Bull losing condition

[ValleyView]

Gents,
I have a coming 3yr old Hereford bull that I have owned since June 2019 that is not wintering well. He covered all cows and has been on easy street with plenty of June cut Bluestem (untested) hay and 3lbs daily of 16% commodity feed. He doesn't act sick but the bred cows he's being fed with are packing on condition and he looks to possibly be going backwards or just not gaining. Been going on 30 days and I've upped feed and hay, but little to no improvement. Last wormed 11/15/19 with Dectomax. Any thoughts or things to looks for? Going to worm him again next weekend but has anyone else dealt with this sort of thing?

Appreciate any input.

 

[Nesikep]

I don't have much of an idea.. bad tooth? Poop is normal?

 

[ValleyView]

I don't have much of an idea.. bad tooth? Poop is normal?

To be honest, I haven't specifically seen his. He does NOT appear to have scours though. I'm going to be "that guy" and give the vet a shout this morning.

 

[TCRanch]

Any other symptoms? Drooling? Have you seen him eat? Hardware and anaplasmosis will make them lose condition. A pic might help.

 

[ValleyView]

Any other symptoms? Drooling? Have you seen him eat? Hardware and anaplasmosis will make them lose condition. A pic might help.

No other symptoms that I have noticed. He is at the trough every time I feed and keeps his head in the hay ring along with the cows. He doesn't act sick but just looks rough. It's my first winter to have him and possible he just may not winter well.

Anaplas this time of year? Hadn't considered that.

He only had 8 cows to cover at turnout at 16 months so he hasn't been pushed. I am unable to dry lot him so he has spent the winter with my covered cows.

Unfortunately, I don't have an updated pic. It all seemed to start when I switched from 20% cubes but it has been an extremely wet winter in NE OK since that time too.

 

[TCRanch]

Any other symptoms? Drooling? Have you seen him eat? Hardware and anaplasmosis will make them lose condition. A pic might help.

No other symptoms that I have noticed. He is at the trough every time I feed and keeps his head in the hay ring along with the cows. He doesn't act sick but just looks rough. It's my first winter to have him and possible he just may not winter well.

Anaplas this time of year? Hadn't considered that.

He only had 8 cows to cover at turnout at 16 months so he hasn't been pushed. I am unable to dry lot him so he has spent the winter with my covered cows.

Unfortunately, I don't have an updated pic. It all seemed to start when I switched from 20% cubes but it has been an extremely wet winter in NE OK since that time too.

Pulled a tick off one of the cats yesterday. It's possible to test positive without an active infection; it generally takes a while for symptoms to show. Had 2 this year: one is doing great because I caught it early, the other had an active infection and she's been treated twice, doing much better, gaining weight. And I only mentioned it in the first place because we're in relatively close proximity, just something to consider.

 

[ValleyView]

Any other symptoms? Drooling? Have you seen him eat? Hardware and anaplasmosis will make them lose condition. A pic might help.

No other symptoms that I have noticed. He is at the trough every time I feed and keeps his head in the hay ring along with the cows. He doesn't act sick but just looks rough. It's my first winter to have him and possible he just may not winter well.

Anaplas this time of year? Hadn't considered that.

He only had 8 cows to cover at turnout at 16 months so he hasn't been pushed. I am unable to dry lot him so he has spent the winter with my covered cows.

Unfortunately, I don't have an updated pic. It all seemed to start when I switched from 20% cubes but it has been an extremely wet winter in NE OK since that time too.

Pulled a tick off one of the cats yesterday. It's possible to test positive without an active infection; it generally takes a while for symptoms to show. Had 2 this year: one is doing great because I caught it early, the other had an active infection and she's been treated twice, doing much better, gaining weight. And I only mentioned it in the first place because we're in relatively close proximity, just something to consider.

Dang, I bet it's been even colder up where you are too! Will definitely ask the vet what he thinks about that and appreciate you mentioning it.

 

[ValleyView]

Vet said to pen him up and pour on worm him bc parasites are very bad in our part of the state due to moist conditions for an extended period of time. He asked if he had been scoured looking which I was able to say he wasn't. He also recommended upping his ration to 5lbs per day.

Also mentioned that younger bulls sometime lose condition when they transition from baby teeth to permanent teeth and will sometimes not gain as well/fast. That never crossed my mind but will keep you all posted.

 

[5S Cattle]

Of he's closer to 2 then 3, it could be his baby teeth.

 

[ValleyView]

Of he's closer to 2 then 3, it could be his baby teeth.

Haha, he turns two on 2/5/2020 so that puts him pretty dad gum close!

 

[TCRanch]

Thanks for the update and please keep us posted. Penning him away from the cows is a good idea if he just need more groceries, worming and possibly losing baby teeth. If he's younger than the cows he's with, I don't care if he's a bull, they'll pull rank bump him from the feed. You do NOT get between a bred cow & her food!

 

[elkwc]

I have found it normal on the young bulls around here regardless of breed. I have one now I'm trying to put weight back on. I have decided there are many factors including teeth and they are still growing and maturing. I try to pull our young bulls early and start supplementing them a little extra while leaving the mature bulls with the cows until around now. I brought the one in for a month and then put him with 5 fall calvers and he dropped condition while the heifers maintained condition. I just worm them regularly and keep them on a good mineral program.

 

[5S Cattle]

Of he's closer to 2 then 3, it could be his baby teeth.

Haha, he turns two on 2/5/2020 so that puts him pretty dad gum close!

That's what it is then. Bump his feed up if you want to keep him in condition but he'll come back out of it on his own

 

[kenny thomas]

Of he's closer to 2 then 3, it could be his baby teeth.

Exactly, bulls that age will look the worse ever in their life. They don't have good teeth and they are still growing plus trying to breed.
Some old timers would chop up ear corn thinking they were helping. The heifers and young bulls couldn't really get the hang of it so not much help to them.

 

[ValleyView]

Can't thank y'all enough for your input! I never in my wildest dreams would've imagined the loss of baby teeth for a sexually mature animal would be the likely culprit.

Here's to hoping some TLC, wormer and bigger chicklets will get this rascal back to fat(ish) and happy sooner rather than later.

Just proof that it sometimes takes a village to help an idiot!

 

[greggy]

I have a steer like this, seems to eat like a vacuum, but is behind the heifers he is with.

Have you considered finely chopping some feed, or feeding something in with other feed that is powdered...or ground sand like size...

It would be good to know if it is just that, I would prob do something like this when in a pen and see what a month of finer feed in similar quantity does....not walking around will help....so may worming if he has a load, but he should really be past that i would have thought ?

 

[alisonb]

TCRanch are you a 'gents'

Have you considered finely chopping some feed, or feeding something in with other feed that is powdered...or ground sand like size...

It would be good to know if it is just that, I would prob do something like this when in a pen and see what a month of finer feed in similar quantity does....not walking around will help....so may worming if he has a load, but he should really be past that i would have thought ?

Greggy - have seen you mentioning feeding fine/powdered feed a couple of times. Cattle as you know are ruminants, a healthy efficient rumen is the ultimate. ;-)

http://extension.msstate.edu/publications/publications/understanding-the-ruminant-animal-digestive-system

 

[greggy]

Yes, but they can have ground feed too, that is what pellets are and mixers, hammer mills etc..

Some things must be ground, sure you know all that anyways.....

If he has a tooth issue, that must mean not getting the most from the feed/s ?

If yes, then why not help him a little and see if that is what it is for sure, not suggesting to remove roughage or chop that all for him too

 

[alisonb]

Yes Greggy, nothing wrong with what you suggested...was referring to some of your other posts. It shouldn't concern me but it would make me happy if you read that link and applied it to your cattle ;-)

Apologies for the hijack ValleyView

 

[ValleyView]

TCRanch are you a 'gents'

Have you considered finely chopping some feed, or feeding something in with other feed that is powdered...or ground sand like size...

It would be good to know if it is just that, I would prob do something like this when in a pen and see what a month of finer feed in similar quantity does....not walking around will help....so may worming if he has a load, but he should really be past that i would have thought ?

Greggy - have seen you mentioning feeding fine/powdered feed a couple of times. Cattle as you know are ruminants, a healthy efficient rumen is the ultimate. ;-)

http://extension.msstate.edu/publications/publications/understanding-the-ruminant-animal-digestive-system

You know what, I sincerely appreciate you bringing that to my attention and I'm embarrassed. That was ignorant and it won't happen again.