How do you call the cows

[Bob Kinford]

I read that post and you said, and I quote "I'm sorry but that's the only way I will do it.".

That my friend is the definition of a demand. Hahaha

Thats the definition of "I don't want the job if you're going to keep not catching them in the same way."

 

[Bob Kinford]

So if cows are scattered in a pasture that's a problem? Is that something that you would try to correct?

Yes. Have you ever asked the question as to why they scatter out instead of acting as a herd?

 

[Travlr]

Out here people generally feed hay or cake on the ground instead of actual grain. It all goes back to how cattle react to being handled. Humans look at normal behavior as being the behavior we've always seen. Cattle scattered across a pasture is "normal" because it's how we've always seen cows, behave.
I was questioning that behavior before I was ten years old, and never accepted the "thats just what cows do" answer. When I finally started having cattle act as a herd, my whole definition of "normal" changed. Now that I have people tease me about loving sheep so much that cattle I take care of act like sheep, people with sheep have their cattle scattered out like cows. The difference is that I'm now handling cows like people used to handle sheep, and people with sheep are calling them to feed like cows.

Okay... so now you went where I specifically asked you not to go because you haven't answered the pertinent question and I didn't want you getting side tracked.

I'll ask you one more time and then I'm out... Why is calling cattle more stressful than a guy (on foot or on a horse) using a cow's comfort zone to get them moving, and to force them to change direction?

 

[Warren Allison]

Except you're missing what I call anticipatory stress.

Ok. I think if you would just explain in detail, what anticipatory stress, is that would go a long way toward answering the questions that @Jeanne - Simme Valley and some of the other genuine cattle men/women have been trying to get you to answer,. It won't satisfy the know-nothing trolls...they gonna come back with a rude, smart-a$$ rebuttal ,no matter what you say. If you will look back, they are the ones that say they have watched the videos, yet say you are driving, pushing or chasing the cattle! There is no need in wasting your time responding to them. Apparently there are people from all the way the down into south of Texas, and plumb up into Canada, that have not heard, or do not understand, that old Proverb: "It is better to remain silent and have people think you a fool, than to speak and remove all l doubt"! Now watch and you will see another old saying come true: " Throw a rock into the pack. and the hit dog will holler".

If I were you, I would do my best to explain what you mean by anticipatory stress. Then be done with it.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Yes. Have you ever asked the question as to why they scatter out instead of acting as a herd?

Why do they? And what am I to do to herd them up?

For instance currently I have a group of 70ish cows and calves on 70 acres of frozen tundra. Couple inches of snow and whatever grass is sticking thru. I unroll hay for them and they all eat up. Then once they are full some will walk to the top of the hill and stand in the sun, others will come to the drinker for water, others will go nipple on some grass.

What is their stress and what should I do to change it?

 

[Bob Kinford]

Ain't THAT the truth...

Canned responses.. and we still vote for th

Okay... so now you went where I specifically asked you not to go because you haven't answered the pertinent question and I didn't want you getting side tracked.

I'll ask you one more time and then I'm out... Why is calling cattle more stressful than a guy (on foot or on a horse) using a cow's comfort zone to get them moving, and to force them to change direction?

As I've said, there is a total difference in not only behavior, but also in weight gains and conception rates. You ask me why. I'm asking you if it isn't stress, what is it? If it isn't stress, than why do people who change from calling experience a half a pound a day increase in gains? If it isn't stress, than how can people go from needing a crew to gather a 1,000 acre pasture to just one person going out and making the move by themselves, without calling (and faster than they did with a crew?) Until you can at least admit the possibilities, you won't understand anything I'm trying to say.

 

[Bob Kinford]

Ok. I think if you would just explain in detail, what anticipatory stress, is that would go a long way toward answering the questions that @Jeanne - Simme Valley and some of the other genuine cattle men/women have been trying to get you to answer,. It won't satisfy the know-nothing trolls...they gonna come back with a rude, smart-a$$ rebuttal ,no matter what you say. If you will look back, they are the ones that say they have watched the videos, yet say you are driving, pushing or chasing the cattle! There is no need in wasting your time responding to them. Apparently there are people from all the way the down into south of Texas, and plumb up into Canada, that have not heard, or do not understand, that old Proverb: "It is better to remain silent and have people think you a fool, than to speak and remove all l doubt"! Now watch and you will see another old saying come true: " Throw a rock into the pack. and the hit dog will holler".

If I were you, I would do my best to explain what you mean by anticipatory stress. Then be done with it.

Anticipatory stress is when they are stirred up in advance at something they think is going to happen. Gathering up to the gate waiting to move even though they have plenty of feed where they are is one example.

 

[Travlr]

As I've said, there is a total difference in not only behavior, but also in weight gains and conception rates. You ask me why. I'm asking you if it isn't stress, what is it? If it isn't stress, than why do people who change from calling experience a half a pound a day increase in gains? If it isn't stress, than how can people go from needing a crew to gather a 1,000 acre pasture to just one person going out and making the move by themselves, without calling (and faster than they did with a crew?) Until you can at least admit the possibilities, you won't understand anything I'm trying to say.

Well I tried. I don't see how that is an answer to my question. And I see what you did write as ducking the question more than attempting to provide an intelligible answer. In fact it seems more like moving goal posts so you can avoid answers.

Tell me something Bob. Have you ever spent any time out in a pasture with a bunch of cows, and had them come close up with their calves to investigate you... and then park their calves around you in a nursery... going off to graze while they trust you with their babies? I don't believe stressed cattle do that.

Seems like your ideas are geared toward something entirely different than anything I've needed. I just don't see the value and from what I can see you don't have the ability to communicate how it's valuable. I think, so far, that the people here that call their animals are doing just fine doing it, and they know more concerning their animals and type of operation.

Be well Bob. I truly hope you figure it all out.

 

[gcreekrch]

Ok. I think if you that have not heard, or do not understand, that old Proverb: "It is better to remain silent and have people think you a fool, than to speak and remove all l doubt"! Now watch and you will see another old saying come true: " Throw a rock into the pack. and the hit dog will holler".

Yep, and you prove them with nearly every post you make!

 

[Warren Allison]

Yep, and you prove them with nearly every post you make!

Told ya, @Bob Kinford . Nanook of the North was the first dog to howl. Should be about 3 more start barking.

 

[gcreekrch]

Told ya, @Bob Kinford . Nanook of the North was the first dog to howl. Should be about 3 more start barking.

Ol Bob paying you for your jibberish?

 

[Ebenezer]

You're pressuring the comfort zone in order to drive them forward. Basically you're stressing them enough to move in the direction you want. I'm putting enough pressure on them to draw attention, while positioning myself so that their release is in the direction I want them to flow.

Imagine you're at a party. All you can eat prime rib and bottomless glass of your favorite beverage, but you're not sure where the buffet is. Do you want someone coming up from in back of you, trying to pressure you into going to the buffet table? Or would you rather have someone draw your attention so that you can see the buffet table and head towards it on your own?

While we're on buffets...Someone invites you to a free, all you can eat buffet of all your favorite foods. Sounds like a good deal, but they have also invited all of the linemen from the NFL and have instructed them to treat you rudely. Chances are you're going to be stressed out enough you'll head to the Taco Bell you spotted across the street.

Out there, definitely out there. No answer.

 

[Ebenezer]

What does that even mean???

And please don't answer that. I'm just pointing out that your gobbledygook doesn't translate well into intelligible English. Let's stick to the moving cattle until we get that out of the way.

It tells me that the Mexican cattle had poor mothering ability.

 

[Ebenezer]

"Gathering up to the gate waiting to move even though they have plenty of feed where they are is one example."
How often does this happen? 1% of the time? Definitely not a useful example in rotational grazing and strip grazing.

 

[Brute 23]

Yep, and you prove them with nearly every post you make!

Ya I can't play this game any more. I've been drunk the past 2 days. I'll be an alcoholic in no time.

Seems like ol Warren has never seen a coat tail he won't ride.

 

[Brute 23]

So Bob wants cows grouped up in the pasture because the competition makes for better grazing... but competition coming to feed is stressful?

 

[Travlr]

So Bob wants cows grouped up in the pasture because the competition makes for better grazing... but competition coming to feed is stressful?

You're just not buying what he's selling... You need to try harder.

 

[gcreekrch]

You're just not buying what he's selling... You need to try harder.

And pay more!

 

[Brute 23]

You can come on this board and learn a lot, I say that from experience. It's free info from genuinely good people donating their time to others success. Ya, you have to wade through some bs but you can find one or more people operating simular to you, or where you would like to be. You can see pros and cons and all sorts of perspectives on all kinds of topics, again all FREE.

Always be leary of magic beans.

I hope one day Bob decides to actually join the forum rather than just use it.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

My feeding tractor has an extremely rough ride so I try to work my way across the field in a manner that has me driving over the fewest frozen turds lol

Humm........so that is low stress for you then, but is it low stress for the cows? Could Bob learn something by 'turd dodging?"