cattle body structure/condition

[chaded]

You have 2-3 cows in 'questionable' condition out of 60 and now we should worm the entire herd or worm them now twice a year? If the problem truly is they need wormed then what you just found out is that almost all of you herd can handle their worms on their own and 2 can't. Ship the couple that can't….Sounds like a better solution to me.

I tend to agree with Murray and think that maybe that's the way she is built but I really don't know. Also, I don't know anything about feeding cubes but one bale a day for 60 cows with calves seems on the low side of things in my opinion. But I guess if most are doing well I don't know…..I'd be curious to see breed back percentage though.

 

[farmerjan]

I would also look at her manure and question the possibility of Johne's....it often will "rear it's ugly head" after some sort of "major event" ... like calving... in an older animal...

We could not get by with only 1 roll of hay per 60 head per day. That seems like a very small amount of hay for lactating cows. A 5x6 roll of hay here, would weigh in the 1200 lb range... with no other pasture, we figure a minimum of 30-40 lbs hay per head per day....for DRY cows..... so at 30 lbs that is enough hay for 40 head at best. Not enough for lactating cows. These few cows may be milking hard and are not getting enough to keep their body weight and make milk for the calves, regardless of the hay being rolled out for no competition.

Getting some fecal samples on the cows looking poor would be the best way to tell if they were actually wormy.
Barring fecal samples, to be sure, I probably would worm the 2-3 in question and then move the whole group 3 days later to a different pasture so the worms, if they have them, drop out into the pasture where they were, and they cannot get reinfected by grazing any short grass for at least 30-60 days...
We do not routinely worm adult cattle. If they are poor "doers" they get a worming and if the problems persist, they get sold. Since we do buy and sell some feeders, we do worm anything that comes on the place, and then go from there.

 

[Butterbean_Farms]

In my opinion she is just hungry. Assuming that hay bale weighs 1200lbs, in a perfect world she is only getting 20lbs of hay and .8lbs of cubes per day.

Figure in some cows being more aggressive and others more timid, I would expect the aggressive cattle to maintain and the timid to loose body condition.

My rule of thumb is to feed one 5x5.5 bale per 30 head per day

 

[ClinchValley86]

A good half of mine started looking poor halfway thru December on stockpile. It just wasn't meeting their needs. I ended up giving them some protein and unrolling a bale of hay a day. Seems to have straightened them out pretty good. They're all nursing 3 to 5 month old calves. Just wasn't a good forage year here.

The animal you pictured has a nice hair coat and looks plenty healthy to my untrained eye. I suspect they're just not getting the nutrition they need if they are indeed not in need of being wormed.

The calves of the poorer looking cows seems to be doing just fine?

 

[farmerjan]

We figure 20-25 head cattle per roll per day... rolls are 5x5 mostly, 1000 lbs an average guess.... I know hay is costly, but I do not want an animal to be hungry in our cold and wet nasty weather here.

 

[farmerjan]

We normally put out at least 2 rolls per place, depending on the weather, we sometimes roll out one for them to get to eat right there with no competition.... but if it is going to be wet and rainy like, lately, we do not roll them out, or more of it gets tromped on and laid on and wasted. There are 2 places where there are 30-40 head of cows with fall calves, and son puts out 4 rolls at a time, so everyone has a fair chance to get to some hay with out too much pushing and shoving. There is some waste.... the cows are full and content and will be laying around after eating, chewing their cud. The "waste" goes back into the soil and where there were rolls/piles, he will load and spread in the spring back on other parts of the pastures.

 

[Ebenezer]

You have 2-3 cows in 'questionable' condition out of 60 and now we should worm the entire herd or worm them now twice a year? If the problem truly is they need wormed then what you just found out is that almost all of you herd can handle their worms on their own and 2 can't. Ship the couple that can't….Sounds like a better solution to me.

I tend to agree with Murray and think that maybe that's the way she is built but I really don't know. Also, I don't know anything about feeding cubes but one bale a day for 60 cows with calves seems on the low side of things in my opinion. But I guess if most are doing well I don't know…..I'd be curious to see breed back percentage though.

We don't worm anything over 3 YO and usually just work first half heifers if they are thinner than the rest. Over time, the weaned calves usually have a FEC to indicate that no worming is needed. Worming all animals on a schedule is a sure way to increase resistance to wormers in the parasite populations. The exception to less worming is liver flukes.

Are these thin cows the same breed composition as the rest?

 

[Travlr]

!!!

 

[chaded]

LOL... this thread is a 2019 model, so five years old? And deerefan replies when it was reawakened as though he was still having the problem in late 2023 and the cow was still in his pasture???

I've been HAD!!!

Says it was started on Sunday? Unless I am missing something here..

 

[Travlr]

Says it was started on Sunday? Unless I am missing something here..

Aw crap!!! I was looking at his date of joining the forum. Brain fade...

 

[Lucky_P]

You can't deworm your way out of a nutritional deficiency.

Here we have a cow in the peak stage of lactation losing weight... and you don't have any idea about nutritional quality or digestibility of the hay you're feeding... it may not come anywhere close to providing those lactating cows with the amount of energy or protein that they need.

Adult cows over the age of 3 rarely have enough worms to have any significant impact on health. Liver flukes... that's a whole different issue. Unless you know the cows are wormy - have you had any fecal samples analysed? - you could be wasting hundreds of $$ pumping 'wormers' into cows that don't need deworming. Money that would have been better spent buying some feed...

 

[Chuckie]

Junk hay with no protein and not enough feed. You may be shy a sack or two or three of range cubes daily. Seeing how low your pasture is, down to dirt, these cattle are hungry. When the cold weather hits, she is going to be in a world of hurt.

 

[Chuckie]

Just saw where someone wrote you have 60 cows. It takes money to feed 60 cows. That pasture is not maintaining them. Look how low it is and they started the winter off like that. You cannot start the winter off with malnourished cows. The man down the road does the same thing. He cuts everyone's junk hay. Looks like there are mares tails and broom sage rolled up with sticks that would poke their eyes out. Then when a cold snap hits he will pull a cow or two to the gate where it has died. Then the cows start living off their organ fat or inner fat. It is just a slow starvation from fall to spring, and some don't make it.

 

[ClinchValley86]

We normally put out at least 2 rolls per place, depending on the weather, we sometimes roll out one for them to get to eat right there with no competition.... but if it is going to be wet and rainy like, lately, we do not roll them out, or more of it gets tromped on and laid on and wasted. There are 2 places where there are 30-40 head of cows with fall calves, and son puts out 4 rolls at a time, so everyone has a fair chance to get to some hay with out too much pushing and shoving. There is some waste.... the cows are full and content and will be laying around after eating, chewing their cud. The "waste" goes back into the soil and where there were rolls/piles, he will load and spread in the spring back on other parts of the pastures.

It's so mudder here that I busted out a hay ring. Unrolled half a bale and put 1.5 in a ring. I sure hope it'll freeze here soon.

 

[blackladies]

Probably doesn't make to much of a difference with one more chiming in but agreed with those who said not enough hay or cubes for that many animals if they don't have good pasture to graze. If it is some other health condition or just build of the cow could always bring her to the vet to find out.

 

[SDgrampa]

You can't starve a dollar out of a cow

 

[Allenw]

Look at her front shoulders and behind them, she has no fat cover, she is past questionable shape.

Cow Body Condition Scoring

 

[Chuckie]

Allenw, bingo!

 

[deerefan]

Thank you all for your help. Just to be clear, I am definitely not trying to starve these cattle to save a dollar. Most of the time, majority of the cattle look very good. Every time the vet has come out, he always comments on how good my cattle look. Even now, with no pasture for the past 6 weeks, most look very good with some being fat. There are only a handful that look poor. This is why I have not been feeding them more, I try and follow what the majority look like.
Going forwards, could you please give me some credible guidelines on how much hay you recommend feeding dry and lactating cows? Also, your recommendations on the amount of protein cubes to be supplemented. I plan on doing some hay analysis asap, hopefully this will add some useful information but I only bale fertilized coastal.
Also, I am confused. Is the general recommendation not to worm after 3 years of age? I have worked with local ranchers before and they would worm every cow once a year.
Thank you all again.

 

[Little Joe]

Thank you all for your help. Just to be clear, I am definitely not trying to starve these cattle to save a dollar. Most of the time, majority of the cattle look very good. Every time the vet has come out, he always comments on how good my cattle look. Even now, with no pasture for the past 6 weeks, most look very good with some being fat. There are only a handful that look poor. This is why I have not been feeding them more, I try and follow what the majority look like.
Going forwards, could you please give me some credible guidelines on how much hay you recommend feeding dry and lactating cows? Also, your recommendations on the amount of protein cubes to be supplemented. I plan on doing some hay analysis asap, hopefully this will add some useful information but I only bale fertilized coastal.
Also, I am confused. Is the general recommendation not to worm after 3 years of age? I have worked with local ranchers before and they would worm every cow once a year.
Thank you all again.

I'm no expert but I figure 1-1.5 round bale, 800-1000lb bales, per dry cow per month depending on weather. As far as worming, if you worm just to be worming you are helping build a resistance to the wormer kinda like giving antibiotics just for the sake of prevention.