Ebola in the USA

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john250":2dr8r31c said:
Former cheif of staff for Al Gore. Whaddaya bet he calls for carbon controls to fight the epidemic?
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I believe in living on the edge and going all in with a pair of two's but even I wouldn't bet against the odds of them doing this.

Also what we need is a policy and some procedures. As long as we have this and we have a Czar then we can keep our porous borders and bring in as many west Africans we want. Many need, want and deserve a new phone.
 
Yep, rising temps in W Africa cause this. Eating bats and monkeys is incidental. Those folk are just unlucky they pay for our carbon sins. And China, and India. If we only paid $10/gal for diesel this could be a non-problem. Mr. Potus needs to visit the troops in W. Africa. Kiss a few nurses. Hug a few victims of our carbon emitting sins. I doubt he will.
 
Today was a day where the news hit closer to home than I desire. Stuff didn't get as real as knowing I had my arm down the throat of a rabies laden calf :shock:, but it had a profound effect on my world view.

Pre-school daughter who goes to a little private church school, was sent home with a note that a student at her school was on the ship with the "exposed" lab worker. Is she in danger tonight, no I don't think so as the worker has tested negative and has reached the full quarantine time schedule. But it placed the threat of piss poor border security and poor management of this whole deal right in my face, in black and white, double spaced, size 11x8.5 in. The thought that an infected person from Africa crossed the Atlantic, was hospitalized in Dallas and could have exposed a health care worker, who came in contact with an elementary child, who could have come in contact with mine.

Infected guy
Lab employee
Kid
Then my kid.

Found a potential path to our house pretty dang quick.

Something to ponder for a moment.
 
But CF, we now have a Czar and we pay this fella a whole pile of money to do what all the other bureaucrats can't do.

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my wife has told me that if it makes it into one school in florida she is pulling our son out for at least the 21 days...if nothing pops up she will CONSIDER sending him back maybe in 30.
my son just had a little cold this weekend...and i know it was just a cold but ..hmm..some kind of BAD virus..take yer pick..we got a cpl goin on tight now.

cf did ya do anyhting diff...
 
You live and learn and I must say I was soooo wrong a couple of years ago. I had a friend from the UK come over hunting and he killed a nice trophy he wanted to have mounted. He talked to his taxidermist and he said it would be best to have a taxidermist here tan the hide and clean the skull then he could put it on a form and mount it in the UK. This would save a lot of packaging and shipping problems.

With that in mind I carried the deer to a local taxidermist who has been doing this work for over 30 years. He was the best in the area but not cheap but cost wasn't a factor with this once in a lifetime deer mount. I got everything back and it smelled like a new car with leather. I then set out to ship it to him only to run into a gauntlet of bureaucracy. First of all, no one at any of the agencies you thought would have jurisdiction over this knew the proper way to do it nor the regulations involved. Same way on the other side of the pond. Finally I found a person with the Dept of Ag who was a vet and she would have to inspect the animal and give me a permit number once I got a permit number from the DHS in the UK. But they refused to give a permit number until I had one from the US. Little pizzing match I guess. I was in to this for six months now bottled up in their bureaucracy and I wasn't a happy camper. Finally the vet told me she would inspect it and give me a number needed by DHS and this way the process would begin but she would have to inspect it. I was shocked that she did not require me to send the deer to her for inspection. No ... all she needed was a check from me for $100 and once this cleared it was "inspected". Same with the UK but they wanted $150 for their inspection.

The Dept of Ag sent me a package that was best filled out by a scientist and I had to call to get some help in filling it out. Many of the pages were not applicable and I have no clue why they sent them to me with a letter stating I needed to fill them all out. It was frustrating, especially when I learn that the UK is requiring the taxidermist work be done by a European Union Certified Taxidermist. WTF! And no, my guy is not. But there was one in Texas and he said he would "re-do" everything for $400. I might not be the smartest fella in the world but I don't think there are but a few ways to tan a hide and do a skull mount and I'm pretty sure all taxidermists are doing it all about the same.

Anyhow, this process was looking to total out at about $1200 for all the BS. I told him that they were acting like this deer had ebola. I see now I was wrong. Had it had ebola on I wouldn't have had to waste all my time trying to do things right, I could have just stuck it on a plane and shipped it ..... which we ended up doing anyway.

But to think they take a tanned deer hide so seriously yet they just want to allow anyone to fly from a plague region just doesn't make sense.
 
The bad part is you get a different answer for every different person you talk to that should know. I flew to Missouri for many years with a rifle. Same airports each time. No one knew what the exact rules were for weapons and ammo. I once left a brand new box of Winchester ballistic silver tips in St. Louis because some moron didn't know what the regs were and I didn't have time to argue it.
All dotgov does is employ a bunch of people that couldn't get a job otherwise, and complicate te simple things that the rest of us know should be
 
Jogeephus":17w6em4b said:
Its insane isn't it? Just a money grab with no substance or use.
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Jo, I'm not sure why on earth they'd not actually inspect the thing, but in terms of why they'd care about a taxidermied deer, here's one possible reason. About an hour away from me, a local taxidermist (who also ran a small game/deer farm) donated venison for a fire dept dinner. Story here: http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2005/04 ... 112650696/

What the story doesn't talk about is that they (I think Cornell, probably) eventually traced the chronic wasting disease (CWD) in the local deer population to an elk hide that he was preparing (it was shipped to him from out West). As I said, he ran sort of a game farm, and a fawn from the farm nosed the hide, thereby contracted CWD, then spread it to a few other deer. The fawn grew and was later slaughtered for the fire dept meal, where it was served to something like 70 possible people. CWD eats away the animal's brain and is fatal. There is some evidence that it can be passed to humans. So everyone that ate at the dinner that night (I know one of them) is undergoing ongoing monitoring, for the rest of their lives, to make sure they don't develop the human version of the disease. If they do, it's fatal. It takes decades to develop so they are living with that every day.

I don't know if this incident led directly or indirectly to the woes you had. It's possible that once they realized that hides were capable of transmitting CWD to live animals (and potentially humans), they made it very hard to ship them...Doesn't excuse not actually inspecting it and taking your money (!), but I thought you might find this story interesting.

Although they haven't found any more CWD cases in local deer the past few years, it still kinda turns you off venison. it didn't take much, in my case, since I never thought it tasted that great anyway. Everyone else around here eats it though, and I'm sure it's only a theoretical risk, like having the Acme piano fall on your head.
 
boondocks":37k0h1am said:
Jogeephus":37k0h1am said:
Its insane isn't it? Just a money grab with no substance or use.
Click to expand...

Jo, I'm not sure why on earth they'd not actually inspect the thing, but in terms of why they'd care about a taxidermied deer, here's one possible reason. About an hour away from me, a local taxidermist (who also ran a small game/deer farm) donated venison for a fire dept dinner. Story here: http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2005/04 ... 112650696/

What the story doesn't talk about is that they (I think Cornell, probably) eventually traced the chronic wasting disease (CWD) in the local deer population to an elk hide that he was preparing (it was shipped to him from out West). As I said, he ran sort of a game farm, and a fawn from the farm nosed the hide, thereby contracted CWD, then spread it to a few other deer. The fawn grew and was later slaughtered for the fire dept meal, where it was served to something like 70 possible people. CWD eats away the animal's brain and is fatal. There is some evidence that it can be passed to humans. So everyone that ate at the dinner that night (I know one of them) is undergoing ongoing monitoring, for the rest of their lives, to make sure they don't develop the human version of the disease. If they do, it's fatal. It takes decades to develop so they are living with that every day.

I don't know if this incident led directly or indirectly to the woes you had. It's possible that once they realized that hides were capable of transmitting CWD to live animals (and potentially humans), they made it very hard to ship them...Doesn't excuse not actually inspecting it and taking your money (!), but I thought you might find this story interesting.

Although they haven't found any more CWD cases in local deer the past few years, it still kinda turns you off venison. it didn't take much, in my case, since I never thought it tasted that great anyway. Everyone else around here eats it though, and I'm sure it's only a theoretical risk, like having the Acme piano fall on your head.
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To tie this back to Ebola:
I guess if a bureaucrat can look at a person vomiting on a plane and guarantee that they don't have Ebola, why can't they take a glance at tanned hide and guarantee it doesn't have CWD? I mean, if they were high enough rank and all. Of course, the average person would need a laboratory confirmation which wouldn't be done anyway without direct suspicion.


As far as the hide thing.... wasn't it the FDA that claims that the prion exposure is mostly from neurological and bone tissue? I'm betting that someone slipped an infected domesticated deer across state lines or something to that effect. It's been rampant in domestic herds for sometime.

Maybe my first impression is wrong and the guy isn't bright. But I wouldn't leave a trophy elk hide that was worth shipping across the country in a location to accessed by another animal- dog, calf, fawn, whatever. Doesn't seem like a smart business decision if your a taxidermist besides the health hazard that isn't a health hazard. Maybe like Ebola, it's easier to transmit than catch? I think it's a new medical concept. You know, like people shouldn't be afraid to use public transportation, because you can't catch it from public transportation. But possible carriers shouldn't use public transportation because they might transmit it to others. Maybe the prion is only stored in neurological and boney tissue, but animals shouldn't be exposed to hide because it might be infectious?

If the prion does store periodically in other tissue, maybe they should go back to using pentichloriphenol that was banned in the 80's in the tanning process. Seems phenols do a number on the prion. Or maybe that wasn't the whole story, but an easy way to call it a day?
 
Oneida County Health Department spokesman Ken Fanelli said people who consumed the deer did not need to worry about contracting the disease, according to the Utica Observer Dispatch.

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2005/04 ... z3Gx9WzRtB
Boondocks, you comprehend what you read different than I do. I like venison myself but I can see why some folks don't care for it. Has CWD ever killed a human yet? Has CWD ever passed from a deer to a human? The best I could comprehend from a few Internet searches is no.
But Ebola has killed plenty and is easily transferred between humans. And our jackass is doing nothing to stop the spread of this deadly disease in this country.
 
highgrit":1ye5hs7d said:
Oneida County Health Department spokesman Ken Fanelli said people who consumed the deer did not need to worry about contracting the disease, according to the Utica Observer Dispatch.

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2005/04 ... z3Gx9WzRtB
Boondocks, you comprehend what you read different than I do. I like venison myself but I can see why some folks don't care for it. Has CWD ever killed a human yet? Has CWD ever passed from a deer to a human? The best I could comprehend from a few Internet searches is no.
But Ebola has killed plenty and is easily transferred between humans. And our jackass is doing nothing to stop the spread of this deadly disease in this country.
Click to expand...

I don't know if there was a subsequent concern raised or what. Not that close to the situation but have been told by people directly involved that they are still being watched to make sure. We don't know a whole lot about prions yet. They are very hardy bits of infectious proteins; nonliving yet hard to get rid of...

I think there's plenty of blame to go around on the Ebola thing. No one has acquitted themselves particularly well in my book. We need to start funding research science more and not assume the private sector can handle it all. Re Ebola, Africans (by and large) can't afford Western-style meds (or vaccines) so none were developed by the private pharmaceutical companies. That's all well and fine until all of a sudden we need it ourselves. Then we expect it to be available on the spot.

Some balls have been seriously dropped the past few weeks. But in terms of the drug development side of things, if, at this time last year, our taxes had been paying to bring the as-yet-experimental ZMapp treatment (or other Ebola meds/vaccines) fully to market (and maybe subsidized for affected countries), half the US would have been screaming about "our hard-earned tax dollars going to treat those #@!." We need to think bigger-picture, and longer-term, and realize that we need to invest in science for our own sake, if nothing else. By the time we need a vaccine for something like this, it's too late.
 

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