black baldy heifers

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Here's an ugly uddered 5 yr old BWF, day after calving this year.


LOL that's being petty - but I had to come back with something. This is a normal udder in my herd. I looked for "herd" pictures, but pretty much ALL of them the cows are looking at me, so you cannot see very many udders.
Here's a picture of part of the herd from last fall:

People like to get their digs in about "show cattle" - but not all farms that show are alike.

 

[True Grit Farms]

JWB - I was and never have said Simmental was THE breed. Just pointing out that there are options out there other than Angus as THE breed for CE. And you need to visit a PB Simmental farm and observe the udders. We used to have too much milk, but never been a breed that had poor udders.
Grit - that was probably a good observation. More Simmental breeders in NY - hmmm - I must be doing a good job for the NY Simmental Assn, Secretary for 20+ years. Thank you! I take that as a compliment.

Your welcome and deservedly so Jeanne. Simmental are good cattle but tend to milk heavy, but that's also why they wean the big calves. You get very little to nothing fof free. I've culled Angus, Simmental, Hereford and Beefmaster cows because of bad udders and bottle treats. I've culled 2 Simmental cows because of blown out bags and tendons in the udder. Every year their bag would get bigger with each calf.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Grit - Thanks!
Not saying never had a bad bag - just not as prevalent as some breeds - especially considering they are a high milking breed. No where near as heavy milking now as they used to be. Rarely would I have a calf that could drain more than 1-2 quarters at birth in the beginning. Sometimes a few weeks before they ever were pulling on all 4. Now, it's a very rare occasion that the calf doesn't get all 4 right away. Calves are a lot more vigorous now also.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Calves are a lot more vigorous now also.

What do you think is the cause of this?

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

"Most" of my original problem was a lack of Selenium for many years. But, I have to "assume" some of the problem was just plain old genetics. Calves were big, but never dystocia problem - no more than expected on any farm. Just laid around forever.
Getting away from "fullblood" pedigrees, I think, was the biggest change in vigorous calves. "American made" Simmentals were developed with more fool-proof genetics in mind. Breeders of all breeds develop cattle that work for the average commercial man eventually, I think.
Because of original calving difficulties in my breed, breeders have improved CE more than any other breed (mainly because most British breeds didn't need to!!).

 

[elkwc]

Jeanne we have a PB Black Simmental breeders few miles down the road. He supposedly has top bloodlines many I see on here. His don't have anymore frame and growth than our good Angus. Seems every breed has moderated frame size. The reasons I looked at Simmentals was for the frame, growth and muscling of the old originals but haven't found it. And some don't milk as much as our Angus and Herefords.

Not trying to argue just stating what we see here. And I do really like some of them.

 

[Texas Gal]

Being in Texas, I would run a Brangus bull with those baldy heifers.

 

[elkwc]

Being in Texas, I would run a Brangus bull with those baldy heifers.

We have some Brandy's cows that are 14-16 y/o. Will likely be the only old cows we don't sell this year. They look like 9's and wean a big calves every year. Have kept their daughters and they make great mothers.Would buy some young ones if I could find them.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Being in Texas, I would run a Brangus bull with those baldy heifers.

We have some Brandy's cows that are 14-16 y/o. Will likely be the only old cows we don't sell this year. They look like 9's and wean a big calves every year. Have kept their daughters and they make great mothers.Would buy some young ones if I could find them.

http://www.wynneranch.com
They have all the heifers or bulls you want. And you won't find any better.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

elkwc - I totally agree on the moderation of frame size - all breeds. Way back when, the Angus breed bashed the Simmental breed with ads about the Elephant breed. Then the Angus breeders started chasing frame & then they became the Elephant breed, because we had already started down-sizing. Now all breeds have moderated, but last report I saw, Angus was the biggest cow breed.
There are some good well muscled Angus around, but if I were Angus I would be ashamed at how the Hereford breed has come on and have much better rear quarters than the majority of Angus I see. Trust me, I am not out to bash Angus. If I ever wanted to raise crossbred, commercial cattle it would be Angus x Simmental. The two breeds really, really compliment each other. The Angus breeders just need to quit looking solely at numbers & open their eyes & LOOK at what they are producing.
I agree we have lost size. My WW used to run in high 700's (actual), average (heifers, steers & bulls), now they average high 600's (actual). Lost 100#, but I have the right kind of cattle - for commercial or purebred, IMHO. Even my 7-9 frame cows I used to have ran on grass & hay.
Not questioning the type of cattle around you, but with what I see and know, it's hard to believe that the heaviest milking breed in the past, is not milking as well as Angus & Hereford. No where close in any herds I have seen.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

And, to the original poster, if you are in Texas, a little ear is not a bad idea.

 

[Stocker Steve]

There are some good well muscled Angus around, but if I were Angus I would be ashamed at how the Hereford breed has come on and have much better rear quarters than the majority of Angus I see. Trust me, I am not out to bash Angus. If I ever wanted to raise crossbred, commercial cattle it would be Angus x Simmental. The two breeds really, really compliment each other.

Would you give some specifics on this cross, vs. baldies or limflex, in the north ?

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Original "baldies" were Hereford x Angus. You got great heterosis/hybred vigor crossing two PB breeds.
Then the continentals came along. Best heterosis was crossing two different groups, using 1 from british and 1 from Continental.
The further you get away from the gene pool, the more genetic "kick" you get (free money because of the increased ww on the first cross and the increase cow power using a crossbred dam.
MARC research showed Angus was #1 in marbling for all british breeds. Simmental was #1 for all Continentals. See the report data below: (CT is not letting me space stuff out, so you will have to just read across. It gives you the trait, then the ranking for Simmental, then the ranking for Angus): this chart was copywritten in 2015, but I don't know when the research at MARC was dated.

Economic Traits Simmental Ranking Among Continental Breeds Angus Ranking Among British Breeds

Calving Ease First (Tie) First
Weaning Weight First First
Percent Choice First Second
Carcass Weight First First
Post Wean Gain First First
Pounds of Retail Product Second First
Shear Force First (Tie) First
Feed Efficiency by Weight Gain First Second
Feed Efficiency by Marbling First First
Feed Efficiency by Retail Product First Second
Feed Efficiency by Days Second Second
Percent Puberty First Second
Percent Pregnancy Second Third
Maternal Calving Ease First Second
Maternal Weaning Weight Second First

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I cannot comment on Limflex - but they are basically the same idea - Continental crossed with British

 

[Stocker Steve]

Just shipped a reg Simi bull today. Too framy and not much respect for people, but he looked really good getting on the trailer. Still have two sim angus and two angus bulls in the pen. Looked for a Hereford bull this spring but came up empty.

My main issue with Simi is they are not as maternal as some other breeds. I don't think MARC evaluated that trait, and many of the traits Simi leads on are not ones that the calf producers is paid for. So, I think a baldy bred simi will make the most $$$ for a lower input commercial operation in the north.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Well, we must be doing something wrong, since Simmental is supposed to be THE maternal breed. Sorry, they have not, are not, working out for you. Obviously, you run a lot of cows, you know what is working for you.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I have too many cows, and like to calve on pasture, so usually they need to mother up on their own.

I have noticed that several of these casual simi mothers will let anyone suck, so I think they could make good nurse cows.

 

[runner]

I heard buyers in KY don't like Simmental. Here its black or charolais cattle. That bring the most.

Alot are getting Hereford bulls here know

 

[BRYANT]

And, to the original poster, if you are in Texas, a little ear is not a bad idea.

If they had some ear I could sale every heifer out of them for a GOOD above market price. and steers would take a very small, if any, hit at the right sale.

 

[BRYANT]

I just noticed you are from Ky. probably not the right part of the country to talk about adding ear to cattle.