cab if you want the facts less than 25 % of blackhided make

[Victoria]

I don't know anything about the numbers but I know two things. Around here all the best restaurants (and Burger King ) make it known that they use Angus beef. Angus has become synonymous with best quality. Is it true? The better question is does it matter if it is true or not? It's all about marketing and Angus is doing a fine job on marketing.
The second thing is the best steak I have ever had was Red Angus. Went to a sale and got served a nice well done steak and was given a little tiny plastic knife and fork. When I could cut it easily with that plastic knife I knew I was about to experience my dream steak. It was the best thing I have ever tasted.

 

[txag]

Why, it was an Angus survey, of course. Here's a link to the article. Looks like we need to send out the GEICO guy and his gecko to look for that other 3%.

http://www.angusjournal.com/aj_article1.html?CID=4604

You might be more interested in a Western Livestock Journal survey that showed only 68.8% of their readers are using Angus bulls. That doesn't seem so bad (or good), until you drop down to the 2nd most used breed at 13.2. It was interesting to me, too, that Red Angus and Hereford were tied for second place. I also wish there was some way to compare this one to their past surveys.

http://www.wlj.net/images/rc_04bullsurvey.pdf

and you might be interested in this sale report (especially note that the 34 head of hereford bulls averaged more than the top-selling angus bull sold for) :

http://www.port-city.com/SS.HLSR.PCSRel ... Female.pdf

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Jeanne, I'm just curious about the following:

In the above post you made reference to 7/8 Sim 1/8 Angus black simmies. In the next paragraph you referred to Sim x Angus carcasses grading 76% Choice --- were those 50/50Sim/Angus crosses? Or were you suggesting that 1/8 Angus influenced purebred Simmies in the study graded 76% Choice?

No, I was just making a point that all purebred Simmentals could have (at most) 1/8% of any other breeds. Believe me, the majority of the black bloodlines would have a miniscular % of angus.

The research was on 50/50 SXA. Sorry I didn't make that clear.

GWH - I have been unable to get the actual research. ASA was supposed to get it for me, but so far nothing. I too was curious about the 2nd places in the Continental & British. Do you have access to the MARC research info?? I got my info from an ASA ad about crossbreeding solutions.
But it was direct MARC info.

Since Simmental is a Continental breed, everyone associates them as being late maturing & poor marbling - where just the opposite is true. Heavy milking breeds are early maturing & marble well. Gelbvieh should also fall into this catagory since they too are heavy milkers.

 

[1848]

Around here all the best restaurants (and Burger King ) make it known that they use Angus beef. Angus has become synonymous with best quality. Is it true? The better question is does it matter if it is true or not? It's all about marketing and Angus is doing a fine job on marketing.

Victoria,

Angus is synonimous with quality because they had a standard for quality beef years before other breeds, and it worked to their advantage. It is not the aniaml (Angus), it is the standard they have for grading the carcass. The requirement for the Certified Angus Beef program is 51% black hided. Nothing else. Although there are now other programs branching off CAB, and independent that are requireing Angus in the carcass/animal. A certifed Angus beef steak may very well be 100% semmintal. You are right, and I have said this all along. It's all about marketing.

 

[1848]

and you might be interested in this sale report (especially note that the 34 head of hereford bulls averaged more than the top-selling angus bull sold for) :

Interesting note TXAG!

I also noticed that the higest grading bull was a Charolais, and that the high selling bull was not an Angus! The champion pen of commercial females and the high selling female lot went to some F1 Brahman/ Hereford crosses, who happen to have a terminal cross on them of Angus. I'm sure this is so they could meet the CAB specs of 51% black. Those calves might make some tasty CAB beef despite their brahman/hereford influence...



http://www.port-city.com/SS.HLSR.PCSRel ... Female.pdf[/quote]

 

[Frankie]

GWH wrote

The 30% figure has been exceeded in some years, however. I just took 1848 at his/her word on that, and I don't think 1848 stated that was the absolute number. 17% is still impressive. And Ridgefield is USDA certified. Get yourself a copy of Hereford America. They cover Ridgefield much more than HW. There are actually black bulls advertised in HA, and it wouldn't hurt you to brush up on your Hereford knowledge before you debate them ;-) :lol: I'll pay attention if you will. Still friends?

Yes, 30% has been exeeded in other years. However, the claim was for last year. A true friend won't lead you astray and make you look foolish. # did state that as absolute figure, and so did you. So who is your friend here? And who actually knows something about CHB sales? I think I win that contest in this instance. Yes, it is impressive. But, again, when you're starting from a few million pounds, it's easier to increase sales by double digits than when you're selling half a billion pounds a year. Growth of CHB and CAB were both down last year because of events outside their control.

 

[Frankie]

Jeannie, I'll take you at your word that's a compliment. I'm not a breed basher and I expect Angus (and CAB) to take some hits on these boards. When you're #1, everyone is taking their best shot. But when the foolish or misinformed (take your choice) people put out inaccurate info, I can take time to respond.

You have your opinions; I have mine and they don't necessarily agree with yours. But opinions are just that.

Several weeks ago on the Ranchers site, a Charolais breeder posted a link to a bull test that his bulls had just completed. Being a bull test-junkie, I followed the link. He had good reason to be proud. His bulls had reasonable BWs and had gained well on test. They weren't the highest among the breed, but certainly good performing bulls. He made a comment to the effect "now we've got to get people to understand Chars aren't cow killers." (I don't remember the exact wording of the statement) Just out of curiosity, I clicked on the Angus section of the same bull test. There were probably more Angus bulls on the test than all the other breeds combined. I think you'll find that at most major test stations across the US. But what struck me was that the Angus yearling weights were comparable to the Charolais bulls' yearling weights on that test. Not all of them, of course, but overall comparable.

I tell this story because, IMO, it was a mistake for breeds to chase Angus. Simmental, for example, has spent years downsizing, polling, moderating BW, creating a polled solid red or black bull. Anyone who wanted that could buy either Angus or Red Angus; why should they buy Simmental? The Charolais strength, IMO, is as a terminal sire. By trying to get BWs down, at least some of them have hurt their yearling weights. I can't say that's wrong; time will tell. The Limousin people have been working on a lot of things, fertility, disposition, and to increase marbling. I don't know how they're doing on fertility and disposition, but from what I read, while they may have improved marbling, they're hurting their yield grades, the very strength of Limousin. No, I'm not going to provide proof of that.

 

[Frankie]

I'm baaaack.

See my answers to the underlined references below.. :roll:

And we know that calves sired by registered Angus bulls meet the CAB specs at a higher rate. I'm calling BS.

If we know the only requirement for CAB is 51% black, then who is doing the research on Angus sired calves for the CAB? Biased Angus people?.. :lol:

Feeders, packers, extension agents, alliances…. There is a long list of people who want to know the genetics of their cattle, follow their performance, and look to improve it.

You, who claimed you saw several big ranchers say they wouldn't own a black bull, but refused to say who or where. You've haven't got standing to call BS

Who care who they are...do you actually need names!!...oh...my...gosh!

Are you mtman in drag now?

Says, who? Given the fact that Angus is number one for registrations, and everybody else is a distant second, with Hereford, Red Angus, and Charolais in there too, plus the fact that Limousin and Gelbvieh still records around 45-50% red bulls, and Simmental is around 25% red bulls, I'd say that way over 60%, and probably over 70% of the cattle that get a "tryout" for CAB are already Angus sired

Remember Frankie,...We are talking registrations here. That dosn't mean all those little bulls registered by "the largest" breed Assoc. get to grow up and be sires. Hmmmm. Let's see..largest Assoc., most registrations...duh!

"Probably" 70% Frankie! I'm pulling the BS flag up on you to back it up!
That was purely speculation, and out of character for you, since you seem to rely on everyone else on this board to back there statements up. Let me see some stats!...cmon..

I think what you meant to say is they might be black or 50% black, but of course to you that means Angus quality because surely, Limi's, Mains, and Brangus, and all the other breeds that ride the Angus' back arn't doing any beef quality advancements on their own...surely!

Yes, it's "out of character" for me because it's not my quote! It's mtnman's quote. Refer to the original post. It's a sorry, low attempt on your part to claim I said these things above. Shame on you. Your momma would not be proud of you.

You can "say" whatever you want and it doesn't seem to matter much to you that you don't have anything to back it up. So, I say prove to me (and everyone else on this board) what percentage of Limi, Gelbvieh are actually red. I get to Limousin bull sales occasionally, and way less than half of them are usually red. And the breeder takes a hit on those. You're right about registrations, though. Here are some facts you might be interested in:

Geeeez. First you want to slam other breeds that moved from black, then you want to discredit them and give the credit to Angus for them being black, then you say most of the CAB grading cattle (you know the ones that only have to be 51% "black", not Angus) are infact being sired by Angus, but you are only "probably" sure on this one...I think I am going to be sick!.. :shock: :lol:

Chuckle. I've said over and over that IMO it was a mistake for other breeds to turn black. But that's not my call; it's theirs. The rest of this makes no sense. You should see a doctor immediately.

See below for more BS!

In response to a survey of ranchers:
97% say they have Angus genetics influence in their herds
(Hereford next, way down at 32%)
70% say they buy only Angus bulls
97% said they have bought an Angus bull within the last five years
69% sell their calves at the sale barn

They mean they have "black" influence :shock:

You have no way to know that.

They mean they bought "black" bulls

And you have no way to know this, either. You would like to think so. But we do know for sure they didn't buy Hereford bulls, don't we?

I would be willing to bet 70% don't know Angus from Limi, from brangus, from Main, and I'm sure I would be at least "70%" accurate...probably! :shock:

70% of who? The people that receive the Angus Beef Bulletin? You're getting desperate here.

I can't tell you how many people I have seen call a black animal Angus. Ever heard of Formica...you know the countertop stuff? It's a "brand name", but everybody calls it Formica.

Sure, like black cattle with ear are called "Brangus" or white faced cattle are called "Hereford", a lot of black cattle are called "Angus." So what your point?

I would say 69% of America sell there cattle in a sale barn..."not" counting sale barns for registered sales. :roll:

According to this survey, 69% of US cattlemen sell their cattle at the sale barn. But about half the cattle sold in the US last year were sold on a grid basis. And that's expected to go up and up over the next few years. The number Alliances and producers targeting a specific market will continue to grow and most Alliances and branded beef programs prefer Angus genetics. See the USDA Branded Beef site for proof of that. Because of the millions of records on the AHIR database, Angus EPDs are the most reliable in the business. When producers get serious about making money, and some of us are, that's where they'll turn.

That felt kinda good! :lol:

Of course, it does. Some people get such pleasure from bashing anything more successful than them; apparently you're one of those types.

 

[mtnman]

Frankie:

ONE MORE TIME, AND YES, I AM SHOUTING SINCE YOU ARE APPARENTLY SO THICKHEADED THAT YOU CAN'T HEAR IT NORMALLY. THE MARC DATA I REFERENCED IS NOT AVAILABLE ONLINE SINCE IT IS FROM THE OLDER REPORTS, THEREFORE YOU MUST CNTACT THEM DIRECTLY TO GET IT, IS THIS CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YU TO UNDERSTAND NOW?

I FIND IT HUMOROUS THAT YOU WOULD CONTINUE TO CAST DISPARITY ON PEOPLE OIN THE BOARDS THAT SIMPLY HAVE NO WAY TO PROVIDE THE INFORMATION YOU REQIRE SINCE IT IS UNAVAILABLE.

I DO NOT UNDERSTAND YOUR TYPE OF IGNORANCE>

mtnman

 

[mtnman]

And we know that calves sired by registered Angus bulls meet the CAB specs at a higher rate. I'm calling BS.


Says, who? Given the fact that Angus is number one for registrations, and everybody else is a distant second, with Hereford, Red Angus, and Charolais in there too, plus the fact that Limousin and Gelbvieh still records around 45-50% red bulls, and Simmental is around 25% red bulls, I'd say that way over 60%, and probably over 70% of the cattle that get a "tryout" for CAB are already Angus sired.

I'll stick by my guns, the Y 4's are what kills the chances for CAB after meeting upper 2/3 choice. If you want more CAB, breed those black cows to a high marbling Continental, you can consistently beat 30% CAB, and possibly much better. I've known guys that make 60%, and this is on 300 or more head in a pen, not some set-up purebred deal where there are 15, and it's called 100% CAB, I'm talking 60% on 300 head, which is way better than any Straightbred Angus you'll hear about.

mtnman

FRANKIE: I AM REPOSTING THIS POST SINCE YOU OBVIOSULY DIDN"T READ IT THOROUGHLY ENOUGH, IN THIS POST, i CLEARLY STATED THAT Y4 IS THE DECIDING FACTOR IN CAB QUALIFICATIONS AFTER CHOICE HAS BEEN MET. AFTER CHOICE HAS BEEN MET, AFTER CHOICE HAS BEEN MET, AFTER CHOICE HAS BEEN MET, AFTERCHOICE HAS BEEN MET, CONTINENTALS HAVE SOME TROUBLE GRADING CHOICE, ANGUS CAN DO IT, BUT THEN THERE ARE TOO MANY Y4'S, TOO MANY Y4's, TOO MANY Y4's, TOO MANY Y4's. THEREFORE, IF A RANCHER TAKES A HERD OF ANGUS COWS, AND PLACES A HIGH MARBLING CONTINENTAL BULL ON THEM, HE CAN THERFORE EASILY ATTAIN A HIGHER % CAB SINCE THE MARBLING COMES FROM BOTH SIDES, AND THE CONTINENTAL INFLUENCE CAN TRIM THE FAT.

ARE YOU GETTING IT THIS TIME, OR ARE YOU GOING TO CONTINUE ON YOU "ANGUS IS THE BEST" BENT?

mtnman