Bull losing condition

[greggy]

I am a newby

He!! Greggy...I would never have guessed that :banana:

Well...I am.

But this is just unhelpful, to me and OP. IMO.

You have not asked or been told quantities...or mix ratios. So I am not sure why your adamant that I am ignoring rumination and causing acidosis.

Seeing this is not anything to do with OP or his issue, nor is it reasonable and serious discussion, I will bow out

 

[alisonb]

You have not asked or been told quantities...or mix ratios. So I am not sure why your adamant that I am ignoring rumination and causing acidosis.

I have never said that your are ignoring rumination. I did post a couple of links to articles on Acidosis for your perusal as you have mentioned that you are feeding fruit, vegetables and bread at times, as well as one on Rumen development of calves...this was intended to assist you, not criticize your methods. Here are some of your posts...there seems to be a common denominator in them ;-). I'll say it again, it is advice not necessarily pointed at you... if cattle ingest excessive, inconsistent amounts of unaccustomed feeds rich in rapid fermentable carbohydrates such as grain, bread, bakery waste, potatoes, and sugar it will affect the rumen pH.































Animals with a lowered rumen pH tend to do this -

Seeing this is not anything to do with OP or his issue, nor is it reasonable and serious discussion, I will bow out

What makes you sure that ValleyView's bull does not have sub clinical acidosis?

Here is something else you may find of interest Greggy -

http://extension.msstate.edu/publications/publications/feedstuffs-for-beef-cattle

I will now bow out .ValleyView, all the best with your bull. You seem like a very decent gentleman.

 

[ValleyView]

You have not asked or been told quantities...or mix ratios. So I am not sure why your adamant that I am ignoring rumination and causing acidosis.

I have never said that your are ignoring rumination. I did post a couple of links to articles on Acidosis for your perusal as you have mentioned that you are feeding fruit, vegetables and bread at times, as well as one on Rumen development of calves...this was intended to assist you, not criticize your methods. Here are some of your posts...there seems to be a common denominator in them ;-). I'll say it again, it is advice not necessarily pointed at you... if cattle ingest excessive, inconsistent amounts of unaccustomed feeds rich in rapid fermentable carbohydrates such as grain, bread, bakery waste, potatoes, and sugar it will affect the rumen pH.































Animals with a lowered rumen pH tend to do this -

Seeing this is not anything to do with OP or his issue, nor is it reasonable and serious discussion, I will bow out

What makes you sure that ValleyView's bull does not have sub clinical acidosis?

Here is something else you may find of interest Greggy -

http://extension.msstate.edu/publications/publications/feedstuffs-for-beef-cattle

I will now bow out .ValleyView, all the best with your bull. You seem like a very decent gentleman.

Appreciate you taking the time to comment and bring to light another possible item of concern being acidosis. Hadn't considered that and I am also unabashedly a newby as well. The finer points of nutrition is not exactly a strong suit of mine as of yet.

I can also assure you I have been called far worse than a decent gentleman, but try to learn from my mistakes!

Cheers and many thanks!

 

[wbvs58]

I think it is time to throw a bucket of water over a couple of posters here.

Valleyview, he doesn't look too flash does he? Colour is very wishy washy, could copper deficiency be a problem?

Ken

 

[Redgully]

I have seen many times bulls go down hill when they have a change of property. Seems to me the bacteria they were supplied with as a calf that suited their birth conditions don't agree with their new conditions. Now before i get shot down this is a personal theory on my personal observations.....

 

[ValleyView]

I think it is time to throw a bucket of water over a couple of posters here.

Valleyview, he doesn't look too flash does he? Colour is very wishy washy, could copper deficiency be a problem?

Ken

I guess flash isn't a term I'm familiar with, can you elaborate? He has always been more of a blonde/sandy looking Hereford which is one of the reasons he caught my eye. He has never been a deep red color typically associated with Hereford breed. Wouldn't the Brangus cows being showing similar signs of a copper deficiency?

 

[wbvs58]

I think the hereford colour shows the fading more than other breeds. Yeh the term flash refers to not too good, doesn't look too good.

Ken

 

[elkwc]

I think it is time to throw a bucket of water over a couple of posters here.

Valleyview, he doesn't look too flash does he? Colour is very wishy washy, could copper deficiency be a problem?

Ken

I've been around and raised Herefords for years. I see nothing wrong with his color. I've had many with that color and they were very healthy.

 

[greggy]

Maybe get some darker red hair dye and make him "flash" again

Hair color makes no diff, but a winter coat can make some look a bit scruffy....his condition score is more important than good looks .

Will injecting or increasing copper give him a flash deep red ? :hide: op:

 

[Brute 23]

I guess it is a waste of time pointing out lupin is mainly protein, not starch.....it compliments apple, which is low in protein...

It can cause acidosis .... that is true

In regard to op, if there is some assistance making limited feed more easily available by cutting etc, then would that not be a resonable action if it is a teething prob ?

Greggy - appreciate your insight. The bull and cows are all on a commodity ration with a fair dose of DDG's, rolled corn (I think) and 1/4 pellets among other feedstuffs. He held condition quite well on 20% range cubes so if it is his teeth I'd say I'm ahead of the curve, I hope...

He spent his first 16 months in an operation that is much different than mine and the wet winter and adjustment to my supplemental feeding program potentially compounded by new teeth may have created a perfect storm.

I also possibly blew it out of proportion as I am a worry wort, but have included pics from turnout on 6/16/19 and 2/4/2020. It was the fact my cows have bulked up nicely ahead of their late March calving date while he has lagged behind that made me worry and start the thread.

Thanks to all who commented, I will keep you posted.

I'm surprised the seller where you bought the bull did not tell you to keep an eye on him as he reaches that age. That's pretty standard for a bull seller.

 

[ValleyView]

I guess it is a waste of time pointing out lupin is mainly protein, not starch.....it compliments apple, which is low in protein...

It can cause acidosis .... that is true

In regard to op, if there is some assistance making limited feed more easily available by cutting etc, then would that not be a resonable action if it is a teething prob ?

Greggy - appreciate your insight. The bull and cows are all on a commodity ration with a fair dose of DDG's, rolled corn (I think) and 1/4 pellets among other feedstuffs. He held condition quite well on 20% range cubes so if it is his teeth I'd say I'm ahead of the curve, I hope...

He spent his first 16 months in an operation that is much different than mine and the wet winter and adjustment to my supplemental feeding program potentially compounded by new teeth may have created a perfect storm.

I also possibly blew it out of proportion as I am a worry wort, but have included pics from turnout on 6/16/19 and 2/4/2020. It was the fact my cows have bulked up nicely ahead of their late March calving date while he has lagged behind that made me worry and start the thread.

Thanks to all who commented, I will keep you posted.

I'm surprised the seller where you bought the bull did not tell you to keep an eye on him as he reaches that age. That's pretty standard for a bull seller.

I've purchased two young bulls thus far from different operations that know a ton more than me and neither one of them mentioned it. Last years bull I ditched for calf marketability bc not many like straight Brangus as much as I do as well as some flashes of temperament that concerned me.

If this Hereford (Robert Earl) can get right (which I think he will) I don't plan on getting rid of him anytime soon. A heads up would've been nice, but I guess at the end of the day the onus is on me for needing to know this was a possibility. That said, I'm grateful for the folks on the page and their help because I'm humbled on a regular basis!

 

[kenny thomas]

You have wormed him and are feeding him so other than separating him and feeding him more you can just quit worrying. About August compare the pictures again.
If he had been fed a lot and not working when you purchased him they usually will go down.

 

[elkwc]

I guess it is a waste of time pointing out lupin is mainly protein, not starch.....it compliments apple, which is low in protein...

It can cause acidosis .... that is true

In regard to op, if there is some assistance making limited feed more easily available by cutting etc, then would that not be a resonable action if it is a teething prob ?

Greggy - appreciate your insight. The bull and cows are all on a commodity ration with a fair dose of DDG's, rolled corn (I think) and 1/4 pellets among other feedstuffs. He held condition quite well on 20% range cubes so if it is his teeth I'd say I'm ahead of the curve, I hope...

He spent his first 16 months in an operation that is much different than mine and the wet winter and adjustment to my supplemental feeding program potentially compounded by new teeth may have created a perfect storm.

I also possibly blew it out of proportion as I am a worry wort, but have included pics from turnout on 6/16/19 and 2/4/2020. It was the fact my cows have bulked up nicely ahead of their late March calving date while he has lagged behind that made me worry and start the thread.

Thanks to all who commented, I will keep you posted.

I'm surprised the seller where you bought the bull did not tell you to keep an eye on him as he reaches that age. That's pretty standard for a bull seller.

We usually purchase at least one bull a year from reputable breeders and have never been told that. I have been told to not overwork a yearling bull but nothing about their teeth, ect. The only bulls we have had few if any issues with losing condition are those we develop our selves.

 

[Brute 23]

I get told on every one I buy. They always say just to keep an eye on them. If you get the right scenario where they have been worked and you hit winter right as they turn 2 they can use a little help some times. Very few have I actually had an issue with but I have seen it if all the stars line up. I don't have a problem buying a 14-16mo old bull.

I have not been sinced up and pulling bulls for that long, probably a little over 5 years, but I actually have to watch because some of them get too big for my liking when they are just on pasture away from the cows. I hate to see bulls carrying that much weight in the pasture.

 

[polledbull]

check your feed ration , some feed aint much of a ration, make sure he is getting enough protien and some cracked corn , drench worm him with safeguard, pour on dont do much for worms