Federal ID Program

[Frankie]

So, I guess some of you guys don't think its important to have traceback capabilities?

I think it's important and I think it's going to happen. If Bruno wants to withhold his cattle, that's his right. I'm happy to identify my cattle and there are thousands of other cattlemen who are willing to. I don't think it's all going to happen this next year, but sooner than later, we're going to have a traceback system here in place in the US. Some feedlots are already willing to pay more for sourced cattle. CAB's "natural" beef program all comes from cattle with the Angus Source ear tag. IMO, somewhere down the line you'll either be raising beef or dog food. It's a food safety issue that COOL first brought to the forefront and the mad cow made even more important.

Frankie I have to agree with Caustic on this one we have too much big brother anyway I have no problem with a voluntary program. Everything the government sticks their finger in turns FUBAR.

I prefer a voluntary program and think that's where we're headed. Those who choose to identify their cattle will benefit. IMO, those who choose NOT to identify their cattle will find their market restricted. I've seen several proposals, some sale barns will put the tags in before they're run through the ring, one group has a vet qualified to put them in and affirm that the cattle are born locally, etc. My state cattleman's assn is working hard on this and I have confidence that they're looking out for my best interests.

 

[la4angus]

Alan
You should get on the commission that will oversee this huge, huge task and explain the problems that you see.

? la your thoughts ?

Alan

Allen Here is what you wrote "I see too many problems with it, besides the Feds getting involved in a huge, huge task". My thoughts are for you to get on the commission that will oversee this huge huge task and explain the problems that you see.
Thank You

 

[Oldtimer]

I expect this post will step on some toes and offend some of you. That's too bad! It is almost inconceivable to me that some of you "cattlemen" have never even heard about Mandatory ID. Below you will find just a few links to discussions on the subject just on these Boards. These go all the way back to July. There's plenty more. But you've waited too long to debate the merits of it. That train's already left! Obviously, some of you missed it. Unbelievable!

Mandatory ID is coming and coming quick. My advice is to study the subject and try to figure out how you're going to implement it in your operation. It won't work to wait until the last minute and say you haven't even heard about it, or cry and say you don't want it. Or try to claim the 'little guy' exemption, whatever that is. Some of you need to get with the program and make a contribution to this industry. Don't expect to just capitilize on good cattle markets now that we've got 'em while others do all the work and shoulder all of the responsibility through good and bad!

http://www.cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7183

http://www.cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8631&sid=271fbbd4b42a47f0eb00ae01f41bc6d1

http://www.cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6548

And here's the most recent that Dun provided for everyone this morning on the NCBA,R-CALF,COOL,USDA Board. It provides a link to find out all the latest info from USDA on the subject:

http://www.cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8713

Texan- You are absolutely right- Everyone needs to be involved-- The system will be worthless unless it has total compliance...........

 

[Alan]

Alan wrote:
Quote:

Alan
You should get on the commission that will oversee this huge, huge task and explain the problems that you see.


? la your thoughts ?

Alan


Allen Here is what you wrote "I see too many problems with it, besides the Feds getting involved in a huge, huge task". My thoughts are for you to get on the commission that will oversee this huge huge task and explain the problems that you see.
Thank You

LA,

? Is this just another case of you giving me cra.p or do you really believe just anyone can get on the commision? Do you think the feds have the capablity to not screw this up?

I think with the BSE problem we do need a program like this but it needs to be ran at a smaller level and possibly policed by the people who have the most to gain and lose which are the people in the cattle industry. The Angus folks have gotten the certified beef program in a great position, I don't see why the cattle industry can't do the same with national ID system.

But I will leave that to you "true cattlemen" (since I believe that you are just giving me cra/p, just to do it). I don't think not shipping your cattle to fight the system is the way to do it. (I know you didn't say that).

Alan

 

[Campground Cattle]

I expect this post will step on some toes and offend some of you. That's too bad! It is almost inconceivable to me that some of you "cattlemen" have never even heard about Mandatory ID. Below you will find just a few links to discussions on the subject just on these Boards. These go all the way back to July. There's plenty more. But you've waited too long to debate the merits of it. That train's already left! Obviously, some of you missed it. Unbelievable!

Mandatory ID is coming and coming quick. My advice is to study the subject and try to figure out how you're going to implement it in your operation. It won't work to wait until the last minute and say you haven't even heard about it, or cry and say you don't want it. Or try to claim the 'little guy' exemption, whatever that is. Some of you need to get with the program and make a contribution to this industry. Don't expect to just capitilize on good cattle markets now that we've got 'em while others do all the work and shoulder all of the responsibility through good and bad!

http://www.cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7183

http://www.cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8631&sid=271fbbd4b42a47f0eb00ae01f41bc6d1

http://www.cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6548

And here's the most recent that Dun provided for everyone this morning on the NCBA,R-CALF,COOL,USDA Board. It provides a link to find out all the latest info from USDA on the subject:

http://www.cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8713

Texan- You are absolutely right- Everyone needs to be involved-- The system will be worthless unless it has total compliance...........

Tex I spoke with Matt Brockman today from the TSWCRA the cool fight is still on. I see from an earlier post you have switched to thinking to the left if old Caustic is right.

 

[georgia beef]

I raise a few cattle just to sell and help pay expenses...However I make my living a s meat cutter in a major chain store... Already all the beef that comes into the store as well as every store has an establishment number on the boxed beef... We can tell the date it was processed at the packers as well ...We record these numbers as we process the beef.. Therefore already if there is a problem with the beef the government now can trace the beef from the farm to the grocery stores... so therefore why do we need a federal I D program when the meat is already tracable???NOt wanting to argue with anyone or cause a fuss just a little education on my part...

 

[Alan]

Thanks Georgia,

Good input, the first case of U.S. BSE was in my part of the country and some of the beef in the "batch" the positive cow was in ended up in our local Safeway store, where I do 90% of my shopping, showed up as hamburger patties. The Safeway is the only game in town. So good stuff, it's good to know there is a system in place and what it is.

Alan

 

[Texan]

Already all the beef that comes into the store as well as every store has an establishment number on the boxed beef... We can tell the date it was processed at the packers as well ...We record these numbers as we process the beef.. Therefore already if there is a problem with the beef the government now can trace the beef from the farm to the grocery stores... so therefore why do we need a federal I D program when the meat is already tracable???

How will the number on the box from the packer let you trace it back to the farm of origin? Just having the date it was processed doesn't really even assure you of tracing back to the feedlot of origin.

How many individual cattle would you guess are represented by the beef on hand in your store? It seems to me like that number could possibly be the same as the number of farms of origin.

 

[Dana Kopp]

Already all the beef that comes into the store as well as every store has an establishment number on the boxed beef... We can tell the date it was processed at the packers as well ...We record these numbers as we process the beef.. Therefore already if there is a problem with the beef the government now can trace the beef from the farm to the grocery stores... so therefore why do we need a federal I D program when the meat is already tracable???NOt wanting to argue with anyone or cause a fuss just a little education on my part...

Maybe I am being thick because I am ready for a holiday break. Where is this number given? Isn't that number be designed so that if a bad batch of beef goes out it can be traced from the packer to the store more than from the packer back? If I understand correctly, if you (or some official) called up the packing plant and gave them the number they could look in their records and tell where that beef came from? Or would they have to give a feedlot name who in turn would have to look up the buyer, on down the line, each having his or her own ID system for the animals?

 

[txag]

ok, here's my take:

the bugs are still being worked out w/the proposed program. one of the main problems is exactly what has been discussed.....Who Will Pay??? also, which tag manufacturer(s) will get the contract & benefit from selling the tag/chip.

more than likely it will be a tag (possibly electronic chip). the animal(s) will not need it until the animal LEAVES THE FARM OF ORIGIN. each farm (origin) will have a number or letter or code. each subsequent move from the initial move will be recorded all the way through slaughter. imo, it won't be a big deal for anyone who already keeps records of their cattle. it'll also be easy to get feedlot/carcass data on any calves which i think a lot more people would benefit from seeing.

my question is: Where have you people been who haven't heard of this before? This has been a big topic for almost two years now!

 

[Dana Kopp]

These are all excellent questions that need to have answers in order to get people to support the program. There are so many different things to take into account, cost (on several levels), tracking, info retrieval & storage, amongst others. I think there are so many unknowns as of yet that many people are afraid that they will be put out of business by the costs in a market that already could make you seasick with its ups & downs.

 

[georgia beef]

We all know that the USDA is able to trace a animal from the packers to the farm..AFter all they traced both cases of suspected disease back to the farms whre the cattle came from... Also the tainted ground beef that was traced from the store to the packer.. So therefore they can trace a animal... I'll also say this the UNITED STATES food supply is the safest in the world...We probably have more inspecters from the top down to the state and couty levels then any other country... I am am confident that every peice of meat that goes out of the stores are safe to eat.. and disease free.....

 

[Oldtimer]

This is out of Cow/Calf weekly e-mail I recieved- Its an article by Clint Peck on the ID program-


USDA Moves To Protect Animal ID Data

USDA has proposed legislation to cover confidentiality of information associated with the nation's animal ID system. The Animal Identification System Information Act would establish a system for withholding or disclosing information obtained through the animal ID system established by the Secretary of Agriculture.

The law would amend the Animal Health Protection Act and is designed to protect all ID data and prevent its use for other reasons such as country-of-origin labeling and provide for "trade secret" protection. Limited release of information to a government entity may be authorized if the USDA Secretary determines livestock may be threatened by a disease or pest, or is necessary to assist the Secretary in carrying out the purposes of the animal ID system.

The Secretary would be required to disclose information obtained through the animal ID system regarding particular animals and the person who owns or controls the animals, if the person requests such information in writing.

Other disclosures would be provided to:
The U.S. attorney general for the purpose of law enforcement;
The Secretary of Homeland Security for the purpose of homeland security;
The Secretary of Health and Human Services for the purpose of protecting the public health;
An entity pursuant to an order of a court
The government of a foreign country if disclosure of the information is necessary to trace animals that pose a disease or pest threat to livestock or a danger to human health
Under the proposed legislation, any information relating to animal ID that a state or local government obtains from the Secretary shall not be made available pursuant to state or local law requiring disclosure of information or records to the public.


Like Texan said "Its coming Folks"!!

 

[Texan]

We all know that the USDA is able to trace a animal from the packers to the farm..AFter all they traced both cases of suspected disease back to the farms whre the cattle came from... Also the tainted ground beef that was traced from the store to the packer.. So therefore they can trace a animal... I'll also say this the UNITED STATES food supply is the safest in the world...We probably have more inspecters from the top down to the state and couty levels then any other country... I am am confident that every peice of meat that goes out of the stores are safe to eat.. and disease free.....

Georgia Beef, its good to have your input representing the retail sector. I agree with you completely about the safety of our food supply. Very well said.

On the other hand, I have some trouble with the following statement:

We all know that the USDA is able to trace a animal from the packers to the farm.

I'm afraid that we don't all know that. Maybe I'm the only one that doesn't know it? What procedure does the USDA use to trace a box of t-bones from the packer back to all of the farms of origin where those calves were born? Or better yet, all of the trimmings from all of the individual animals that go into a chub? Please take us from the packer all the way back to every farm of origin to show us how they can do it. Because that is the intent of MID.

 

[river]

We all know that the USDA is able to trace a animal from the packers to the farm..AFter all they traced both cases of suspected disease back to the farms whre the cattle came from... Also the tainted ground beef that was traced from the store to the packer.. So therefore they can trace a animal... I'll also say this the UNITED STATES food supply is the safest in the world...We probably have more inspecters from the top down to the state and couty levels then any other country... I am am confident that every peice of meat that goes out of the stores are safe to eat.. and disease free..... by georgia beef

scuse me georgia beef but the suspected cases probbly came directly from the owner who had it for many years iifnot for its entire life but if it had been traded maybe as a dry 2 yrold put on grass them fattened in a feedlot pen of other cattle i doubt that anyone would be able to trace them. we need a traceback tagging system

 

[Wewild]

scuse me georgia beef but the suspected cases probbly came directly from the owner who had it for many years iifnot for its entire life but if it had been traded maybe as a dry 2 yrold put on grass them fattened in a feedlot pen of other cattle i doubt that anyone would be able to trace them.

Just a guess.... what ever government agency that swoops in after tracing the subject animal back to the seller (who sold to a sale barn or packer) will quarantine his herd until he gives up other possible sources.....who then will have their herds quarantined ....and so forth... until the governments desired solution is derived.

 

[Chuck]

This post is mostly from a PM I sent to another user last night. He asked me to repost my thoughts here. Sorry for the repetition of what others have said since. If you are offended,sorry-get over it. Happens to me all the time.
Some of us must live in a hollow tree. There are some here that think the public will buy your beef,raised the way you want to,no matter what. If they don't-screw em'
Some want an exemption because they only have a few cows. Try taking an interest in the industry that provides at least a small part of your living. Some say they knew nothing about this-didn't know it was coming. There is NO reasonable excuse for this. Even if you don't read everything on this board there are plenty of other places to learn what is going on in YOUR industry. Beef,Drovers,The High Plains Journal and a lot of other publications are out there and many of them are free. They have all had articles about this in them. I just got an offer to renew the HPJ for what figures out to be about 80 cents a week. Not a huge investment.
I agree with Campground that the government will probably screw this up,but who else can possibly put it together and make it work. I don't see a voluntary system working-everyone has to use it and it has to have penalties for trying to fudge. The diversity of opinions on this board alone says no cattlemens group will ever agree on anything,let alone be able to operate it. This business is no different than any other,if your customer demands something that you refuse to provide,you will not have that customer for long. Especially if the guy down the road is willing to meet that demand.

 

[Wewild]

This business is no different than any other,if your customer demands something that you refuse to provide,you will not have that customer for long. Especially if the guy down the road is willing to meet that demand.

Amen

I agree with Campground that the government will probably screw this up

Amen

but who else can possibly put it together and make it work. I don't see a voluntary system working-everyone has to use it and it has to have penalties for trying to fudge. The diversity of opinions on this board alone says no cattlemens group will ever agree on anything,let alone be able to operate it.

I still hate the thought. Maybe I'll get over it....................probably won't ever like it.....................Now I'm sure I won't.

 

[Craig-TX]

Chuck, you make several excellent points. One of them is that we in the industry must be responsive to customer demands. However, the beef customer is not demanding a Federal ID program. A bunch of pencil-necked bureaucrats, Japs and activists are demanding it. Along with the sensationalist press. They eat tofu, not beef. I would venture to guess that 999 out of 1,000 beef consumers couldn't care less about traceability and never give it a thought. Of course that doesn't change the odds of it being mandated some day. JMO.

Craig-TX

 

[Wewild]

[No message]