How many breeds do we need?

[mtnman]

They look different becuse as you travel lengthwise through the section, the angle changes: however, at any set point in the muscle, they are the same, or within a tiny, miniscule difference. Also, not all butchers cut them exactly the same, so that can make them look like different angle, even though they are not.

If the animals are different enough skeletally, as you suggest, then why ultrasound? If they are that different, then we could just look at the shape of the animal and pick out the ones that have muscle fibers aligned differently. These would be more, or less tender, whatever the case may be. Muscle don't hold animals together, ligaments and tendons do, muscles just allow them to move. Either way, these animals that don't basically look the same, and are not real common in the whole scheme, so if this whole fiber angle thing was linked to that, I don't see any reason to use ultrasound.

Certainly, there might be something to the connectvie tissue argument as suggested by the Alliance, but there is nothing to the fiber angle argument of any consequence.

mtnman

 

[ollie]

I can tell from your posts you have never looked at many ultrasound images. They are very very different form animal to animal. Flat ones, round ones , ones with lots of fat chunks , ones with no fat , ones with lost of connective tissue , ones with out , ones with the grain laying with the muscle very neatly and ones that looks like a tornado went through it. If you don't like the idea that is fine , but if you don't know much about it don't speculate with certainty. Nothing worse than arrogant ignorance.
BTW all the rea images are taken between the 12th and 13th rib .

 

[mtnman]

Well, if we must revela credentials, I have looked at many thousand US images, and I've also slaughtered several thousand head along the way also.

Flat, round, fine flecks of marbling, vs big chunks, all has nothing to do with what we are discussing here.

When US machines are correctly adjsuted, much of the fuzzy stuff (tornados, supposed connective tissue) you are talking about vanishes.

mtnman

 

[ollie]

What software are you using?

 

[greenwillowherefords]

CHB was the first I heard mentioning the continental influence as what drove down customer satisfaction. Say what you like, and no offence to you modern limi breeders, but when they first his Oklahoma, they had a negative impact on the eating experience even in half breeds. I know firsthand.

 

[ollie]

What software are you using?

You were hot to talk Mtn Man till I ask specifics then cat got your tongue. The truth cat maybe?

 

[mtnman]

Actually, no, ollie.

I just got confused on what string we we're chatting on since another string is close to the same topic.

I do not "use" any software myself, since I am not an Ultrasound Technician, however, I have been around a number of them through the years, and try to keep up on the technology, and it's limitation.

Software I have been around is the typical Classic stuff that worked with Classic and Aloka machines, PIE, which was c-rap, Brethour's software, Stouffer's, and some of the early ISU software, Also have seen the BIA software, which is pretty cool.

There were some of the AUP folks that used the AUP software, but some of the best was some of the software developed by a few of the AUP people that wrote their own.

mtnman

 

[la4angus]

CHB was the first I heard mentioning the continental influence as what drove down customer satisfaction. Say what you like, and no offence to you modern limi breeders, but when they first his Oklahoma, they had a negative impact on the eating experience even in half breeds. I know firsthand.

Continental influence, wet aging in cryovac packaging and the USDA lowering the grading standards is the main thing that caused the major impact on the pleasant eating experience of beef.

 

[Scotty]

Sorry I missed this one and skipped some of the threads. I think a cross taht is at leaste 1/2 English, no more than 1/8 Bramer(no such thing, Brahman) and no more than 1/2 continental. I believe I heard a buyer from Capital Cattle Co., and one from Swift agree on this cross. Me I am sticking with the Angus bulls and calm cows. Calm meaning a good one that fits the industry. The same with my Reg. For the most part ones that will make me the greatest deal of money with the least cost.


Scotty

 

[la4angus]

I think a cross taht is at leaste 1/2 English, no more than 1/8 Bramer(no such thing, Brahman) and no more than 1/2 continental. I believe I heard a buyer from Capital Cattle Co., and one from Swift agree on this cross.
Scotty

Just because that one packer buyer and /or a feedyard buyer or background buyer agree on what they like, doesn't mean that it's written in stone that it's the best for the industry.

 

[Subsoil]

I think a cross taht is at leaste 1/2 English, no more than 1/8 Bramer(no such thing, Brahman) and no more than 1/2 continental. I believe I heard a buyer from Capital Cattle Co., and one from Swift agree on this cross.
Scotty

Just because that one packer buyer and /or a feedyard buyer or background buyer agree on what they like, doesn't mean that it's written in stone that it's the best for the industry.

If that's what the buyer's want, that's what the producers will be rewarded for producing. If it's good for the producers, it's good for the industry because without producers, there is no industry.

 

[Subsoil]

Anyone got a link to the Baxter Black poem "The Cow Committee". I think it would fit this forum very well.

I can't remember the whole poem but I remember on line:

"What we need here, are cows with hump
The ability to live on tumbleweeds,
And run from clump to clump"

 

[mtnman]

Believe what you want, la4, I'm not buying your arguments, except of course for possibly the grading standard argument., but even that argument isn't real strong. Part of what chagned demand might have been feeding cattle to lower levels of finish, due to the war on fat, I suppose.

People get hung up saying that the cattle of today don't marble like the cattle of the 60's. That is bunk, the cattle of the 60's marbled because they were fed to an inch of backfat. If todays cattle were fed to an inch of backfat, they would out-marble the cattle of the 60's.

Continental influence didn't have a dang thing to to with it. Not one speck of evidence, other than the opinion offered by breeders of English cattle, they think that Continental influence did it, no one else does, though.



Continental influence didn't even hit it's max until 10 years after the demand started to drop.

Cryo-pack didn't get big until after demand was already dropping.

mtnman

 

[la4angus]

Believe what you want, la4, I'm not buying your arguments,

mtnman, I really don't give a rats @ss what you believe or what arguments you buy.

Continental influence didn't even hit it's max until 10 years after the demand started to drop.

Continental influence didn't have to have hit its peak to cause demand to drop. All a person had to do was buy a steak one time with charolais influence in it and that would be enough to turn that person off of beef and on to pork or chicken for many a meal.

Cryo-pack didn't get big until after demand was already dropping.

Cryovac was around in the mid 70's which is when the demand for beef was falling.

 

[Wewild]

Anybody got a link about the consumer dissatisfaction with lean beef from the 70's?????? I'd like to read it.

 

[Chuck]

"What we need here, are cows with hump
The ability to live on tumbleweeds,
And run from clump to clump"

Whatever pleases you teekles me said Juan from old Mexico. Sorry Subsoil-Your line and that one are all I recall right now. Maybe we can all put it together a line at a time. :lol:

 

[ollie]

Well, if we must revela credentials, I have looked at many thousand US images, and I've also slaughtered several thousand head along the way also. mtnman

Hmmm.Thousands of us images , yet your not a tech. Do you own a lab such as the CUP lab? That would be the only way I can think of where you would see thousands of individual images.You wouldn't slaughter thousands of head of cattle though if you were busy processing images at a lab. Interesting.

 

[mtnman]

If it was Charolais causing decline in demand, then tell me why demand didn't drop sooner, considering Charolais came here in about 1936.


Sniff somewhere else, ollie. If you want to debate, then debate. If you want to cast disparity, and make insinuations do it somewhere else. Last time I checked, you don't have any address or info on your profile either.


mtnman

 

[la4angus]

Last time I checked, you don't have any address or info on your profile either.
mtnman

mtnman, last I checked I don't see any location or other info on your profile either.

 

[mtnman]

That's right, there's not, that's why I said, "either".



mtnman