How do you call the cows

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Bob does not "get" it. Our cattle have a small "flight" zone/comfort zone. I and many others on here, can call my cattle WITHOUT FEEDING them. I just went out to our winter lots, where our 2 and 3 yr old pregnant cows have been. Stood at the gateway and called them out of the field. They followed me down a lane way and I opened another gateway and they passed me to go in a new winter lot.
This is not rocket science. Cattle trust us. I move them a gazillian times in the summer just opening a gate, they follow me down a laneway, into a new paddock. There is NO STRESS.
I totally understand how you move cattle on horseback. Suttle moves puts pressure on the group using their flight zone.
My cattle don't have a flight zone. Most won't let me TOUCH them, but they don't get out of my way when walking around. Heck, I have bus loads of people come for tours and they just walk thru the herd while they graze. NO STRESS.
Bob may be a lecturer - but he does not know how to COMUNICATE with cattle people.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Again, Bob answered a question explaining how he moves cattle on horseback. 90% of us don't use horses. Why are we even giving him time of day? He won't "share his expert knowledge" - he just ducks and dives.
Bob - let's try this again. How does calling cattle STRESS them? Now, remember stop and think about this. How does our calling quiet cattle to move them OR to feed them, STRESS THEM? DO NOT TELL US HOW TO DO IT PROPERLY ON HORSEBACK.
DO NOT TELL US they get upset trying to be first, or there won't be enough feed, or they will get pushing and that stresses them.

 

[gcreekrch]

Again, Bob answered a question explaining how he moves cattle on horseback. 90% of us don't use horses. Why are we even giving him time of day? He won't "share his expert knowledge" - he just ducks and dives.
Bob - let's try this again. How does calling cattle STRESS them? Now, remember stop and think about this. How does our calling quiet cattle to move them OR to feed them, STRESS THEM? DO NOT TELL US HOW TO DO IT PROPERLY ON HORSEBACK.
DO NOT TELL US they get upset trying to be first, or there won't be enough feed, or they will get pushing and that stresses them.

Main reason for not explaining on the internet is Ol' Bob charges for his "superior knowledge".\

That does not take away the fact that he likely does know more than (I will say most) people who own cows. I would bet true cattlemen ( Jeanne and TC and other women here included) could show him things that may work better.

My experience is them that can, do. Them that can't, teach. And them that can't teach, administrate.

 

[gcreekrch]

Again, you nailed it. Anytime I go look at cattle, I tell the owner I am bringing a horse to ride to look at them. Many say " Oh no! They will jump every fence for miles around if you get after them with a horses" I tell them no they won't and ask if they wanna bet on some of the asking price on that? Even if they have had wanna be cowboys running them with a horse, or idiots chasing them with motor vehicles, or siccing damned dogs on the, they won't run from me. I tell them if they know how to ride, I will bring them one too, but they have to listen to me and do exactly as I say. If someone calls me to catch cows for them, and they say others have tried but couldn't, I tell them to let them alone for a month. No one in the pasture with them on a 4 wheeler, truck etc., or on foot, and for sure..no dogs in the pasture. They are surprised when I go into the pasture, and just sit my horse quietly for 30 minutes to an hour, once we see the cows.

You would be hard put to tell me or many others what and how you are going to do things on our own property.

Tell us about being at the neighbour's and nearly running your old horse to death again……….

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

That is for people with calves on feed?

How much improvment in adg can your magical "stockmanship" methods really do for a forage based cow calf operation.

By using your method to move to another pasture vs my "rattling a gate chain" methods what improvement will I see?

Or the 2x or 3x a year I call cows into the corral for vaccinations and such? How much gain will I see with your method?

Bob I'm still waiting for your answer?

You keep talking about pressure and stress around feed. How does any of that apply to a forage based operation?

 

[gcreekrch]

I like the circle, but also think feeding in parallel strips works well too. I do the strips these days because I'm not just feeding, I'm also fertilizing a hay field and I want to fertilize it evenly from corner to corner.

We do that with hay and will move circles often by feeding hay in a different circle to pack the snow first.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

You would be hard put to tell me or many others what and how you are going to do things on our own property.

Tell us about being at the neighbour's and nearly running your old horse to death again……….

Yep if you said you were bringing your horse to my place I would nicely tell you to pi$$ up a rope.

Not that I worry about my cows and horses ( there's a 30yo gelding running with the cows). But I don't want the liability of you on a horse on my place or the risk of your hay burner bringing some unknown pest or parasite onto my farm.

 

[Silver]

I have noticed that people are very similar to dogs and horses in that none are born with the same amount of cow in them. Those that have none or have little can get passable with enough coaching but never get to be top tier. Those that have natural cow sense tend to figure things out naturally with much less input. There are those with exceptional cow in them that are a pleasure to work with.
When it come to people, I wonder if those that took an excessive amount of time to glean learnings from the cow are the ones more likely to feel that they are unique and feel the need to 'spread the word'.

 

[Ky hills]

@Jeanne - Simme Valley explained the situation very precisely in her 2 recent posts.
Bob is not directly or even indirectly addressing anything that we can see.
Most of us do not handle cattle on horseback and the ones that do are most likely very proficient at doing so.
I cannot get anything helpful out of the statements he's made on here nor from the fifteen or so minutes of a video I watched with an open mind. Like I said earlier there may well be some good points hidden in some of those videos, but nothing so much as that would make me want to listen through all of them to find a one liner that may be helpful.
Telling us that calling cattle or feeding cattle is stressful is not logical and not addressing the logic behind the statements is just frustrating.
Obviously anybody with any experience understands the basics that they need adequate bunk space to eat, so that's not it.
We've watched videos of Temple Grandin talking about flight zones and pressure points and facility recommendations and it's direct it's simple and with a few minutes it's easily understood the points that she is making. We definitely use some of her recommendations as well as other BQA recommendations, because it makes sense and is understandable.
Bob's broad vague indirect statements are not relatable. It's like the old expression I'm not takin a pig in a poke, in other words I'm not going to go along with something I don't know what is.

 

[Silver]

We do that with hay and will move circles often by feeding hay in a different circle to pack the snow first.

My feeding tractor has an extremely rough ride so I try to work my way across the field in a manner that has me driving over the fewest frozen turds lol

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

I've tried feeding hay in circles. When the snow gets 4-6' deep it's hard to turn circles. Just going straight requires a lot of sawing the wheel and praying.

Straight lines keeping one set of tires in the packed tracks from the day before works best.

 

[Silver]

I've tried feeding hay in circles. When the snow gets 4-6' deep it's hard to turn circles. Just going straight requires a lot of sawing the wheel and praying.

Straight lines keeping one set of tires in the packed tracks from the day before works best.

I wouldn't mind having snow to pack down right now.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I wouldn't mind having snow to pack down right now.

ME TOO!! Well, I have "maybe" an inch. Does that count?? With unending mud underneath.

 

[Warren Allison]

You would be hard put to tell me or many others what and how you are going to do things on our own property.

Tell us about being at the neighbour's and nearly running your old horse to death again……….

Nope. Not hardly at all. Pretty simple, really. I just say that's how it will be if you want me to see about buying your cattle. If not, I won't waste another minute on you or your cows.

 

[simme]

If I visit someone's property, I try to be friendly, respectful and polite. If someone visits me, I try to be the same. If they are looking at my cattle, they are welcome to be critical of the cattle and ask any questions. I will answer them best as I can. But if they try to dictate the conditions of the visit, unload horses or dogs, tell me what to do, give any indication that they are in charge of the visit, or be disrespectful to me or my family, they will be firmly invited to leave immediately. Arrogance and rudeness are not welcome here. No one has enough money to be exempt from that. Regardless of how important they think they are.

 

[Warren Allison]

Yep if you said you were bringing your horse to my place I would nicely tell you to pi$$ up a rope.

Not that I worry about my cows and horses ( there's a 30yo gelding running with the cows). But I don't want the liability of you on a horse on my place or the risk of your hay burner bringing some unknown pest or parasite onto my farm.

Then it would be a hard pass on your cattle, and you lose a sale. Never had anyone ever tell me that, but if the did? Oh well, there are always better cattle at a better price some place. . Your 2nd paragraph, though, speaks volumes on how much you know about cattle, and horses, so I doubt I'd ever want to see about buying from you.

 

[Warren Allison]

If I visit someone's property, I try to be friendly, respectful and polite. If someone visits me, I try to be the same. If they are looking at my cattle, they are welcome to be critical of the cattle and ask any questions. I will answer them best as I can. But if they try to dictate the conditions of the visit, unload horses or dogs, tell me what to do, give any indication that they are in charge of the visit, or be disrespectful to me or my family, they will be firmly invited to leave immediately. Arrogance and rudeness are not welcome here. No one has enough money to be exempt from that. Regardless of how important they think they are.

Simme, I agree. Are you trying to say that I am not friendly, respectful and polite? I do not just pull up and unload horses or dogs. Good grief! Of course the seller and I have talked about this before I hook up, load up, and drive hours...maybe all day, to look at a herd. They have called me to tell me they have something I might want, or I might have heard about them having something I was interested in and called them. Maybe that a mutual friend told them about me, or me about them. Sometimes I may have got to talking to someone at a sale, about what I am hunting or they may tell me that they have something to sell. They may have sent pics and/or video, that got me interested enough to go see them., but I want to put eyes on them when I can. So, anyhow, If I am interested, I will talk to them about a day and time to come out, and I will say something like " When I go look at a herd, I want to bring my horse and ride among them to look at them, if you don't mind"? And I will usually tell them why, if they ask. Never had anyone tell me no, but if they did, I was just say: "I'm sorry but that's the only way I will do it. But tell you what, ole so and so is looking for some cows like this, I will tell him about yours , give him your number..." Or something to that effect, Does that sound rude or arrogant to you? Now, if I am going to look at a bull or two, then no I won't carry a horses, The owner can put them in a stall, small pen or something. Unless it was you I was looking at getting a bull from. Like I said about @Jeanne - Simme Valley , I would have no problem buying one from you sight unseen.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Warren and it wouldn't bother me one bit to lose a sale to some guy who demands to bring his horse to my property.

What don't I know about cattle and horses? That your trailer could have manure in it that has something my cows don't have? Or your horses hooves could have contaminated manure? Or any number of various illnesses that are transmitted thru manure or bodily fluids (and a fly could bit your horse and then bite my and transmit something). Just because they aren't sick or in distress doesn't mean that they don't have something that I DO NOT WANT on my place.

Sounds like from all your vast experience you don't have a basic understanding of vectors for disease transmission.

Then add on the top that I don't know you from Adam so if you come to my place and get injured or your horse gets injured and you sue me for some stupid thing. No thanks I'm not willing to take that liability.

 

[Brute 23]

That has always been my complaint on Bob. I have no doubt he has experience but he won't have a real conversation with any one on here. He treats us like we are stupid and he has no clue who we are.

 

[kenny thomas]

Just try pushing your wife into doing something or asking her to do it and find out the difference of pressure!

You have to show her who is the boss. Or maybe she already knows.