Heat Detection for AI

[Putangitangi]

...How do you explain, maybe we suck at A.I. or it could be that A.I. is a bit more challenging than everyone would have you think. A bull is going to pound it out around the clock, you only have one shot with a small vial of semen and you are hoping that you can get her up at the absolute right time in the cycle. ... I use a monitor and sometimes a cow will be in the sweet spot to breed at 2:30 a.m. on a night that is pouring rain. Am I going to go breed her at that time and under those conditions, most likely no, is a bull? You bet. That is why it can take multiple attempts, I may not breed her at the perfect time, I might wait until the next day which may be too late, or I will breed her too early because I know that I won't be getting up at 3:00 a.m. to breed a cow. I hope this lengthy explanation clears the air.

If your cow is in "the sweet spot" at 2.30am, then she's likely still in the sweet spot four hours later when it gets light. It's not quite that critical unless you're using sexed semen and if you're going to that effort, why not get out there at the right time for the saving of three weeks? You can't buy time.

...I find that AI'ng a cow that is over 8 years old becomes a more challenging thing to accomplish. Some settle just fine, others seem to take a while. ...

I can't see why that should be. Heifers used to be my tough ones, but only because they were physically more difficult to AI with a tiny virgin cervix. Experience has made that no more difficult than older cows now.

...We have an AI tech who is very experienced, ... He could AI blindfolded and he will be the first to tell you that anyone who says it's easy is full of sh..t! He knows very good and well that it can take multiple tries on some animals. He mentioned this the other day "It was easy to AI dairy cows, they came in the barn every day, but AI'ng an entire beef herd is a whole different ballgame"

If AI were so easy, everyone would be doing it, which is not the case in our area, as you well know.

We're all AIing "blindfolded"; that's the nature of being inside a cow. I was talking to one of my old trainers the other day, who was telling me when he got back into AI he'd been out of the business for 30 years and when he did it again, it was as if he'd never had a break. It isn't hard if you know what you're doing and have become good at it. Sure some people can't do it or find it hard but people who can do it do not find it hard.
Yes, I'm often full of ****, I can live with that: it gets in my ears, around the back of my head if my cow swings her tail in annoyance, sometimes down my gumboots and often down the front of my clothes. It's summer, so I don't care, just strip off and wash everything down. But I can AI to a near 80% conception rate, so four out of five cows I AI are pregnant on the first shot. I love the AI season. I get a real kick out of introducing new genetics to my lovely herd.

I prefer my cows to calve within a six-week window, so I do everything I can to get them all in calf within about 35 days. Usually I don't quite make that but as the herd is reasonably short-gestation (average 278/280 on heifers/bulls), I have time up my sleeve. I calve in the same months each year.

So yeah, I reckon maybe, as you suggest, you aren't as good at AI or heat detection as you'd like to think, despite all the gizmos you have to help. I'd love to have detectors to tell me when they start standing and when they stop and how active they were in between but I have more time than money and a summer out in the fields with the cows, gradually quieting them all as I wander around checking every few hours, isn't a bad life to live.

 

[CattleMan1920]

I know breeders that have purchased 10 year old cows from the top breeders in the country and flushed them trying to improve their genetics. But I honestly don't know any breeder that has a 16 year old cow and AI her.
Ron he does have some nice grass, but I think you can still raise a bigger cow on less feed.

Vince, I don't think there is an age limit on AI. I might be wrong. I never really thought about it

To me having a 16 year old registered cow in your herd means it has beat out 15 years of your breeding decisions. Just seems like a very poor decision in more than a few ways. I always ask myself why?

Happy New Year to you all. Now to the 16 year old cow. I hear all kinds of talk "that bull isn't proven" etc. well how about the cow? How can you truly know if a cow can perform if you don't keep them around? I'm not talking about keeping a non performer, but the cows that can produce a nice calf year after year without fail. The old gal we have has really good feet, a straight back, excellent disposition, raises a quality calf, and is quite healthy. She is from the BlueBlood cow family which you see at Hoover Angus.

I don't know what you are thinking, but if I see a cow with those genetics, I want to take that and strengthen them further with AI. I might be wrong, but if the dam is going strong at 16, then it would go to reason that her daughter will have those traits along with the quality traits that the AI sire brings to the table. Longevity, good feet, fertile, what's not to like? You guys talk non stop about functionality, I think our old gal defines that word.

 

[Putangitangi]

Chasing new genetics all the time just puts up-to-date names in your pedigrees. It doesn't necessarily improve your herd! Why wouldn't you keep your best old cows for as long as they're continuing to do a good job, trouble-free?

 

[CattleMan1920]

Chasing new genetics all the time just puts up-to-date names in your pedigrees. It doesn't necessarily improve your herd! Why wouldn't you keep your best old cows for as long as they're continuing to do a good job, trouble-free?

Keeping the older performing cows is like a testing ground in my opinion. If keeping older cows is such a bad thing why do many top operations have some 18-20 year olds with a calf at their side? My guess is that they want those longevity genetics.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Chasing new genetics all the time just puts up-to-date names in your pedigrees. It doesn't necessarily improve your herd! Why wouldn't you keep your best old cows for as long as they're continuing to do a good job, trouble-free?

Keeping the older performing cows is like a testing ground in my opinion. If keeping older cows is such a bad thing why do many top operations have some 18-20 year olds with a calf at their side? My guess is that they want those longevity genetics.

As in what top operations if you don't mind me asking? Everyone that I'm familiar with in the Angus breed sells old cows for really good money, usually she'll have a calf by her side and sometimes she'll be a 3 in 1. There's way more money in selling registered proven cows than bulls.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I would never cull a cow that is giving me money making calves - based on AGE. An old cow is a profitable cow. I cull on structure, temperament, fertility, and production - not age.
Your least profitable animal is probably the cow under maybe 5 years of age. I totally agree, the replacement heifers SHOULD be your best genetics. But, I sell enough cows and replacement heifers, that I don't have to cull very many cows to keep my herd around the same size. Varies from year to year.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Chasing new genetics all the time just puts up-to-date names in your pedigrees. It doesn't necessarily improve your herd! Why wouldn't you keep your best old cows for as long as they're continuing to do a good job, trouble-free?

Keeping the older performing cows is like a testing ground in my opinion. If keeping older cows is such a bad thing why do many top operations have some 18-20 year olds with a calf at their side? My guess is that they want those longevity genetics.

As in what top operations if you don't mind me asking? Everyone that I'm familiar with in the Angus breed sells old cows for really good money, usually she'll have a calf by her side and sometimes she'll be a 3 in 1. There's way more money in selling registered proven cows than bulls.

I'm talking about foundation donor cows. The very best that they have. Take Blackcap May 4136 for example, a legend, she is now, if still living 15 years old. SAV is selling her clone according to the sales brochure, on 2-9-2019. I'm not talking about every old cow in the herd, I'm talking about ones that are truly outstanding.

I do agree with you on selling the bred cow with calf on her side, but I think most producers are selling the product they want to get rid of, not their best breeding stock.

 

[wbvs58]

I sell some of my best cows every year, most will have only had 4/5 calves. I keep the heifers coming through. I don't think there is a right way or wrong way of doing things, as long as you put a lot of thought into things and be a critic of your results then you can make things work and produce a usefull product.

Ken

 

[True Grit Farms]

I sell some of my best cows every year, most will have only had 4/5 calves. I keep the heifers coming through. I don't think there is a right way or wrong way of doing things, as long as you put a lot of thought into things and be a critic of your results then you can make things work and produce a usefull product.

Ken

Are you selling your cows private treaty or through a sale barn? You have to nice of cows to sell for slaughter.

 

[Bright Raven]

I'm talking about foundation donor cows. The very best that they have. Take Blackcap May 4136 for example, a legend, she is now, if still living 15 years old. SAV is selling her clone according to the sales brochure, on 2-9-2019. I'm not talking about every old cow in the herd, I'm talking about ones that are truly outstanding.

I do agree with you on selling the bred cow with calf on her side, but I think most producers are selling the product they want to get rid of, not their best breeding stock.

Most people keep the best and sell the rest!

 

[wbvs58]

I sell some of my best cows every year, most will have only had 4/5 calves. I keep the heifers coming through. I don't think there is a right way or wrong way of doing things, as long as you put a lot of thought into things and be a critic of your results then you can make things work and produce a usefull product.

Ken

Are you selling your cows private treaty or through a sale barn? You have to nice of cows to sell for slaughter.

Grit, I try to sell private treaty and have a list of people that want to buy however last year summer ended with no one having any feed so no one wanted to add any extra mouths to feed and I had to sell at the saleyards.

Ken

 

[WinterSpringsFarm]

I'm talking about foundation donor cows. The very best that they have. Take Blackcap May 4136 for example, a legend, she is now, if still living 15 years old. SAV is selling her clone according to the sales brochure, on 2-9-2019. I'm not talking about every old cow in the herd, I'm talking about ones that are truly outstanding.

I do agree with you on selling the bred cow with calf on her side, but I think most producers are selling the product they want to get rid of, not their best breeding stock.

Most people keep the best and sell the rest!

Seed stock guys sell the best and keep the rest. No sense in selling something if it isn't going to be your best step forward.

 

[Putangitangi]

Just inseminated a cow early this morning. It was easy! No s*** either!

 

[Bright Raven]

Just inseminated a cow early this morning. It was easy! No s*** either!

Artificial Insemination is a routine practice. What makes it challenging, is the occasional one that does not go easy. I have all of my cows/heifers serviced this breeding season. I am now waiting for any that did not stick. Only one was a challenge and that is because she has a deep cervix. I had the whole rod in her when the rod got to the uterine end of the cervix. She had a lot of manure to maneuver through and she got some air in her vagina.

Rarely do I get away without getting some s*** on me. Sometimes are worse than others.

 

[wbvs58]

Just inseminated a cow early this morning. It was easy! No s*** either!

Artificial Insemination is a routine practice. What makes it challenging, is the occasional one that does not go easy. I have all of my cows/heifers serviced this breeding season. I am now waiting for any that did not stick. Only one was a challenge and that is because she has a deep cervix. I had the whole rod in her when the rod got to the uterine end of the cervix. She had a lot of manure to maneuver through and she got some air in her vagina.

Rarely do I get away without getting some s*** on me. Sometimes are worse than others.

Vacuum cleaner Ron???? For the air.

Ken

 

[Redgully]

Just inseminated a cow early this morning. It was easy! No s*** either!

Artificial Insemination is a routine practice. What makes it challenging, is the occasional one that does not go easy. I have all of my cows/heifers serviced this breeding season. I am now waiting for any that did not stick. Only one was a challenge and that is because she has a deep cervix. I had the whole rod in her when the rod got to the uterine end of the cervix. She had a lot of manure to maneuver through and she got some air in her vagina.

Rarely do I get away without getting some s*** on me. Sometimes are worse than others.

Vacuum cleaner Ron???? For the air.

Ken

But what if you get more than you bargain for?

 

[wbvs58]

Artificial Insemination is a routine practice. What makes it challenging, is the occasional one that does not go easy. I have all of my cows/heifers serviced this breeding season. I am now waiting for any that did not stick. Only one was a challenge and that is because she has a deep cervix. I had the whole rod in her when the rod got to the uterine end of the cervix. She had a lot of manure to maneuver through and she got some air in her vagina.

Rarely do I get away without getting some s*** on me. Sometimes are worse than others.

Vacuum cleaner Ron???? For the air.

Ken

But what if you get more than you bargain for?

Turn it off and push it back in, you might as well inseminate her while it is out.

Ken

 

[Bright Raven]

Just inseminated a cow early this morning. It was easy! No s*** either!

Artificial Insemination is a routine practice. What makes it challenging, is the occasional one that does not go easy. I have all of my cows/heifers serviced this breeding season. I am now waiting for any that did not stick. Only one was a challenge and that is because she has a deep cervix. I had the whole rod in her when the rod got to the uterine end of the cervix. She had a lot of manure to maneuver through and she got some air in her vagina.

Rarely do I get away without getting some s*** on me. Sometimes are worse than others.

Vacuum cleaner Ron???? For the air.

Ken

Have you tried it yet?

 

[Putangitangi]

Just inseminated a cow early this morning. It was easy! No s*** either!

Artificial Insemination is a routine practice. What makes it challenging, is the occasional one that does not go easy. I have all of my cows/heifers serviced this breeding season. I am now waiting for any that did not stick. Only one was a challenge and that is because she has a deep cervix. I had the whole rod in her when the rod got to the uterine end of the cervix. She had a lot of manure to maneuver through and she got some air in her vagina.

Rarely do I get away without getting some s*** on me. Sometimes are worse than others.

Branded says it's really hard! Weren't you paying attention? :lol:

I haven't had to deal with a deep one for a long time. I think I figured out how to pull a cervix like that up toward me for insem. Or my cows are just very convenient. Most of the time the cervix is RIGHT THERE and I'm almost in it before I get hold of it.

I think I don't get s*** on me but it might just be that my jeans are already almost standing up on their own and I can't tell. Haven't had any in my ears yet this season. But then I'm only up to number six.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Just inseminated a cow early this morning. It was easy! No s*** either!

Artificial Insemination is a routine practice. What makes it challenging, is the occasional one that does not go easy. I have all of my cows/heifers serviced this breeding season. I am now waiting for any that did not stick. Only one was a challenge and that is because she has a deep cervix. I had the whole rod in her when the rod got to the uterine end of the cervix. She had a lot of manure to maneuver through and she got some air in her vagina.

Rarely do I get away without getting some s*** on me. Sometimes are worse than others.

Branded says it's really hard! Weren't you paying attention? :lol:

I haven't had to deal with a deep one for a long time. I think I figured out how to pull a cervix like that up toward me for insem. Or my cows are just very convenient. Most of the time the cervix is RIGHT THERE and I'm almost in it before I get hold of it.

I think I don't get s*** on me but it might just be that my jeans are already almost standing up on their own and I can't tell. Haven't had any in my ears yet this season. But then I'm only up to number six.

When I say it's hard, I don't mean figuring out where the straw goes. Our A.I. tech usually has zero difficulties at that procedure. I'm referring to the weather and timing. Sometimes we are bringing them in during horrible weather, mud is just insane, they are in another field where it's higher ground, but far away from the chute, etc, and yes that can be difficult. Just got the Biopryn results back today for 7 heifers we bred, 6 were settled, so I guess something went right.