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cab if you want the facts less than 25 % of blackhided make

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Anonymous

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if you want the facts on cab go to http://www.certifiedangusbeef.com
scroll down and on the right side click on how do i participate

read the facts out of some 9 million head of black hided animals run through their own 32 feed lots only 1.9 million head made the grade

whats so special about that and whos to say those 1.9 million haead wee not holseion or some other breed?? any breed will meet that standard of 20 % meeting the grade. cab is a joke j0ke joke
 

Frankie

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"if you want the facts on cab go to http://www.certifiedangusbeef.com
scroll down and on the right side click on how do i participate"

It's right out there for anyone to read. No secret, cheating, fraud as John has claimed.

"read the facts out of some 9 million head of black hided animals run through their own 32 feed lots only 1.9 million head made the grade"

CAB specs are hard to meet. We know that animals sired by a registered Angus bull meet the specs at a higher rate than generic black cattle. CAB doesn't own a feedlot. They license feedlots to feed potential CAB cattle, just as they license restaurants to sell CAB.

"whats so special about that and whos to say those 1.9 million haead wee not holseion or some other breed?? "

That 1.9 million head probably had some Holstein, Brangas, Hereford, etc., blood in them. But they were BLACK. That's the first requirement to be certified CAB.

"any breed will meet that standard of 20 % meeting the grade. cab is a joke j0ke joke"

I doubt it. If that were true some other breed would have started a similar program for their breed. Instead Limi, Simi, Maine, have incorporated Angus into their breeds to try and meet those specs. Lots of Hereford breeders are using Angus bulls to get the black baldies that can possibly fit either CAB or CHB specs. As far as I know, no other beef association has tried to match the CAB specs. But talk's cheap; let's see your proof that "any breed will meet that standard of 20%"...
 

wayneintexas

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Apparently, you didn't finish school because the answer to your questions, "What's so special about that?" and "Whose to say those aren't holsteins or some other breed?" are very simple, somewhat like you. First, many of the 80% that failed to pass the minimum criteria are of other breeds, who just happened to have more than 50% black hides. They however, could pass the most important test of tender jucy meat which is IMF. You would be hard pressed to find a holstein with IMF of greater than 4. Most of the Angus steers can't even meet that part of the requirments, and they have one of the best breed averages in the world for IMF. So, we can say with much certainty, very few, if any holsteins made it through the selection process. Second, of those Angus that did meet the minimum for IMF, some of those missed the cut because they failed the Yield Grade part of the selection process. In the end, of the few that made it through, most are Angus or Angus crosses. Some might say, "Wayne, does it make you mad when a Sim or Chi makes it into a box of Certified Angus Beef, just because they have black hides?" The answer is no. If those breeders are smarter, and have better genetics than 80% of the so called Angus Breeders, then they deserve to get in. After all, we aren't in the chicken business, we are in the BEEF business, and Certified Angus Beef is the best beef. Now that we have seperated the men from the boys, let me say in closing, that the people who market CAB wish a few more of you guys would catch up to the rest of us because they can sell more than we can produce. There just aren't enough of us that know what we are doing, to fill all the orders. We could use a little help.
 

ga. prime

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Wayne, That semi-literate "guest" has been sleeping since his poorly thought-out, silly, ridiculous, ludicrous, de-constructive, and overwhelmingly pointless post. Let's try not to wake him. :)
 

Three T

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That ranks as one of the top 5 dumbest post i've ever read ! (but it did get me to reg. instead of just reading) ;-)
 

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A great deal of the cattle that don't qualify for CAB are Black and cattle that are YG 4 and 5, thus disqualifying htemselves. The best way to increase CAB on a Black Angus cowherd to to crossbred with some higher marbling Continentals. Most folks that take this tact boost CAB from 20-25% to up over 50% on the first generation.

1st problem is making them grade choice, which isn't too tough really, then making them upper two-thirds, but YG 1-3 gets tougher to do, so the higher marbling Continentals are great for doing that. But, alas, the AAA doesn't want to really help you make for CAB, they just want to sell you another Angus bull, thus keeping CAB acceptance down.

mtnman
 

1848

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Good point "Guest". Glad to see they are up this year from 18%! :shock:

Frankie":5a8qnivc said:
I doubt it. If that were true some other breed would have started a similar program for their breed. Instead Limi, Simi, Maine, have incorporated Angus into their breeds to try and meet those specs. Lots of Hereford breeders are using Angus bulls to get the black baldies that can possibly fit either CAB or CHB specs. As far as I know, no other beef association has tried to match the CAB specs. But talk's cheap; let's see your proof that "any breed will meet that standard of 20%"...

First of all, there are other certified branded beef programs out there.

Hmmm? Try Hereford........ 65 to 75% and higher qualify for the CHB. Granted, the specs are different for CAB, and given the same specs the Hereford would be right there with the Angus, but "fortunately" the CHB recognizes additional value in the carcass measured at the Choice and select level, which in turn helps other breeds market their feeder cattle at a higher price. Moreover, many of the Hereford crosses (ie: the black baldie) is what is used to fill the CAB requirements, so in some since Angus rides the backs of Herefords (along with most other breeds which have incorporated black) to get their 20%! CHB has grown significantly in the last few years, last year gaining upwards of 30% in growth. And yes, Dodge city has a grading program (matching CAB) which limits CHB program cattle to "exclusively" choice product... :p

Secondly, It seems as though I remember you adimately trying to discredit other breeds that incorporated Angus under the "Red vs Black" post a couple of weeks ago, and that they did themselves a "diservice", yet you don't mind CAB using their carcass for there 51% black program!

Frankie":5a8qnivc said:
I think breeds that turned black did themselves a disservice. They can downsize, breed for marbling, turn them black, but they're still not Angus. In the meantime, some of them have gotten away from the qualities that made their breed popular in the first place.

The requirement is still for the animal to be 51% black hided. There's no requirement for CAB to contain any Angus. The black hide is proof of Angus influence.

Tell some of these other breeds that their black hide is proof of Angus. :shock:

Don't think I put words in your mouth...I just quoted you!
 

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1848":gaz9n7ci said:
Good point "Guest". Glad to see they are up this year from 18%! :shock:

Actually, considering the other black breeds, I think we've done well to stay at 18%. And we know that calves sired by registered Angus bulls meet the CAB specs at a higher rate.

First of all, there are other certified branded beef programs out there.

That's true, and most of them use Angus cattle. Take a look at the USDA site showing the various branded beef lines.

http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/certprog/certbeef.htm

Hmmm? Try Hereford........ 65 to 75% and higher qualify for the CHB.

SELECT???. I’m surprised that 100% can’t meet that specification. Maybe it's a yield grade problem?
http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/certprog/beef/chb.htm


Granted, the specs are different for CAB, and given the same specs the Hereford would be right there with the Angus,

My BS meter is going off again. In another thread you claimed that most Angus are used in a terminal operation, but you can’t document that claim. Now you’re making another undocumented claim. Let’s see the data, #. Let’s see proof that “given the same specs the Hereford would be right there with Angus”. Talk’s cheap.

but "fortunately" the CHB recognizes additional value in the carcass measured at the Choice and select level, which in turn helps other breeds market their feeder cattle at a higher price.

People like to beat up Angus for having too much fat, but CHB allows a worse yield grade than CAB, 4.9 as opposed to 3.9. I pity those guys raising those 4.9 YG cattle that don’t get a premium! Heck, I doubt a CHB premium would offset that kind of YG. More of a CAB carcass is sold as branded beef than any other. You can buy CAB cold cuts and hot dogs around the country. I read recently there were over 40 items in the meat departments across the country with the word "Angus" in their name. Remarkable.

Moreover, many of the Hereford crosses (ie: the black baldie) is what is used to fill the CAB requirements, so in some since Angus rides the backs of Herefords (along with most other breeds which have incorporated black) to get their 20%! CHB has grown significantly in the last few years, last year gaining upwards of 30% in growth.

And CHB uses some of those Angus crosses to fill CHB requirements. But you probably don't have a problem with that. CHB is a growing enterprise, but 30% growth from 0 still isn't close to CAB sales. They became self-supporting much quicker than CAB. Of course, without CAB blazing the trail, CHB probably wouldn’t be in existence. Besides, if a Hereford breeder buys himself a good Angus bull, he can possibly sell either CAB or CHB. What a deal! Of course, if he uses that good Angus bull on good Angus cattle, he’s more likely to qualify for CAB.

And yes, Dodge city has a grading program (matching CAB) which limits CHB program cattle to "exclusively" choice product... :p

Strange, I don’t see a thing on the USDA link I posted above about another USDA approved Hereford program. In fact, I only saw one branded beef on that site containing the word “Hereford”. I do believe you’re talking through your hat again, #. So I now have another claim that you’ve made without any proof. We do still need the hot air you’re putting out, but it will be summer soon. I hope you can get yourself under control before then.

Secondly, It seems as though I remember you adimately trying to discredit other breeds that incorporated Angus under the "Red vs Black" post a couple of weeks ago, and that they did themselves a "diservice", yet you don't mind CAB using their carcass for there 51% black program!

Why should I mind? If other breeds want to give up some of what I consider the strong qualities of their breed to try to imitate Angus, that’s their business. I’d love to see CAB be an Angus-only program and I believe it will be one day. Today CAB Natural comes from AngusSource tagged cattle. But when CAB started there simply weren’t enough black cattle around to fill the demand. That’s certainly not true today. I am constantly impressed at the knowledge and planning of the American Angus Association, but I can’t believe even they ever thought so many breeds would incorporate Angus into their seedstock.

Tell some of these other breeds that their black hide is proof of Angus.
Don't think I put words in your mouth...I just quoted you!

So what? The black hide is proof of Angus for CAB purposes. That was the discussion. It’s still true. So what’s your point, other than bashing Angus. Does it make you feel good to bash another breed? Believe me, I can find plenty of online information discrediting Hereford cattle, but I won’t. I like Hereford cattle and am sorry they are discounted so heavily at my local sale barn. But your constant bashing of Angus won’t make that change. The Hereford breeders have to make the changes. Are they?
 

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Three T":15jio9c4 said:
That ranks as one of the top 5 dumbest post i've ever read ! (but it did get me to reg. instead of just reading) ;-)

Welcome to the board....
 

1848

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Frankie":15uv45ut said:
And we know that calves sired by registered Angus bulls meet the CAB specs at a higher rate.

Who's "we"? You have a mouse in your pocket? :eek:

Frankie":15uv45ut said:
That's true, and most of them use Angus cattle. Take a look at the USDA site showing the various branded beef lines.

You mean most of them use "black" which may not even account for 25% of the genetics of the animal. The % of Herefords making CHB "is" actually "much" higher, but the top end (the baldies who may be 50% of more hereford)) are taken and placed in the CAB program...that's a fact! It has to do with specs. not "just: the "so called" great quality of the Angus. Any breed can set those standards and probably maintain them! It is just a matter of a dominant color making the total volume for CAB higher which in turn "refects" back on Angus. Research and money that other breeds don't have is what helps make the carcass improvements, not "always" just the breed itself. Ultrasounding, genetics, and programs all help determine direction. If Angus has anything it is just a head start and a different flavor! ;-)

Frankie":15uv45ut said:
SELECT???. I’m surprised that 100% can’t meet that specification. Maybe it's a yield grade problem?

This time you did yell! :shock:

Angus people are "biased" about specs they put in place many years ago in order to corner a "market". To bad "some" of the Angus breeders failed to remain humble in the process. :roll:

Frankie":15uv45ut said:
My BS meter is going off again. In another thread you claimed that most Angus are used in a terminal operation, but you can’t document that claim. Now you’re making another undocumented claim. Let’s see the data, #. Let’s see proof that “given the same specs the Hereford would be right there with Angus”. Talk’s cheap.

It dosn't suprise me that you have a BS meter. It must be going off all the time! :lol:

I enjoy not giving you the satisfaction of proving that Angus are manily used as terminal sires in the commercial side. I would think that you being so "knowledgeable" about the Angus you could diprove this on your own...so do it! Talk is cheap, but words can be deadly, and you sure do a lot of talk about Angus...so be careful. :p

Frankie":15uv45ut said:
People like to beat up Angus for having too much fat, but CHB allows a worse yield grade than CAB, 4.9 as opposed to 3.9. I pity those guys raising those 4.9 YG cattle that don’t get a premium! Heck, I doubt a CHB premium would offset that kind of YG. More of a CAB carcass is sold as branded beef than any other. You can buy CAB cold cuts and hot dogs around the country. I read recently there were over 40 items in the meat departments across the country with the word "Angus" in their name. Remarkable.

You repeated yourself in your last sentence. You used that in another "thread"!....remarkable!

I am glad you show pity!

I like fatty Angus steaks! I like fatty Hereford steaks,..heck I even like fatty Holstein steaks! At least there are markets that will give them "guys" a little better premium w/o them having to succumb to those mighty Angus standards which were put in place for marketing reasons.
I can stop selling semen on a hot bull and cause the value of his offspring to sky rocket. It is easy to manipulate markets. CAB has done a good job of it.

Frankie":15uv45ut said:
And CHB uses some of those Angus crosses to fill CHB requirements. But you probably don't have a problem with that. CHB is a growing enterprise, but 30% growth from 0 still isn't close to CAB sales. They became self-supporting much quicker than CAB. Of course, without CAB blazing the trail, CHB probably wouldn’t be in existence. Besides, if a Hereford breeder buys himself a good Angus bull, he can possibly sell either CAB or CHB. What a deal! Of course, if he uses that good Angus bull on good Angus cattle, he’s more likely to qualify for CAB.

I would think your BS meter, horn, flag, or whatever, was going off on this one.

It's not from Zero, it's just last year alone.

You easily forget, Herefords...

(sorry folks but I must sound biased for a moment....I'm being sucked in!) :help:

....ruled the range long before Angus, and were then and "still are" considered America's beef breed.

A diffent taste and some good marketing went a long way for "black" They didn't get win the populartity contest over surviveability, fertility, and maternal traits It was mostly the "terminal" aspect of the black, polled gene. (here's a new mission for you!).

"One" requirement for CHB (Genotype) requires 50% Hereford or 100% british, and direct offspring of a hereford bull or cow. So many of the the ones going to CAB are at least 50% Hereford. :p

Frankie":15uv45ut said:
Strange, I don’t see a thing on the USDA link I posted above about another USDA approved Hereford program. In fact, I only saw one branded beef on that site containing the word “Hereford”. I do believe you’re talking through your hat again, #. So I now have another claim that you’ve made without any proof. We do still need the hot air you’re putting out, but it will be summer soon. I hope you can get yourself under control before then.

Maybe you should try looking at sites less biased towards the Angus.

The Certified Hereford Beef program began as a marketing initiative of the American Hereford Association in 1994. Based on the findings of over three years of Colorado State University research that proved the superior eating quality and consistency of Hereford. Try National Beef Packing Company, Dodge city, CHB LLC.

Frankie":15uv45ut said:
Why should I mind? If other breeds want to give up some of what I consider the strong qualities of their breed to try to imitate Angus, that’s their business. I’d love to see CAB be an Angus-only program and I believe it will be one day.

Good! Then you will have the little circle you want! :shock:

Frankie":15uv45ut said:
Today CAB Natural comes from AngusSource tagged cattle. But when CAB started there simply weren’t enough black cattle around to fill the demand. That’s certainly not true today. I am constantly impressed at the knowledge and planning of the American Angus Association, but I can’t believe even they ever thought so many breeds would incorporate Angus into their seedstock.

You know it's all about "marketing". Tell a person they will get more "money" if they make the hide black and watch the change happen.

Frankie":15uv45ut said:
So what? The black hide is proof of Angus for CAB purposes. That was the discussion. It’s still true. So what’s your point, other than bashing Angus.

I am not "bashing" Angus, although you seem to think I have made it my mission. I like to keep things in perspective for the sake of catttle raisers in general, not just Angus raisers or all the people who hang onto Angus' coat tails (you know, Brangus, Maines, limo's as you indicated).

Frankie":15uv45ut said:
Does it make you feel good to bash another breed? Believe me, I can find plenty of online information discrediting Hereford cattle, but I won’t. I like Hereford cattle and am sorry they are discounted so heavily at my local sale barn. But your constant bashing of Angus won’t make that change. The Hereford breeders have to make the changes. Are they?

I am not bashing your breed. Originally, I thought I was making some points about how marketing can change the affects of breeding mentalities.
You must really think I am out to be vindictive! I can probably hammer the Hereford breed more than you ever could, but they have withstood the test of time and environment none the less, and they still have their place. These so called discounts in the sale barn are probably the reason they are the most economicaly effeicient breed for cattle raisers to use in order to turn a dollar. (considering crossbreeding of course).

It does seem as though some of your post would be better served under the "advertisement for Angus" section, as they sometimes have a smothering affect. Don't get me wrong. I do appreciate your loyalty and commitment to your breed, as I too stand beside mine, but I think sometimes we should be more open minded to people on the boards, and not think our breeds have paved this great road for all others to follow.

Herefords make there own changes..breeders just manage them.
 

Frankie

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#wrote:
Who's "we"? You have a mouse in your pocket?

I’m a member of the American Angus Association. AAA pay attention to the CAB acceptance rates. Through source identified cattle, they’ve shown that cattle sired by Angus bulls meet the CAB specs at a higher rate than generic black cattle. No mouse, just us.

You mean most of them use "black" which may not even account for 25% of the genetics of the animal.

No. There you go again trying to put words into my mouth. I mean that many (perhaps most, I won’t bother to count) of the branded beef programs have the word “Angus” in their name. You say they may only have 25% Angus genetics. But, then, we know you're not much on real facts. The only branded beef that has Hereford in their name is the one owned by the Hereford Association. You may not like it, but it’s a fact. Getting upset and blowing more hot air won’t change that fact.

The % of Herefords making CHB "is" actually "much" higher, but the top end (the baldies who may be 50% of more hereford)) are taken and placed in the CAB program...that's a fact!

Oh, a fact! Wow! I don’t suppose you have any proof of that “fact.” Actually, I don’t know that if I were a Hereford breeder, I’d have put that information online.

It has to do with specs. not "just: the "so called" great quality of the Angus.

Manure. The Angus Association set those standards high because they knew consumers are more likely to be satisfied with higher quality beef. And they knew Angus and Angus influenced cattle can meet them.

Any breed can set those standards and probably maintain them!

More manure. If any other breed can meet those standards, why have they not started their own branded beef program based on the higher standards. Why did CHB set Select as the baseline for CHB?

It is just a matter of a dominant color making the total volume for CAB higher which in turn "refects" back on Angus. Research and money that other breeds don't have is what helps make the carcass improvements, not "always" just the breed itself. Ultrasounding, genetics, and programs all help determine direction. If Angus has anything it is just a head start and a different flavor!

Oh, I do believe you’re reaching here. “dominant color” What does that mean? Are you saying CAB sells more volume because the cattle are black? Let’s get real here. When CAB was created the Angus breed didn’t have a lot of money. More than once the Board of Directors considered stopped the program because it was costing so much. Thankfully, they stayed the course. Breeders pay for ultrasound, not the Association. Today, the Angus Association is doing very well financially, but don’t kid yourself that Angus are the top breed because they have money. They have money because they are the top breed. As for a “head start”, you say later in this post that Herefords were here and popular before Angus came along. So who had the “head start?” The fact that the Hereford Association(s) decided to fight with each other isn’t the Angus Association’s fault.


This time you did yell!

Yes, I did. Actually, it was more of an exclamation of shock. The fact that 25% or more of hand picked Hereford-influenced cattle can’t reach Select, YG 4.9 is, truthfully, not something I’d be bragging about if I were a Hereford breeder.

Angus people are "biased" about specs they put in place many years ago in order to corner a "market". To bad "some" of the Angus breeders failed to remain humble in the process.

“biased?” The specs have been changed over the years and probably will be again in the future. As for humble, I wasn’t going around bashing Herefords or CHB. But you just can’t seem to stop bashing Angus. Over the years on this board, I’ve found some people just can’t talk about their breed’s good points without bashing Angus. You seem to fall in that category.


It dosn't suprise me that you have a BS meter. It must be going off all the time!

It seems to be especially active when I see you’ve posted again. But insults aside, where’s the data showing “Hereford would be right there with Angus”. I say you’re full of manure (it's getting deep in here) and there’s no such data, but I'd be glad to consider any you could provide.

I enjoy not giving you the satisfaction of proving that Angus are manily used as terminal sires in the commercial side. I would think that you being so "knowledgeable" about the Angus you could diprove this on your own...so do it! Talk is cheap, but words can be deadly, and you sure do a lot of talk about Angus...so be careful.

Obviously you don’t have any proof. I have stated my information: that solid black cattle are the most popular for replacements at every cow sale I've been to for several years. Lots of people like the maternal traits of Angus. Today when I drive through OK and TX, a red cowherd is almost a novelty. Again, I’ll say you’re full of manure. Words can be deadly, if used wrong. You should be listening to your own advice. You’re the one who has made claims, then refused to back them up.

You repeated yourself in your last sentence. You used that in another "thread"!....remarkable!

Good news is good news. I’m glad to spread it around and around and around.

I am glad you show pity!

Well, not everyone has the benefit of the largest cattle database in the world. Management plays a big part in YGs.

I like fatty Angus steaks! I like fatty Hereford steaks,..heck I even like fatty Holstein steaks! At least there are markets that will give them "guys" a little better premium w/o them having to succumb to those mighty Angus standards which were put in place for marketing reasons.

I like marbled beef. I equate “fatty” to the rind that YG 4.9 cattle produce.

I can stop selling semen on a hot bull and cause the value of his offspring to sky rocket. It is easy to manipulate markets. CAB has done a good job of it.

Well, Hereford people shouldn’t be so quick to bid up cattle just because you’ve stopped selling your bull’s semen. And I don’t see a bit of connection between that and CAB. As far as I know, CAB was available all across the US yesterday, today and likely will be tomorrow.

I would think your BS meter, horn, flag, or whatever, was going off on this one.
It's not from Zero, it's just last year alone.

Why? Tell me how many pounds of CHB were sold last year and the year before. You claim Angus are riding on the back of Herefords to produce CAB, but totally ignored my comment that CHB probably uses Angus crosses to fill their requirements. So, I’ll ask again: if it’s wrong for Angus to use Herefords in CAB, is it wrong for CHB to use black baldies in their program?

You easily forget, Herefords...
(sorry folks but I must sound biased for a moment....I'm being sucked in!)
....ruled the range long before Angus, and were then and "still are" considered America's beef breed.

I haven't forgotten the history of Herefords. I especially liked their ad "When Beef Was King, so were Herefords." Don't know why they didn't use that more. You may still consider Herefords American’s beef breed, but when you look at the sale of bulls into commercial cow herds, you’ll be hard pressed to back it up. Of course, you don’t need any “facts”, just your opinion is all that’s important to you.

A diffent taste and some good marketing went a long way for "black" They didn't get win the populartity contest over surviveability, fertility, and maternal traits It was mostly the "terminal" aspect of the black, polled gene. (here's a new mission for you!).

It has been posted on this page (with references, something you lack) that taste studies show Angus beef tastes no different from any other beef of the same quality. I have no problem with that. No new mission for me. You’re making the claims and looking more and more foolish because you can’t back them up. I’m very comfortable with my position and the postion of the Angus breed in the beef industry.

"One" requirement for CHB (Genotype) requires 50% Hereford or 100% british, and direct offspring of a hereford bull or cow. So many of the the ones going to CAB are at least 50% Hereford.

Nope. You haven’t shown anywhere that CHB cattle are being sold as CAB.

Maybe you should try looking at sites less biased towards the Angus.

Good grief. Now it’s a conspiracy. The USDA is biased toward Angus!!

The Certified Hereford Beef program began as a marketing initiative of the American Hereford Association in 1994. Based on the findings of over three years of Colorado State University research that proved the superior eating quality and consistency of Hereford. Try National Beef Packing Company, Dodge city, CHB LLC.

Of course CHB was started as a marketing initiative for the Hereford Assn. Who else would do it? I talked to a big OK Hereford breeder a few years ago. He said he saw an ad in the Tulsa newspaper about 20 years ago. A new high class hotel was opening up, they had taken out a full page ad in the Tulsa paper announcing their opening. The ad also said they were selling only CAB in their restaurant. He took that ad to the Hereford Association Board of Directors and said we need to do something. Well, about 20 years later, they did. BTW, he’s now crossing some of his Herefords with Red Angus and producing some nice commercial red baldies. If I were to go back into the commercial cattle business, that might be where I’d go to get some “starter” heifers.

Good! Then you will have the little circle you want!

Is the elementary school you attended still open? I hope not because they certainly failed to teach you to read. I don't care if other breeds have turned their cattle black.

You know it's all about "marketing". Tell a person they will get more "money" if they make the hide black and watch the change happen.

That might work for a few years. But the Angus Association has been tracking the “Angus premium” in sale barns across the US for years. There is a real premium for Angus. BTW, they don’t collect the data themselves, they ask the sale barn people to do it for them. So you can’t claim bias on their part.



I am not "bashing" Angus, although you seem to think I have made it my mission. I like to keep things in perspective for the sake of catttle raisers in general, not just Angus raisers or all the people who hang onto Angus' coat tails (you know, Brangus, Maines, limo's as you indicated).

Of course you are bashing Angus. I’ll point out again that someone brought this very old post to the top of the board and you jumped onto CAB with both feet.

I am not bashing your breed. Originally, I thought I was making some points about how marketing can change the affects of breeding mentalities.
You must really think I am out to be vindictive! I can probably hammer the Hereford breed more than you ever could, but they have withstood the test of time and environment none the less, and they still have their place. These so called discounts in the sale barn are probably the reason they are the most economicaly effeicient breed for cattle raisers to use in order to turn a dollar. (considering crossbreeding of course).

Again, of course you’re bashing my breed. I guess I missed those good points about marketing. Are you vindictive? Probably not. I have my opinion about your mental state, but I won’t put it online. I don’t plan to “hammer” the Hereford breed. I like Herefords. They have some good points and I wish more Hereford breeders would ignore the showring and concentrate on performance. But that’s my opinion.

It does seem as though some of your post would be better served under the "advertisement for Angus" section, as they sometimes have a smothering affect. Don't get me wrong. I do appreciate your loyalty and commitment to your breed, as I too stand beside mine, but I think sometimes we should be more open minded to people on the boards, and not think our breeds have paved this great road for all others to follow.

You read my posts? What a surprise, considering how many of my points you ignore. I wouldn’t miss one of yours; it’s too much fun.

Herefords make there own changes..breeders just manage them.

If that’s the belief of the majority of Hereford breeders, the breed is in serious trouble.
 

1848

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dun":2lj3pto8 said:
As Macon would probably say ENOUGH

dun

You're right I was thinking the same thing. I hope Macon dosn't have too!
 

greenwillowherefords

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Frankie, there is a new division of CHB that is Choice and above only. I read it in the Hereford World. There is also Ridgefield Premium Hereford Beef out there. The 30% growth was not from 0 either. That was in one year.
 

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And we know that calves sired by registered Angus bulls meet the CAB specs at a higher rate. I'm calling BS.


Says, who? Given the fact that Angus is number one for registrations, and everybody else is a distant second, with Hereford, Red Angus, and Charolais in there too, plus the fact that Limousin and Gelbvieh still records around 45-50% red bulls, and Simmental is around 25% red bulls, I'd say that way over 60%, and probably over 70% of the cattle that get a "tryout" for CAB are already Angus sired.

I'll stick by my guns, the Y 4's are what kills the chances for CAB after meeting upper 2/3 choice. If you want more CAB, breed those black cows to a high marbling Continental, you can consistently beat 30% CAB, and possibly much better. I've known guys that make 60%, and this is on 300 or more head in a pen, not some set-up purebred deal where there are 15, and it's called 100% CAB, I'm talking 60% on 300 head, which is way better than any Straightbred Angus you'll hear about.

mtnman
 

Bez

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Dun do not bother to play sherrif!

I for one am quite enjoying it. And, I am learning lots.

Heck I raise horned herefords and cross almost exclusively to angus. I had never heard of cab up until about a year and a bit ago.

Far as I am concerned this is simply a learning experience.

Bez
 

1848

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Bez":39hkrcuj said:
Dun do not bother to play sherrif!

I for one am quite enjoying it. And, I am learning lots.

Heck I raise horned herefords and cross almost exclusively to angus. I had never heard of cab up until about a year and a bit ago.

Far as I am concerned this is simply a learning experience.

Bez

Thankyou Bez,

I for one am glad you are learning as it was my intent to just bring up a different perspective. Glad to see you mixing it up!.. :lol:

However, I think dun is right (sorta.. :D ), and for the sake of keeping the boards from getting ugly I must refrain.....some... ;-)
 

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You know, everytime (no, not every time - but lots of times) something gets going there is someone who jumps in and puts the "Macon won't like it" spin on things. Right after that there will be a couple of chirpers adding "Yeah, right on, Macon won't like it".

I figure thats crapola - he is an adult and does not need words put in his mouth. Nothing was out of line and I figure if there is a problem he will speak up - otherwise it is fair game on the boards. I couldn't give two hoots if a couple of guys want to have a strongly worded debate - in fact I encourage it - more for me to learn.

I admit cab is completely foreign to me - it's sort of tried up here - but very little is known. And the consumer has no idea half the time what they are buying - other than the specialty stores.

I use blacks on my reds because it works - never got a premium for it in my life. I figure cab works in the U.S. of A. then fine. Do what you gotta' do to make a buck. If it isn't tan in this area you are discounted - go figure.

So have at boys - I'll read the posts and make up MY OWN mind.

Bez
 

1848

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Bez":3cuhj5em said:
otherwise it is fair game on the boards. I couldn't give two hoots if a couple of guys want to have a strongly worded debate - in fact I encourage it - more for me to learn.

So have at boys - I'll read the posts and make up MY OWN mind.

Bez

:cboy: Yeeeeeee haawwwww! Chaaaarrge! Remember the Alamo!

Just kidding... :lol: :lol:

I'm with ya on the "do what you gotta do" though.. ;-)
 
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