BFE
Well-known member
Maybe where you're at. I don't much of else that will appreciate over time, provide a return every year, and has always been and will always be here.
Counting Your Money
- Thread starter Lucky
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BFE
Well-known member
Not here. Cash rents for tillable acres are stupid high.
Lucky
Well-known member
I strongly disagree with both of yall on this. I do understand why people feel this way though.
Lucky
Well-known member
I laid it out pretty simple just to see what folks line of thinking was. $30,000 was feed,fuel,spraying, repairs, labor,etc. $12,000 was for a land payment on land you own. This could be your house payment or pasture, really doesn't matter. $18,000 went to a 5 yr cattle note. This could be a repayment to yourself or the bank. Either way you spent $30k you will never see again and $30k on something you keep but doesn't cashflow for you.
Little Joe
Well-known member
Isn't that the case with anything, not worth anything until you cash it out. To me just having cash lying around doing nothing is worthless. I don't know anyone who got wealthy just holding onto all their cash, they had to invest it in something that then goes up in value . Land is a great investment, it's not like they can make more of it and flood the market.
Ouachita
Well-known member
If you want to make some real money, let your kids and grandkids show goats at the county fair and all the goat shows around 
After pondering Luckys question a bit more, I realize that if I didn't have cattle;
I'd still own a couple of old tractors and the implements I have.
Racking my brain, I think the only additional "things" I have to support the cattle are the cross fencing, the working pen/chute, a dart gun, and a dedicated spray rig.
I don't own any haying equipment except a bale spear. I never will. I can't make it pencil out.
I'm under stocked at 30 head, but my place can support 60 momma's if I do more cross fencing, and continue to add lime and manage soil nutrients.
So, my answer to this question is; I would make good money. That is, all things being equal and only counting the additional expenses I'd have for infrastructure to support the cattle.
In fact, I can't spend it all
After pondering Luckys question a bit more, I realize that if I didn't have cattle;
I'd still own a couple of old tractors and the implements I have.
Racking my brain, I think the only additional "things" I have to support the cattle are the cross fencing, the working pen/chute, a dart gun, and a dedicated spray rig.
I don't own any haying equipment except a bale spear. I never will. I can't make it pencil out.
I'm under stocked at 30 head, but my place can support 60 momma's if I do more cross fencing, and continue to add lime and manage soil nutrients.
So, my answer to this question is; I would make good money. That is, all things being equal and only counting the additional expenses I'd have for infrastructure to support the cattle.
In fact, I can't spend it all
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Son of Butch
Well-known member
I was going to say the IRS has the final say, but yes, you made money depending on how the expenses are broken down and claimed when you file, so maybe not.
callmefence
Keyboard cowboy
Know a guy that sells a lot of show pigs for a lot of money. He gives me the really ugly ones. Story of my life.........If you want to make some real money, let your kids and grandkids show goats at the county fair and all the goat shows around
Ouachita
Well-known member
Can you tell a difference when you poke a fork in it?
"Made money" is not exactly an accounting term with a definition. If I type it in to Google it says making a profit which aligns with how I use the term.
Based on that, no, you did not make money. The rest of the world would value your cattle business based on the value of your assets, at best, and nothing more.
Based on that, no, you did not make money. The rest of the world would value your cattle business based on the value of your assets, at best, and nothing more.
Ebenezer
Well-known member
So cash, stock, ____ are a sure bet? Not really. But like it or not, you have to do turnover as soon as you can on livestock to a reasonable point. In purebred or in herds where longevity is a goal there are some that will stay around longer. The key is to not keep too many too long to age out ($ wise) on the farm. I cannot imagine how much money I have saved over the years as a farmer: no spa fees, no golf attire or costs, no game tickets, no motor boat, no snow skis, no real vacations, no suits... and I look forward to what I do today, tomorrow and years ahead. The key on farming is to minimize spending unless there are good years to buy needs. And if a piece of equipment is a true short term need: hire it or buy it and resell it.
I see it a little different, if I pay cash for my land and cattle, I have 30k cash flow. Granted it will be a low return on my investment.
farmerjan
Well-known member
Yes, I would make money because I have to live somewhere and the land/mtg payment will get returned if I sell it as opposed to rent I will never get a return on.... the land will support me in hard times with food from growing my own vegetables and things... provide me with meat in my freezer in the form of my own beef or wild harvested game.... the land will give me a "safe haven" that I can protect if need be, a place to come home to that no one can tell me to get out (granted as long as I make the payments until I "own it"... not counting the taxes and such)
My cows are all bought and paid for so like @acefire , I see it as a cash flow without having the cattle payments. Not a ton of money, but more than I had before... and not getting charged an exhorbitant interest rate. The cows are like money in the bank... yep, they can drop dead tomorrow... but the way the market is going, the money in the bank could be worth nothing tomorrow too... and you can't eat the money but you can eat the cattle.
My cows are all bought and paid for so like @acefire , I see it as a cash flow without having the cattle payments. Not a ton of money, but more than I had before... and not getting charged an exhorbitant interest rate. The cows are like money in the bank... yep, they can drop dead tomorrow... but the way the market is going, the money in the bank could be worth nothing tomorrow too... and you can't eat the money but you can eat the cattle.
Louthelivestockguy
Active member
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Yes that's true. And exactly why the newer generations are usually looking to sell their family farms to cash in and live the easier lives!!
Similar situation. The farm does more for me than income. I heat with wood vs gas saving about 3-5K per year. Got income from hunters which more than covers property taxes. I'm probably sitting on 1000lbs of meat in the freezers right now that the farm provided at fairly low cost. It also forces me to get off my a$$ and do some physical work which I don't do at my job.
BFE
Well-known member
Exactly. It's hard to eat stock notes.
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
You don't own that land either, that's an illusion.
If you think you really own it stop paying the property tax.
You rent that asset.
libertygarden
Well-known member
It depends. Land appreciation while it does not generate cashflow can be leveraged. Since 2016 when I bought my acreage, my property has gone up in value 5 times, but since it's ag exempt, my property taxes are nothing. That's a lot better than any other investment in my portafolio. Plus, my little 62 acre ranch generates quite a bit of expenses on improvements that appreciate its value that go right against my real job income, so I don't send that much to Uncle Sugar every year. The cow sales are just the cherry on cake for me. Lastly, I have loads of fun. If I ever get tired of running a ranching operation, I can always lease or hay the property. Yes, land is not very liquid, but 1, it can be leveraged; 2, once ag exempt the taxes are nothing, and 3, it provides options like leasing or a fall back location if the city life becomes too unbearable.
Ky hills
Well-known member
The example that @Caustic Burno gave fits us to a t. If we were to sell out, it looks like we would be millionaires, but we sure don't live like it.
I have often thought about trying to sell the land and probably eventually will.
I'd like to find a decent spread of land similar or a little smaller. I've always had cattle, and always want to have enough land to run a few cows, and have a few chickens, and be far enough away that you aren't in plain sight of neighbors all around.
I agree with @greybeard it ain't always about money. So far we eat good, and have what we need. The cows don't bring in much money, but we somehow manage to pay our bills, and the short term rental house is keeping us going currently. A lot of things I could have done differently over the years that I think would have set me up better, but have never been in great health and was always reluctant to branch out.
The land here for the most part isn't cropland, and even though it's hilly it's real good grazing land. It grows some big houses too.
There are a lot of out of state people coming in and farms have been getting lotted off for years. A neighbor wouldn't even price his farm to locals, and finally sold it to a Dr.
I have often thought about trying to sell the land and probably eventually will.
I'd like to find a decent spread of land similar or a little smaller. I've always had cattle, and always want to have enough land to run a few cows, and have a few chickens, and be far enough away that you aren't in plain sight of neighbors all around.
I agree with @greybeard it ain't always about money. So far we eat good, and have what we need. The cows don't bring in much money, but we somehow manage to pay our bills, and the short term rental house is keeping us going currently. A lot of things I could have done differently over the years that I think would have set me up better, but have never been in great health and was always reluctant to branch out.
The land here for the most part isn't cropland, and even though it's hilly it's real good grazing land. It grows some big houses too.
There are a lot of out of state people coming in and farms have been getting lotted off for years. A neighbor wouldn't even price his farm to locals, and finally sold it to a Dr.
BFE
Well-known member
Always got all the answers. Just like every other smart son of a gun I ever known.
Fact remains it cash flows with payments and really works good when it's paid at the bank.
