dozens of other groups have jumped on the branded beef bandwagon. I'm proud of that. Consumers get a good eating experience that will encourage them to eat more beef when they eat CAB. I'm proud of that, too.

 

[la4angus]

There is no legal case to be made against CAB or the Angus Assn any more than there's a legal case to be made against Ford for using parts in a Ford truck that were not made in the Ford factory.

Frankie, You may be right, but some old gal, somewheres was stupid enough to spill hot coffee on herself, but she was smart enough to collect 70 some thousand $$$$ from McDonalds for burning herself with the hot coffee that she had just bought from McDonalds and drove off with it in her car.. So argue your legal facts all you want, but get some hot shot sheister lawyer and see where the AAA or the AHA will stand when the court battle is over.
Just no one has decided to sue Ford for using parts made by someone else besides Ford Motor Co.

 

[Frankie]

Neither CHB nor CAB requires either parent to be registered.

Who said anything about registering????

Brandonm2

 

[Frankie]

Did you even read the last paragraph of my last post? I stated that CAB, CHB, and others should all be held to the same standard, 100% whatever breed. If you're going to claim "certified" a certain breed, it chould be 100% that breed.

Have you posed the question I quoted in my prior post to non "cattle people?" If so, you'd know they don't know what they're getting. Maybe you don't really want to know the answer to that question.

I don't agree with that at all. That would mean going back to a straightbred cow herd and we would lose a TON of production if we ever did that. A typically black baldie steer can be marketed as either Certified Hereford Beef or Certified Angus Beef (assuming both parents are reg.). You can't tell me that that baldie steer would be a better steak if he was 100% Hereford OR 100% Angus.

Did I ever claim one steak would be better than another if it were 100% a certain breed? I'm saying that both programs (CAB & CHB) are mis-named!

That's your opinion. I disagree.

I'm stating that probably the majority of Certified Angus Beef is really Angus Influenced Beef, and the majority of Certified Hereford Beef is probably Hereford Influenced Beef.

No, the CAB meat sold in the supermarket meets the legal, USDA criteria set out for CAB. It's not "influenced" anything. It's Certified Angus Beef.

And, yes, an Angus/Hereford black baldie would still qualify to be sold under either program if they were accurately named Influenced Beef. The implication of certifying a certain breed is that the animal is of that breed. Not a half breed. That's all.

CAB means the beef is certified by the Angus Assn as meeting a certain criteria. It doesn't say the animal is Angus.

 

[Frankie]

There is no legal case to be made against CAB or the Angus Assn any more than there's a legal case to be made against Ford for using parts in a Ford truck that were not made in the Ford factory.

Frankie, You may be right, but some old gal, somewheres was stupid enough to spill hot coffee on herself, but she was smart enough to collect 70 some thousand $$$$ from McDonalds for burning herself with the hot coffee that she had just bought from McDonalds and drove off with it in her car.. So argue your legal facts all you want, but get some hot shot sheister lawyer and see where the AAA or the AHA will stand when the court battle is over.
Just no one has decided to sue Ford for using parts made by someone else besides Ford Motor Co.

I guess practically anyone can file a lawsuit. But as long as the USDA criteria is met, I don't see any way the Association would lose.

 

[la4angus]

CAB means the beef is certified by the Angus Assn as meeting a certain criteria. It doesn't say the animal is Angus.

Just try and prove that in a court of law against a hot shot sheister lawyer. Look at O.J.. He got off Scott free even though everyone knew he was guilty as hell.

 

[Crowderfarms]

The bottom line is, anyone who is buying any Beef labeled CAB or CHB, is being misled. It's like buying a 12 oz. can of Coke, and finding out it's 49% Pepsi. Just because an animal grades out at 51% Black Hided, should that allow it to be marketed as a Certified whole product? Same goes for CHB or any other breed. Sell Apples as Apples, Peaches as Peaches. Most people I've ever talked to that buy CAB, are thinking they just bought a 100% cut of purebred Aberdeen Angus. They buy it because they believe what the ad said, or what the menu said.

 

[la4angus]

I have not, as yet seen a steer or hfr that is 51% Black Hided.
Have any other of you seen a steer with this coloring. 51% Black Hided???

 

[Crowderfarms]

I have not, as yet seen a steer or hfr that is 51% Black Hided.
Have any other of you seen a steer with this coloring. 51% Black Hided???

LA, correct me if I'm wrong if that is not the criteria for CAB...

 

[la4angus]

I have not, as yet seen a steer or hfr that is 51% Black Hided.
Have any other of you seen a steer with this coloring. 51% Black Hided???

LA, correct me if I'm wrong if that is not the criteria for CAB...

It sure is, and I would like to see just one of them.