Hereford Today

[Brandonm22]

Herefordsire

We could probably list 1,000 reasons why Herefords are getting obliterated by Angus. In my view, these are excuses. We need someone to form a telented team and clean house. Shareholders can elect a CEO to clean house, hire better talent, turn a company around by drastically increasing revenue, cut the budgets, etc. However, I am not clear how an association could clean house.

I am of the view that Angus has established themselves as the premier beef breed in this country and there is nothing Hereford, Charolais, Simmental, or Beefmaster can do to change that in this generation. There are ~52 breeds of beef cattle and 51% of the cattle registered last year were Angus. Angus has the largest data base, the lion's share of the commercial bull market, they sell the most semen (BY FAR!!!), heck I have a !50 page magazine that is full of nothing but Alabama Angus breeders. Hereford needs to accept that and carve out a niche trying to get folks with black or grey cowherds to use a Hereford bull in their crossbreeding rotation.

 

[novatech]

Herefordsire

We could probably list 1,000 reasons why Herefords are getting obliterated by Angus. In my view, these are excuses. We need someone to form a telented team and clean house. Shareholders can elect a CEO to clean house, hire better talent, turn a company around by drastically increasing revenue, cut the budgets, etc. However, I am not clear how an association could clean house.

I am of the view that Angus has established themselves as the premier beef breed in this country and there is nothing Hereford, Charolais, Simmental, or Beefmaster can do to change that in this generation. There are ~52 breeds of beef cattle and 51% of the cattle registered last year were Angus. Angus has the largest data base, the lion's share of the commercial bull market, they sell the most semen (BY FAR!!!), heck I have a !50 page magazine that is full of nothing but Alabama Angus breeders. Hereford needs to accept that and carve out a niche trying to get folks with black or grey cowherds to use a Hereford bull in their crossbreeding rotation.

You could start by informing the public as to what citerfied angus beef really is as defined by them. Of course that might not be considered fair play. Oh well that won't work, they started their own deception. :frowns:

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Herefordsire

We could probably list 1,000 reasons why Herefords are getting obliterated by Angus. In my view, these are excuses. We need someone to form a telented team and clean house. Shareholders can elect a CEO to clean house, hire better talent, turn a company around by drastically increasing revenue, cut the budgets, etc. However, I am not clear how an association could clean house.

I am of the view that Angus has established themselves as the premier beef breed in this country and there is nothing Hereford, Charolais, Simmental, or Beefmaster can do to change that in this generation. There are ~52 breeds of beef cattle and 51% of the cattle registered last year were Angus. Angus has the largest data base, the lion's share of the commercial bull market, they sell the most semen (BY FAR!!!), heck I have a !50 page magazine that is full of nothing but Alabama Angus breeders. Hereford needs to accept that and carve out a niche trying to get folks with black or grey cowherds to use a Hereford bull in their crossbreeding rotation.

had a polled hereford breeder tell me awhile back. he was thinking of swtching over to a angus bull for a couple years, to make some money.

 

[smnherf]

It appears the "success" bottleneck is CHB supply.
I am real curious as to why you might think that. Is this your observation or is this something that has been told to you. If so, by whom?

I will have some more time tonight or tomorrow to tell my view on the CHB supply situationl.

Brian

 

[HerefordSire]

It appears the "success" bottleneck is CHB supply.
I am real curious as to why you might think that. Is this your observation or is this something that has been told to you. If so, by whom?

I will have some more time tonight or tomorrow to tell my view on the CHB supply situationl.

Brian

Observations

(1) Somewhat obvious as there is only one CHB outlet in my state and other states with no CHB oulets. Texas has very few outlets and they have a large population of meat eaters.

(2) The other observation is by reading the Annual Report:

Core Strategy I: Grow the CHB program
2007 proved to be an exciting transition year for the
Association's flagship commercial marketing company
— Certified Hereford Beef (CHB) LLC. The company
went through major staff restructuring, established new
and improved business relationships with CHB-licensed
packers and rejuvenated sales efforts, all of which
attributed to an enormous fourth-quarter boost in sales
opportunities late in summer 2007.
A few highlights are the signing of two major food
service distributors — Reinhart Food Service, Omaha,
Neb., and Wolverine Packing Co., Detroit — while
several key supermarket accounts were launched
The Hereford breed declared itself the "Efficiency Experts"
in 2006-07, not just anecdotally but through third-party
research that this year is providing clear-cut evidence of
the genetic advantage for reducing production costs and
increasing the efficiency of the cow-calf and feedlot sectors.
including United Supermarkets of Oklahoma. Combined,
the new business should generate seven to 10 million lb.
(20% growth) of new beef sales in the coming year.
With fast growth come more challenges. Cattle-Fax
reported a 5% decline from the previous year in fed
beef placements in 2007, and both CHB-licensed packers
struggled to meet the growing demand through the
summer months. This kind of pull demand has always
been the goal of the CHB program, but it does not come
without pain. The new growth opportunities brought about
in 2007 will challenge the program in 2008 and quite
possibly force the program to seek additional capacity in
other regions of the country.

 

[Herefords.US]

>>Do you guys still have those ridiculously high certificate prices?<<

Yes.

But there is a number of bulls that can be used and you don't have to buy certificates. This was a change put in by the "new" guys at the AHA, because they're aware of how much the high cert prices are hurting the progress of the breed.

Here's at least a partial list:

R PUCKSTER 2013 (P42400457)
KESLING TRM LEGACY 22L (P42155087)
BAR JZ TRADITIONS LEGEND 463S (P42693193)
AF HL KING DOMINO 505 (P42581961
MSU TCF REVOLUTION 4R (P42593689)
AH HEAVY DUTY 11G [SOD,CHB] (P24027746
FELTONS 621 (P42411548)
VPI LIMITED EDITION J921 [CHB] (P42039770)
GERBER KARAT 024K (P42072858)
FIELDS EDGE CHISEL 7C4 (P42788859)
CJH L1 DOMINO 0041 (42118778)
MOHICAN PRIME UP 72P (P42474743)
PR COMMANDER 4021 (42517300)
HH ADVANCE 5061R ET (42576315)
RH 774 AMERICA 483 S14 (P42696657)
WESTWIND JWR TUNDRA 148R (P42649169)
PCR 286 MR ADVISOR 502R (P42620083)
HH ADVANCE 5212R (42576468)
TRM 5401 PATRIOT 2175 (P42358667)
DM ONLINE 439 (P42561481)
HH ADVANCE 5104R (42576357)
LCG MASTER DUTY 48K (P42073861)
OHR HARD RIGHT 10M 31R (P42584650)
H IGNITE 6086 (42709115)
HH ADVANCE 4140P (42475836)
BOYD FIRST CLASS 6040 (P42685966)
DJB RED HILLS COMMANDER 12R ET (P42613532)
BAR JZ EXECUTOR 426R (P42582938)
K 64H RIBSTONE LAD 157K [CHB] (42267708)
H5 255 ADVANCE 522 (42578084)
KCF BENNETT H142 L76 (P42174231)
GRANDVIEW 7OAKS SONORA 145R (P42647892)
CS 29F BOOMER 44J (P42001810)
HYALITE SECRET 416 (P42469066)
KCF BENNETT M326 S342 (P42763176)
SHF REALITY M33 R40 ET (P42612118)
S BIG OAK 20S ET (42731552)


George

 

[Herefords.US]

While I definitely think more can and should be done, I think some progress is also being made.

What I look at is the fact that the semen companies are spending more money and effort on getting some good Hereford bulls into their lineup. That indicates that they are seeing a trend toward more ranchers wanting to use Hereford bulls.

I think the non-cert program will eventually make semen (and cert prices) fall to a more reasonable level. It may take 5 years, but it will happen.

George

 

[HerefordSire]

had a polled hereford breeder tell me awhile back. he was thinking of swtching over to a angus bull for a couple years, to make some money.

I have heard this also, not too long ago.

 

[herefordchick]

I know of 3 Angus breeders just a few miles from me that are in the process of switching from Angus to Herefords. Name any breed of any specie and you can find people getting in and out of that breed - don't see where that proves anything at all.

I do know where you couldn't sell a Hereford bull 3 years ago the markets are good and breeders have commented they could have sold more than they raised. I also know that 5-10 years ago every person that came along and asked me about buying feeder calves they always wanted to know if I had blacks. The last 3 years most folks that I mention blacks to have told me they prefer Herefords. When I ask why I get 2 reasons - disposition and efficiency

The intrest in Herefords is coming back. America's black cow herd has become mongrelized - black no longer means what it once did.

I have always had Herefords and always will. I started out with commercial herefords and crossed them to every awful thing you can think of. Every breed I crossed them to taught me another lesson in appreciating the virtues of the good old Hereford Momma cow. Seems to me maybe I am not the only one out there that has learned this lesson.

As far as improving things - yes there are some problems in KC - I sure dont claim to have it figured out. Anyone that does should go to KC and talk to the powers that be. I agree with the earlier post Phillip Moon is a good guy and he would welcome any constructive conversation about moving the breed in the right direction. If you can't get to KC - give him a call. Call the board members - Marshall Ernst, Jerry Huth, & John Woolfolk, I have talked to at length in the past and they are on that board because they love and believe in this breed. I mean no disrespect to the others on the board I just don't know them personally so can't say one way or the other. Not everything going on in KC is good but it isn't all bad either. We do have some people on staff that do a great job and work very hard for this breed.

On another level if you really want to help the breed -
1. CULL, CULL, CULL - too many registered breeders make too many excuses for keeping marginal quality cattle because they spent too much on them in the first place or the pedigrees are hot. Selling them to the ignorant & the newcomers does more damage to the breed image than anything else.

2. Join your local association and become an active breeder/ promoter of the breed. Many of these volunteer associations have a hard time getting people to serve and work events.
"If you are not a part of the solution........you are a part of the problem"

Every calf needs a white face

 

[HerefordSire]

I don't have a copy of the By Laws yet....so I am just guessing:

There is likely one vote for each registered head. There are about 60K new animal registrations in each recent year. Many registrants do not vote and I am unclear to the workings of the proxy votes but they are believed to be neutral. The top ten largest registrants may control about 4,000 votes. If the average cost per calf is $1K and one wanted to control a vote with cash, it might take about....$1K * 10,000 votes = $10M or 10,000 calves. The length of ownership of one calf or one vote may not be defined such than the transferring of ownership back to the original owner may, or may not, be arranged for a transfer fee. Of course, there would be no transfer fee if a member was disgruntled and voted in favor of strategic changes, including the removal of non-cooperative board members and executives. There are about 3,800 active members. I am unclear whether this number is declining rapidly or gradually but believed to be declining.

A black herford bull crossing eliminates red and white faced calves which are believed to be 25% of my personal commercial output. Due to the shortage of quality Hereford bulls in my area, I am considering using an Angus bull for the first time in my short career. So what do Hereford breeders need the most? Do we need a strong export connection with China to increase demand for purebred Herefords? Do we need additional supply though additional incentives to fill additional CHB channels to increase demand for purebred Herefords? I have had the time to study some basic numbers, but I need more statistics to study.

 

[Brandonm22]

Bull shortage????

Get on the phone and a bull can be on the truck headed your way in a matter of days. Star Lake probably has one (or more) within ~300 miles of your location.

 

[HerefordSire]

Bull shortage????

Get on the phone and a bull can be on the truck headed your way in a matter of days. Star Lake probably has one (or more) within ~300 miles of your location.

I just don't care to do business with someone that doesn't return my phone calls. I bought two bulls from Monte last year and need more as I am expanding. He drove them right on down here within a week.

 

[rocket2222]

The AHA tailored to the large breeder, they are doing ok, most of them have fairly easy access to the CHB program, they get about a good of a deal for their calves as you are going to get. Its a little different for some of the smaller breeders as they need to round up at least a car load to make it a worth while proposition. That's not why we lost market share though. If we want that share back, we have to do a couple of things. They should be directed at the small to medium sized commercial breeder. We need to convince them that the Herefords today are not the same cows that they remembered when they were kids, the kind their Fathers had, that we have worked hard culling out the bad udders, prolapses and bad feet, etc. The second and more important thing is that most if not all small to medium size commercial breeders take their calves to the local sale barn, they get 5 to 10 cents less per pound for a red hided calf compared to the same calf thats black. The large volume buyers who attend these weekly auctions love this because they make more profit on those red hides, If you talk to a lot of the small commercial breeders, most of them liked the old Herefords, and would use them again today, they seem to be willing to believe that we have made them better than they were, but for most of them it still comes down to the fact they can make more on a black calf than a red one of the same quality. Until we can convince those buyers to pay fair price based on the calf and not the color of its hide, we will not get are market share back. Until the smaller commercial breeder starts raising and keeping Herefords again, there is no reason for the large breeder to change what they're raising. When the smaller commercial breeder starts buying Herefords again, the larger breeders will change to meet the demand, not the other way round.

 

[HerefordSire]

I am of the view that Angus has established themselves as the premier beef breed in this country and there is nothing Hereford, Charolais, Simmental, or Beefmaster can do to change that in this generation. There are ~52 breeds of beef cattle and 51% of the cattle registered last year were Angus. Angus has the largest data base, the lion's share of the commercial bull market, they sell the most semen (BY FAR!!!), heck I have a !50 page magazine that is full of nothing but Alabama Angus breeders. Hereford needs to accept that and carve out a niche trying to get folks with black or grey cowherds to use a Hereford bull in their crossbreeding rotation.


I appreciate your input B....err...I don't settle for second best! AAA just hired a Hereford Breeder to be their CEO and he happens to be the same one I purchased the 3008 girls from. It ain't over until its over. Got a cold Bud Lime?

 

[HerefordSire]

You could start by informing the public as to what citerfied angus beef really is as defined by them. Of course that might not be considered fair play. Oh well that won't work, they started their own deception. :frowns:

Fair is fair! Please provide and accurate definition of Certified Angus Beef.

 

[HerefordSire]

But there is a number of bulls that can be used and you don't have to buy certificates. This was a change put in by the "new" guys at the AHA, because they're aware of how much the high cert prices are hurting the progress of the breed.

The certs are free, we just bump the prices up to cover the certs. How gullible do you think we are? If I see a product advertised for $1.99, I try not to buy it. If I see the word FREE anywhere on a advertised product, I try not to buy it.

 

[HerefordSire]

While I definitely think more can and should be done, I think some progress is also being made.

What I look at is the fact that the semen companies are spending more money and effort on getting some good Hereford bulls into their lineup. That indicates that they are seeing a trend toward more ranchers wanting to use Hereford bulls.

I think the non-cert program will eventually make semen (and cert prices) fall to a more reasonable level. It may take 5 years, but it will happen.

George

I noticed that also about the semen bulls by third party companies. It looks like a big mess to me right now. Imagine $200 per cert, NOT COUNTING THE SEMEN, for a popular Remitall bull. Heck, I want one of those framed gold plated certs to hang in the game room over the pool table.

 

[HerefordSire]

I know of 3 Angus breeders just a few miles from me that are in the process of switching from Angus to Herefords. Name any breed of any specie and you can find people getting in and out of that breed - don't see where that proves anything at all.

Did you try to warn the three breeders that their gross income has a good chance of going down in future years?

I do know where you couldn't sell a Hereford bull 3 years ago the markets are good and breeders have commented they could have sold more than they raised. I also know that 5-10 years ago every person that came along and asked me about buying feeder calves they always wanted to know if I had blacks. The last 3 years most folks that I mention blacks to have told me they prefer Herefords. When I ask why I get 2 reasons - disposition and efficiency

Why did you mention blacks?

The intrest in Herefords is coming back. America's black cow herd has become mongrelized - black no longer means what it once did.

The numbers do not show it. I projected the same thing several years ago. The numbers are actually getting worse. Additionally, I am expecting a major tumble in Herefords in the next two years if I am not mistaken. Usually right before a major tumble, a magnitude will creep up against resistance. The AHA calls it stabilization. I call it a correction before a crash!

I have always had Herefords and always will. I started out with commercial herefords and crossed them to every awful thing you can think of. Every breed I crossed them to taught me another lesson in appreciating the virtues of the good old Hereford Momma cow. Seems to me maybe I am not the only one out there that has learned this lesson.

Have you ever tried breeding "no herf blood"?

As far as improving things - yes there are some problems in KC - I sure dont claim to have it figured out. Anyone that does should go to KC and talk to the powers that be. I agree with the earlier post Phillip Moon is a good guy and he would welcome any constructive conversation about moving the breed in the right direction. If you can't get to KC - give him a call. Call the board members - Marshall Ernst, Jerry Huth, & John Woolfolk, I have talked to at length in the past and they are on that board because they love and believe in this breed. I mean no disrespect to the others on the board I just don't know them personally so can't say one way or the other. Not everything going on in KC is good but it isn't all bad either. We do have some people on staff that do a great job and work very hard for this breed.

What kind of issues are in KC?

On another level if you really want to help the breed -
1. CULL, CULL, CULL - too many registered breeders make too many excuses for keeping marginal quality cattle because they spent too much on them in the first place or the pedigrees are hot. Selling them to the ignorant & the newcomers does more damage to the breed image than anything else.

How can you sell them and keep them at the same time? :mrgreen:

2. Join your local association and become an active breeder/ promoter of the breed. Many of these volunteer associations have a hard time getting people to serve and work events.

As far as I know, I am the only member within 40 miles and I live in a 10,000 population town and a county population town of 26,000 while the sale barn runs some pretty good numbers. I would be the only one there at my own meeting. :mrgreen:

"If you are not a part of the solution........you are a part of the problem"

I disagree. :mrgreen:

Every calf needs a white face

I disagree with this propaganda!



Overall, I really like your attitude. This is what we need. This may be what we lost.

 

[HerefordSire]

The AHA tailored to the large breeder, they are doing ok, most of them have fairly easy access to the CHB program, they get about a good of a deal for their calves as you are going to get. Its a little different for some of the smaller breeders as they need to round up at least a car load to make it a worth while proposition. That's not why we lost market share though. If we want that share back, we have to do a couple of things. They should be directed at the small to medium sized commercial breeder. We need to convince them that the Herefords today are not the same cows that they remembered when they were kids, the kind their Fathers had, that we have worked hard culling out the bad udders, prolapses and bad feet, etc. The second and more important thing is that most if not all small to medium size commercial breeders take their calves to the local sale barn, they get 5 to 10 cents less per pound for a red hided calf compared to the same calf thats black. The large volume buyers who attend these weekly auctions love this because they make more profit on those red hides, If you talk to a lot of the small commercial breeders, most of them liked the old Herefords, and would use them again today, they seem to be willing to believe that we have made them better than they were, but for most of them it still comes down to the fact they can make more on a black calf than a red one of the same quality. Until we can convince those buyers to pay fair price based on the calf and not the color of its hide, we will not get are market share back. Until the smaller commercial breeder starts raising and keeping Herefords again, there is no reason for the large breeder to change what they're raising. When the smaller commercial breeder starts buying Herefords again, the larger breeders will change to meet the demand, not the other way round.


Interesting and very insightful! The way I figure it is much simpler. There are two sides. Sammy Supply and his buddy Danny Demand. When Sammy and Danny meet up Sally Sale shows up. You see, Sammy and Danny are very smart. Real smart. The trick is to have Danny to show up before Sammy so Sally is setup. If, by chance, Sammy shows up before Danny, well then, Sally suffers. :mrgreen:

 

[DOC HARRIS]

You need to get a group of strong advocates together and get your Association on a pragmatic basis.


Doc...please define what you specifically mean by "strong advocates".

An Advocate is a person, either interested or disinterested, directly, in the subject at hand - in this particular instance whether the Hereford Breed can exist as a viable representative group in the beef industry. An Advocate is a person, or Firm, who will take the problems facing the "Breeders", in this case, and represent them in Court, or Newspapers, or Advertising, or in front of those who are in opposition to the desires, wishes, and wills of the Majority. Most of you Hereford Breeders who are posting on this thread could be considered Advocates - some of whom I consider "Strong" Advocates.

An Advocate can be referred to as an "Ombudsman" or a Judge or a Mediator.

My point to this subject is this: If the Majority of Hereford Breeders are dissatisfied with the way the hierarchy of the Association is functioning - - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! If a few of you aren't prepared to "Bell The Cat", get a "STRONG ADVOCATE" who WILL - even if you have to sit him/her down and educate them concerning the issues that you have with the Association. The main reason that most efforts to CHANGE the status quo of ANYTHING, is because the complainers don't know the correct way(s) to go about approaching the problems! That is why Politicians have "Campaign Managers".

DOC HARRIS