How do you call the cows

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mwj said:
So are you talking about feeding methods? That is not the topic we were discussing
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Travlr said:
Okay, so you are conscious of their comfort zone. But the above sounds like you are standing in the way of where they want to be and just moving out of their way. As far as you getting them to go in a direction, you are placing yourself in a spot that uses their comfort zone to avoid getting close to you.

Pretty standard stuff so far.

Whether you are calling it pressure or something else it amounts to the same thing.

Why is calling cattle more stressful than a guy (on foot or on a horse) using a cow's comfort zone to get them moving, and to force them to change direction?
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You're pressuring the comfort zone in order to drive them forward. Basically you're stressing them enough to move in the direction you want. I'm putting enough pressure on them to draw attention, while positioning myself so that their release is in the direction I want them to flow.

Imagine you're at a party. All you can eat prime rib and bottomless glass of your favorite beverage, but you're not sure where the buffet is. Do you want someone coming up from in back of you, trying to pressure you into going to the buffet table? Or would you rather have someone draw your attention so that you can see the buffet table and head towards it on your own?

While we're on buffets...Someone invites you to a free, all you can eat buffet of all your favorite foods. Sounds like a good deal, but they have also invited all of the linemen from the NFL and have instructed them to treat you rudely. Chances are you're going to be stressed out enough you'll head to the Taco Bell you spotted across the street.
 
simme said:
If I visit someone's property, I try to be friendly, respectful and polite. If someone visits me, I try to be the same. If they are looking at my cattle, they are welcome to be critical of the cattle and ask any questions. I will answer them best as I can. But if they try to dictate the conditions of the visit, unload horses or dogs, tell me what to do, give any indication that they are in charge of the visit, or be disrespectful to me or my family, they will be firmly invited to leave immediately. Arrogance and rudeness are not welcome here. No one has enough money to be exempt from that. Regardless of how important they think they are.
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It's about the same as someone coming onto your place, ignoring a "NO TRESPASSING: sign... and then saying, "Oh, I didn't think that meant me."
 
Bob Kinford said:
Imagine you're at a party. All you can eat prime rib and bottomless glass of your favorite beverage, but you're not sure where the buffet is. Do you want someone coming up from in back of you, trying to pressure you into going to the buffet table? Or would you rather have someone draw your attention so that you can see the buffet table and head towards it on your own?
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So by opening the gate to a fresh pasture I am drawing their attention and they come on their own...

Guess its not as bad as you make it sound. Hahaha
..
 
Bob Kinford said:
Do you want someone coming up from in back of you, trying to pressure you into going to the buffet table?
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Which is pretty much what you are doing, even if you do it slowly.

Bob Kinford said:
Or would you rather have someone draw your attention so that you can see the buffet table and head towards it on your own?
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Which is pretty much what we do when we call our cows.

Bob Kinford said:
Someone invites you to a free, all you can eat buffet... but they have also invited all of the linemen from the NFL and have instructed them to treat you rudely. Chances are you're going to be stressed out...
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Are you saying that the above example (crowded buffet with jostling) is what is happening when we call cows from pasture to pasture, or into a corral to be vaccinated, or to be fed grain?

Because I don't remember you showing us any examples of how you grain cattle. But don't answer that, because I still want to stick to the moving cattle angle and not worry about moving the goal posts talking about feeding cattle.
 
chevytaHOE5674 said:
So by opening the gate to a fresh pasture I am drawing their attention and they come on their own...

Guess its not as bad as you make it sound. Hahaha
..
Click to expand...
Except you're missing what I call anticipatory stress. My first trip to Mexico they were practicing daily moves. Even though they were leaving back more than half the grass, the cows were so stressed about the move that they were bawling and heading to the gate...and abandoning their calves in the process. By the end of the week, the same 500 cows would continue grazing or ruminating (on less than an acre of the 200 acre paddock) and allow you to ride through them. When you finally approached them to go by you towards the gate they picked up their calves and headed out in single file, through the gate to graze in a 500,000 pounds to the acre density.
 
Bob Kinford said:
You're pressuring the comfort zone in order to drive them forward. Basically you're stressing them enough to move in the direction you want. I'm putting enough pressure on them to draw attention, while positioning myself so that their release is in the direction I want them to flow.

Imagine you're at a party. All you can eat prime rib and bottomless glass of your favorite beverage, but you're not sure where the buffet is. Do you want someone coming up from in back of you, trying to pressure you into going to the buffet table? Or would you rather have someone draw your attention so that you can see the buffet table and head towards it on your own?

While we're on buffets...Someone invites you to a free, all you can eat buffet of all your favorite foods. Sounds like a good deal, but they have also invited all of the linemen from the NFL and have instructed them to treat you rudely. Chances are you're going to be stressed out enough you'll head to the Taco Bell you spotted across the street.
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Once again you just gave an example of some of the most basic cattle handling principles and then proved everyones point with your examples. Nobody has ever driven me to a buffet nor would I take kindly to that. Cordially invite me to dinner anytime you like. I will happily and stress freely go toe to toe with an NFL tackle if the prime rib is any good. I am one of 11 kids, I know it is kinda fun to fight for the last cookie.
 
Interesting.

Guess I got good cows the calves all come with and they eat on their way to the gate, often stop in the gate opening to graze, then continue grazing slowly into the next pasture.

If I want to walk thru the herd for some reason I just lace up my boots and walk. No need to do any dancing around pressuring them this way or that way.
 
Bob Kinford said:
Except you're missing what I call anticipatory stress. My first trip to Mexico they were practicing daily moves. Even though they were leaving back more than half the grass, the cows were so stressed about the move that they were bawling and heading to the gate...and abandoning their calves in the process. By the end of the week, the same 500 cows would continue grazing or ruminating (on less than an acre of the 200 acre paddock) and allow you to ride through them. When you finally approached them to go by you towards the gate they picked up their calves and headed out in single file, through the gate to graze in a 500,000 pounds to the acre density.
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What does that even mean???

And please don't answer that. I'm just pointing out that your gobbledygook doesn't translate well into intelligible English. Let's stick to the moving cattle until we get that out of the way.
 
Travlr said:
Which is pretty much what you are doing, even if you do it slowly.



Which is pretty much what we do when we call our cows.



Are you saying that the above example (crowded buffet with jostling) is what is happening when we call cows from pasture to pasture, or into a corral to be vaccinated, or to be fed grain?

Because I don't remember you showing us any examples of how you grain cattle. But don't answer that, because I still want to stick to the moving cattle angle and not worry about moving the goal posts talking about feeding cattle.
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Out here people generally feed hay or cake on the ground instead of actual grain. It all goes back to how cattle react to being handled. Humans look at normal behavior as being the behavior we've always seen. Cattle scattered across a pasture is "normal" because it's how we've always seen cows, behave.
I was questioning that behavior before I was ten years old, and never accepted the "thats just what cows do" answer. When I finally started having cattle act as a herd, my whole definition of "normal" changed. Now that I have people tease me about loving sheep so much that cattle I take care of act like sheep, people with sheep have their cattle scattered out like cows. The difference is that I'm now handling cows like people used to handle sheep, and people with sheep are calling them to feed like cows.
 
SmokinM said:
Once again you just gave an example of some of the most basic cattle handling principles and then proved everyones point with your examples. Nobody has ever driven me to a buffet nor would I take kindly to that. Cordially invite me to dinner anytime you like. I will happily and stress freely go toe to toe with an NFL tackle if the prime rib is any good. I am one of 11 kids, I know it is kinda fun to fight for the last cookie.
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You're the exception rather than the rule. Most people won't go up against one person weighing 100 pounds more than them, let alone several.
 
chevytaHOE5674 said:
Reading Bob's posts remind me of talking to politician. Ask them a question and they ramble on for 10 minutes in reply with some make believe fairy tale that leaves everyone intelligent scratching their head. Haha
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Ain't THAT the truth...

Canned responses.. and we still vote for them.
 
Bob Kinford said:
Cattle scattered across a pasture is "normal" because it's how we've always seen cows, behave.
I was questioning that behavior before I was ten years old, and never accepted the "thats just what cows do" answer. When I finally started having cattle act as a herd, my whole definition of "normal" changed.
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So if cows are scattered in a pasture that's a problem? Is that something that you would try to correct?
 
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