Black and Red Chars.

[Scotty]

What is your opinion on the program on RFD TV. Prairy farm Report. Seems Canada recognizes red and blk Chars. A quote was that after some time all breeders will accept blk hide in their breed. Seems we have something here. Anyone else catch this show.


Scotty

 

[andybob]

Scotty;I feel that if the colour change is achieved by hybridisation, the composites should be identified as such,it just seems the honest thing to do. If I want to use a certain genotype, I should be able to distinguish between the fullblood or traditional type and the composite without having to read up it's pedigree. Some breeds still discriminate against black colouration, if we want the colour for market conditions, then we can include the desired breed in our crossbreeding programme.

 

[BC]

I have seen some Charolais cattle that carried the red gene. They were the color of Limousin or Gelbvieh cattle before they thought they had to be black. The Charolais Association recognizes this color in their standard of excellence. I felt they had a place in a crossbreeding program.

I have never seen a black Charolais and cannot figure out where the color came from unless there is some funny back pasture breeding going. on.

 

[MikeC]

If the cattle are 15/16 or 31/32 purebred, the only gene that isn't pure is probably the black or red gene.

I don't really see the need for it though. People put way to much emphasis on cattle color. A good calf is a good calf no matter what color it is.

 

[jaydill]

In some instances, the change in color indicates that some other breed was crossbred in at some point in the calf's lineage. i.e. Chianinas which were once tall and white with black points have somehow become shorter and black with minimal amounts of Chi in them and more Maine and Angus. The change from white to black indicated the crossbreeding of Maine and Angus into them. I guess the point I'm trying to make, MikeC, is that it's not so much important as to the quality of the calf. More towards keeping the breed purebred or identifying a calf as purebred.

 

[MikeC]

In some instances, the change in color indicates that some other breed was crossbred in at some point in the calf's lineage. i.e. Chianinas which were once tall and white with black points have somehow become shorter and black with minimal amounts of Chi in them and more Maine and Angus. The change from white to black indicated the crossbreeding of Maine and Angus into them. I guess the point I'm trying to make, MikeC, is that it's not so much important as to the quality of the calf. More towards keeping the breed purebred or identifying a calf as purebred.

I have a hard time understanding why you would even care or why could it even be important.

If another breed was used 50 generations ago that changed the color, what difference does it make? There would be such a miniscule amount of those genes there it wouldn't make a hill of beans.

We should be more worried about what's "Under" the hide, instead of what the color is.

The "black" thing is a fad that will blow over as fast as it came.

 

[CattleAnnie]

Still haven't laid eyes on a black Char yet, but I am using a Red factor bull as one of my herdsires.

Quite like him, as he'll throw tan calves out of black cows, which makes for more uniformity at sale time when grouped with the tan calves from my red cows that are sired by my traditionally white Char bull.

Just my point of view.



Take care.

 

[cfpinz]

The "black" thing is a fad that will blow over as fast as it came.

MikeC - I wish you were right, but think it will be around a lot longer than it should, at least in the market's eyes. As others have stated, a good calf is a good calf no matter the color. Last time I checked, I was selling beef, not leather.

cfpinz

 

[businessbreed]

it's a shame that charlois have to be like every other breed and try to emulate Angus

 

[MikeC]

it's a shame that charlois have to be like every other breed and try to emulate Angus

That's certainly a blanket statement. Black Chars aren't allowed in the U.S. registry. In fact, there are only a few black ones in Canada.

What's a shame is the Angus folks are so paranoid that they don't understand that cattlemen are simply trying to make a set of calves more uniform visually by making them the same color, and the black gene being dominant is the easiest way to achieve it.

"Every" other breed is quite a stretch there, isn't it?

 

[Frankie]

The "black" thing is a fad that will blow over as fast as it came.

The "black" thing may blow over, but I think the "Angus" thing will be around for a long time.

I'm disappointed to see the Chars are turning black and red, too. Do you think the US Char Assn will eventually allow black ones into the breed registry?

Angus breeders understand perfectly why other breeds are turning black: they're trying to get some of that CAB premium.

 

[novaman]

I hope I live long enough to see a fad for white cattle. Not just because I have a number of Char but more so I can see how people react to it. I would have to agree that I don't want to see a black Char animal either but if that's what it takes to keep pace with the market then why not? If the black Char ever do get established maybe they could rival Simm as the popular cross with Angus.

 

[la4angus]

Angus breeders understand perfectly why other breeds are turning black: they're trying to get some of that CAB premium.

What's the breeders of these other odd colored continentals gonna do when CAB quits accepting them. Oh well, they may have enough Angus in them to help them grade good enuf to bring some sort of premium that they wouldn't get if they were purebred continental.

 

[dun]

The vet was up at some large stud in Canada a couple of months ago and saw more red charolais then white but more white then black

dun

 

[MikeC]

Angus breeders understand perfectly why other breeds are turning black: they're trying to get some of that CAB premium.

What's the breeders of these other odd colored continentals gonna do when CAB quits accepting them. Oh well, they may have enough Angus in them to help them grade good enuf to bring some sort of premium that they wouldn't get if they were purebred continental.

Not accepting the crossbreds would probably not be a good idea for CAB. They are having a heck of a time finding ones that grade good enough within the Angus breed now. Especially ones that yield better than YG 3.9.

If that happened they might find enough to feed the Rhode Island Cattlemens Association once a year. ;-)

 

[C HOLLAND]

I like cows that not only eat green, but make lots of GREEN, the folding type

 

[BWA]

Here is a link to a bull sale with a large selection of red genetics. In my opinion the red bulls have been outselling the white bulls for quite some time. The quality of the reds in general is not as good as the whites. But people want the buckskin calves cause they sell better than the whites.

http://www.buyagro.com/cats/2006/sandan06/index.htm

 

[Frankie]

Angus breeders understand perfectly why other breeds are turning black: they're trying to get some of that CAB premium.

What's the breeders of these other odd colored continentals gonna do when CAB quits accepting them. Oh well, they may have enough Angus in them to help them grade good enuf to bring some sort of premium that they wouldn't get if they were purebred continental.

Not accepting the crossbreds would probably not be a good idea for CAB. They are having a heck of a time finding ones that grade good enough within the Angus breed now. Especially ones that yield better than YG 3.9.

If that happened they might find enough to feed the Rhode Island Cattlemens Association once a year. ;-)

I think that when animal ID is in place and the AngusSource tag gets going, an animal will have to be half Angus to be CAB. I don't know what that's going to do to the breeds that have tried to turn themselves into Angus.

And, Mike, animals known to be sired by a registered Angus bulls tend to have a higher CAB acceptance rate. So if we can weed out all those "imitation" Angus, we'd probably raise the acceptance rate pretty quickly.

 

[VanC]

http://www.laueranch.com/home.html

 

[Scotty]

The few blk ones I saw on the TV looked like Maine Anjous. I really don't care if every breed turns blk. I would think that most would want to stay pure and original. Thats why Red Angus, while an nice breed, IMO should not be in the same association as the blk. Flattery is the best compliment. IMO turning color is not flattering to me as an Angus breeder. I think the chars should stay white.


Scotty