I wasn't saying he wouldn't be a good bull for someone else. He just didn't work with our genetics. We've used other OCC bulls sired by Traveler and the calves came out just fine. For some reason, Anchor just didn't work.
DOC HARRIS":1itrq8xi said:Inasmuch as Anchor has obviously "worked well" with other breeder's, I would have to assume that the Cow side of your "Hodge-Podge" genetics would be suspect in your disappointing results!
DOC HARRIS
"Hodge podge" was referring to that the cattle do not all stem from the same pedigrees. In the past we have matched up the cows to what we felt was the best bull to fit the cow based on EPDs and looks, if that meant AI-ing to 5 different bulls, that is what it we did. When we used Anchor several years ago, we didn't have the uniformity we wanted, and we thought Anchor would help achieve that. It didn't happen. Maybe now that the cows we tried him on have been culled over the years, it would be a different story.DOC HARRIS":hc8yxfex said:Inasmuch as Anchor has obviously "worked well" with other breeder's, I would have to assume that the Cow side of your "Hodge-Podge" genetics would be suspect in your disappointing results!
DOC HARRIS
RD-Sam":2pj8v7ej said:DOC HARRIS":2pj8v7ej said:Inasmuch as Anchor has obviously "worked well" with other breeder's, I would have to assume that the Cow side of your "Hodge-Podge" genetics would be suspect in your disappointing results!
DOC HARRIS
I'm not one to try and defend anyone else, but in this case he said other bulls have worked well with their cows, and Anchor didn't.
:!:
I'm still waiting for you to show me where all those ranches you listed used Anchor, and had good results? Where are all these bulls that are selling thousands of straws of semen, and where are all these cows that are being flushed due to their superior traits?
Or is this just another blanket attack from Doc that has no target and no real data to back up the generalized attack? :wave:
sooknortex":2njzdagt said:Click his link on this page:
http://www.ohldecattle.com/sired.html
Heard they sold a bull this week in their sale for $250,000 for 1/2 interest.
'Course that's just another number.
This to me is what an Angus bull should look like.
DOC HARRIS":346lf9po said:RD-Sam":346lf9po said:DOC HARRIS":346lf9po said:Inasmuch as Anchor has obviously "worked well" with other breeder's, I would have to assume that the Cow side of your "Hodge-Podge" genetics would be suspect in your disappointing results!
DOC HARRIS
I'm not one to try and defend anyone else, but in this case he said other bulls have worked well with their cows, and Anchor didn't.
:!:
I'm still waiting for you to show me where all those ranches you listed used Anchor, and had good results? Where are all these bulls that are selling thousands of straws of semen, and where are all these cows that are being flushed due to their superior traits?
Or is this just another blanket attack from Doc that has no target and no real data to back up the generalized attack? :wave:
RD-Sam-
Sam, as I have told you in the past, you avoid "..reading "the WORDS". Go back and read the post - s-l-o-w-l-y! I did NOT say that the various ranches "used Anchor". I said they ". . .moved to ameliorate their breeding program to . . .include the genetics that incorporate those commensurable with those of OCC Anchor 771A. Is that rhetoric to advanced for you to comprehend?
End of discussion.
DOC HARRIS
red angus shower":233u45d8 said:I understand what Doc is getting at, but if they had several different pedigrees on the cows and few of the calves were kept, that sounds like something is up. All that genetic diversity should have produced something. But without going to someone's place, you can't determine what that specific producer is looking for, maybe they wanted something the bull wasn't giving them. And if those big breeders are using this bull, or genetic similar, you cannot determine how many they have kept either, unless you look them up on the AAA website (like I have time to do that). And of course, like with club calves, when you have several thousand cows being bred to one bull, you're going to get good ones and sch!tty ones. Look at Who Made Who, some great steers and heifers came from him, but there were far more who never made it to the show ring.
Right, and like I said, besides what the poster said about what they look for in cattle, who really knows what their "perfect" animal looks like? Anyone can criticize someone for what they say online, but unless you go to their operation and see their cattle, you can't really make a judgement fairly.RD-Sam":3g8e07hf said:red angus shower":3g8e07hf said:I understand what Doc is getting at, but if they had several different pedigrees on the cows and few of the calves were kept, that sounds like something is up. All that genetic diversity should have produced something. But without going to someone's place, you can't determine what that specific producer is looking for, maybe they wanted something the bull wasn't giving them. And if those big breeders are using this bull, or genetic similar, you cannot determine how many they have kept either, unless you look them up on the AAA website (like I have time to do that). And of course, like with club calves, when you have several thousand cows being bred to one bull, you're going to get good ones and sch!tty ones. Look at Who Made Who, some great steers and heifers came from him, but there were far more who never made it to the show ring.
I know Doc has plenty of knowledge and I get some of his points too. BUT, here lately he has just been jumping on folks and saying stuff that could mean a hundred different things, and alot of times it isn't even clear who he is jumping on. It's like he goes out of his way to make sure he doesn't say exactly what he means, and no useful information can be used from what he says. :help: So just spit it out Doc and say what you are getting at, instead of saying don't get me started. :tiphat:
She looks about what ours look like. Nothing to be jumping up and down about, but will hopefully produce.EAT BEEF":398ojyqg said:http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m90/5barx/farm5-24-08105.jpg
Only pic I can find tonight. She is out of a first calf Anchor heifer and sired by an Anchor grandson.She is in the replacement pen now,She might not be great,but I bet she will make a good cow.
W.T":3t7fsyy5 said:OCC Anchor is a very good maternal bull. He has worked very well in tough conditions for us. It is quite true that his EPD'S are not the stuff that the spot light shines on. The environment has the most influence on EPD'S than any other thing. These cattle may not work in high energy operations. They will simply get too "FAT" and that may cause fertility problems. But in tough conditions they work very well, they grade well and hang well, and they fit the box. Now who is it that should be making the profit here the Producer, the feeder or the packer: I will take the UN glamorous EPD'S of Anchor any day and have cattle that can survive harsh conditions.
Do you use EPDs in helping to make a selection?W.T":1aibdrbd said:IMHO cattle breeding is not as much science as it is an ART. And there are Very few breeders that have the ability to see the forest threw the trees.Numbers Numbers Meaningless Numbers. Ohlde cattle are real and they work in all types of environments. This is the results of a master breeder, not Numbers Numbers Meaningless Numbers.