Black Hereford question

[shortybreeder]

Ok I got a question about black Herefords? Everyone knows you got black baldies out of red herf and black angus matings, but why we are not seeing more white faced calves in the matings of black herf and black angus? I have always thought that white face gene is dominant?

Think of a punnett square, W=white face, dominant w=no white face, recessive
Dam(black baldy):> W w
Sire (black angus):v w Ww ww
w Ww ww

The point: There is a 50% chance that your calf will have a dominant gene for a white face, and a 50% chance that there will be no dominant gene for a white face a.k.a. no white face. This assumes that the cow is an F1 from a 100% black sire (anything homozygous black, holstein, angus, simmental, maine, etc.) and a 100% red hereford and that the bull is a 100% black bull (again, anything homozygous black). Just like if you took a black baldy cow and bred her to a red angus bull, technically there is a chance that you could get a calf that looks exactly like a hereford. Could also happen if you bred a black angus bull to a black baldy cow if the bull is a Red carrier and the baldy cow still has her red gene. I have two holstein x hereford black baldy cows that were both bred to the same angus bull, one had a solid black calf (white spot on udder and white switch) and the other had a black baldy.
Hope this helps clear it up.

 

[Beef Man]

At one time I thought that the only pure breeds whould be,perhaps, herefords and holsteins but was wrong again. I was given to understand by noted breeders of the gelbvie's and simmentals several years ago when I foolishly comented that their black's could'nt be registered rather they were composite's, that I was wrong and that there was only enough angus in them to change their color. Which was a puzzle to me, as I grew up to long ago when if a animal had even the slightest drop of some other blood it was not pure. A puzzle to me is , sitting in the sale ring and a bunch of black hided steers come in and they are called salers, gelbvie, simmental, or some other breed and then the few reds that follow them in are sort outs, when all the purebreds[registered] that came here a few years ago were all red's or red and whites.Guess we can just change everything or anything to fit whatever we want.It is like saying that our president is Afro--American, when in my mind he is indeed only1/4 and 1/2 white and 1/4 muslim. Which by definition makes him caucasian whether anybody likes it or not.

So what's your point?

This situation is mass confuseing to me! The very idea to color everything black and call them something else or pretend they are something else is almost a joke. Like the so called black hereford when how many people knew them as black-- baldies. Like when quarter horse's became popular and someone dreamed up the Model Quarter Assc. Helluva money maker for someone but did'nt ever make those good old saddle horses any better except there was a paper involved.

 

[cow pollinater]

So what's your point?

This situation is mass confuseing to me! The very idea to color everything black and call them something else or pretend they are something else is almost a joke. Like the so called black hereford when how many people knew them as black-- baldies. Like when quarter horse's became popular and someone dreamed up the Model Quarter Assc. Helluva money maker for someone but did'nt ever make those good old saddle horses any better except there was a paper involved.[/quote]

And the joke is on them. The big selling point(at least here where I'm at) of hereford these days is heterosis on black cows. Polled herefords already show somewhat less heterosis than horned bulls do, so what is adding Angus blood going to do? Even if you get a premium for all of them being black it's a wash once you factor in the loss of heterosis as the calves won't grow as well.

 

[greybeard]

You're missing the point.
They're black. (mostly)
That, is the point.
Black.

 

[B&M Farms]

Every breed started out a cross breed and probably with the same reception.

 

[Rafter S]

If someone has a goal to selling the black baldy calves for the sale barn, he/she is better off using red herfs than black herfs? Is that correct?

In my experience, yes. I've used a red Hereford bull on Brangus cows for years, and while I occasionally get a red calf, I've never had one that didn't have a white face (or mottle-faced, or blaze-faced). The heifers I mentioned in my first post in this discussion is my only experience with black Herefords, but if you want white faced calves from black cows I would definitely recommend a traditional red Hereford bull.

 

[OakCreekRanch]

If someone has a goal to selling the black baldy calves for the sale barn, he/she is better off using red herfs than black herfs? Is that correct?

In my experience, yes. I've used a red Hereford bull on Brangus cows for years, and while I occasionally get a red calf, I've never had one that didn't have a white face (or mottle-faced, or blaze-faced). The heifers I mentioned in my first post in this discussion is my only experience with black Herefords, but if you want white faced calves from black cows I would definitely recommend a traditional red Hereford bull.

Ok thank you Rafter! I'll tell the couple the bad news. The couple wanted an uniformed crop of black baldy calves, that's their goal. Not sure what is their next move as all of their cows are already bred by same SimAngus bull and should be calving in early March.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Actually they don't exist as they are not recognized by the AHA.
This is P.T. Barnum salesmanship always someone will by a ticket.

 

[OakCreekRanch]

So which best terminal bull that works on black Hereford cows if their only goal would be an uniformed group instead of splitting up the whole into small groups? Would a white faced black Simmental bull works on them?

 

[Alan]

Actually they don't exist as they are not recognized by the AHA.
This is P.T. Barnum salesmanship always someone will by a ticket.

X2 :nod: :nod: :nod: some of you guys are missing the point. I may develope a white faced black and red angus. According to AHA, THEY DO NOT EXIST! It's nothing more than a sales job, unlike these other "black additives' some other breeds have allowed.