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another black gene question

rockridgecattle

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following along with the other gene threads recently:

End result: red calf

Father: PB Black Angus

Mother:
Char x Sim x Herford (from dam) x Red Angus(father)

Did the calf come out red because of the mother or because the black angus bull may have had a red gene?
 

dun

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There are only 2 ways it can happen. Both carry the red gene or the cow carrys it and so does the neighbors bull.
 

randiliana

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Both, the sire had to carry the red gene, and your cow was either red or tan in color. Tan is a diluted version of red.

Remember, red is recessive, for a red calf BOTH parents must carry the red gene. The red gene can be carried by a black animal and passed on to its offspring.
 

Cattleman200

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You can test your bull for around $34 to see if he is Homo Black if you want to go that route. If you find out he is not homo black then he is either not a PB Angus or he is in a very very small identified group of Angus that carry the red gene.

The AAA kinda thought we were crazy for testing an Angus bull for homo black and homo polled. What they didnt understand is that we were breeding him to homo black homo polled Limousin cattle to get LimFlex that were homo for both traits and we needed to know so we would not have spend the money to test EVERY calf.


Circle H Ranch
 

rockridgecattle

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The mother is a deep tan brockle faced cow. I know that she has the red gene because she is 1/2 Red Angus (her father) and a mix of sim x char x herford cross ( dam )
NO and i say NO neighbors bulls.
 

hillsdown

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So here is one...

Dam blk Angus X Sire Red Gelbvieh = black heifer calf

Black calf now heifer X red Gelbvieh bull = tan(red) heifer calf

Blk calf (now cow) x (different) red Gelbvieh bull = light grey "silver" heifer calf..

Original blk Angus cow X 2nd red Gelbvieh bull = blk heifer calf
 

randiliana

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Cattleman200":2br7bs9l said:
You can test your bull for around $34 to see if he is Homo Black if you want to go that route. If you find out he is not homo black then he is either not a PB Angus or he is in a very very small identified group of Angus that carry the red gene.

The AAA kinda thought we were crazy for testing an Angus bull for homo black and homo polled. What they didnt understand is that we were breeding him to homo black homo polled Limousin cattle to get LimFlex that were homo for both traits and we needed to know so we would not have spend the money to test EVERY calf.


Circle H Ranch

In Canada, Red and Black Angus are considered the same breed. You can breed Red cows Black and register the Black calves as Black Angus and any Red calves as Red Angus. Only difference is that the red calves registered name is preceded by RED.
 

redcowsrule33

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B=black gene; b=red gene; D=dilution gene

hillsdown":6j8s1a65 said:
Dam blk Angus X Sire Red Gelbvieh = black heifer calf
Black angus = 2 black genes, black dominant.
BB x bb = Bb (black)

hillsdown":6j8s1a65 said:
Black calf now heifer X red Gelbvieh bull = tan(red) heifer calf
Red Gelbviehs can carry dilution genes but not be blonde. (I believe the double dilutors are "yellow")

Bb x bbD= 25%BbD (grey) , 25% Bb (black), 25% bbD (tan or lighter red), 25% bb (red). I'm guessing the calf is bbD.

hillsdown":6j8s1a65 said:
Blk calf (now cow) x (different) red Gelbvieh bull = light grey "silver" heifer calf..

Same deal as last time, bull also carries dilution gene, this time the calf is BbD (grey)

hillsdown":6j8s1a65 said:
Original blk Angus cow X 2nd red Gelbvieh bull = blk heifer calf

BB x bbD= 50% BbD (grey) and 50% Bb (black). Calf is Bb.

Clear as mud?

The very first red bull could have been a dilution carrier too but the heifer did not inherit it otherwise she would be grey.
 

randiliana

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rockridgecattle":21iq2q76 said:
The mother is a deep tan brockle faced cow. I know that she has the red gene because she is 1/2 Red Angus (her father) and a mix of sim x char x herford cross ( dam )
NO and i say NO neighbors bulls.

Tan = Red with the diluter gene. So your cow IS red and carries the diluter gene. Simm, Char AND Hereford are all red breeds, just the Char is usually homo for the dilutor, and the simm can carry a dilutor as well. Hereford can too, but I think that is a no-no for the breed.

Your Angus bull has to carry the red gene, if you are getting red (or tan) calves out of him.
 

capt

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Dam blk Angus X Sire Red Gelbvieh = black heifer calf BB x bb = Heterozygous black heifer calf (Bb genotype)

Black calf now heifer X red Gelbvieh bull = tan(red) heifer calf Bb heifer x bb bull possible dilutor carrier = bb possible dilutor carrier homozygous red heifer


Blk calf (now cow) x (different) red Gelbvieh bull = light grey "silver" heifer calf.. Bb cow x bb bull = Bb homozygous heifer calf

Original blk Angus cow X 2nd red Gelbvieh bull = blk heifer calf BB cow x bb bull = Bb heifer heterozygous black

I hope this is clear enough, tried using the blue font color to highlight my text. In my opinion, the original red gelbvieh bull mated to the black angus cow is not a dilutor carrier. The red gelbvieh bull mated to the heterozygous black heifer is possibly a dilutor carrier. Where I am not certain is if the red gelbvieh bull mated to the heterozygous black cow (third mating) is the same bull mated to the original black angus cow (fourth mating). If it is the same bull, then I think the bull from the second mating is the only dilutor carrier. If third mating and fourth mating bull is a different bull, then the bull from the third mating is probably a dilutor carrier as well. Sound right? Whew!! Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong. Good exercise in genetics and heritability .
 

bigbull338

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yes both the bull an the cow carry the red genes.so the calf could be red or black.wich in this case the calf is red.
 

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