Angus, RED or Black

[Anonymous]

> The secret to CAB success is the
> consistant quality of the meat.

Yea, you are able to keep SOME of the brahma cattle out so CAB might have consistant quality when compared to commodity beef.

 

[Anonymous]

Actually Mick Colvin ran the CAB program from its inception until he retired a couple of years ago. I think he's still some sort of "consultant" to the CAB program. And I got an email from my CAB supplier recently that Mick was coming to town to give a talk on quality beef. I didn't go, but guess he's not working for the packers. If all we need to do is sign an affadivat to get our cattle labeled COOL, you're right, the COOL label won't be worth the paper it's written on.

> Sure gotta hand it to you guys. It
> is great marketing to make people
> think that there is something
> better about beef from an Angus
> and then not even have to use
> Angus. Use any breed you want. Too
> cool! The guys that thought up
> this deal must have been geniuses.
> Bet they are working for the
> packers now. Won't be long before
> we have beef labeled as being
> produced in the USA but in actual
> practice it will be able to be
> produced anywhere. Way Too Cool!

 

[Anonymous]

Excuse me. Please do some research on the current American breeds before you start trashing them. The current Nolan Ryan program is not being able to keep up with demand for one reason. To be accepted into the program, the carcass must be select grade, the problem is, about 60% of the animals are grading low choice or better. All while carrying a little ear. I believe that is right around the industry average for choice percentage. The good thing is they are also maintaining a constant yield Grade average of 2.99 or less. Another thing, Texas A&M held a carcass quality test on several Beefmaster bulls. The calves were all 1/2 Beefmaster and the other 1/2 commercial. Surprise, two of the bulls didn't have one select carcass. One had 80% Choice & 20 % Prime, and another had about 70/30. Don't tell me the American breeds don't grade until you can prove it.

 

[Anonymous]

> Excuse me. Please do some research
> on the current American breeds
> before you start trashing them.
> The current Nolan Ryan program is
> not being able to keep up with
> demand for one reason. To be
> accepted into the program, the
> carcass must be select grade, the
> problem is, about 60% of the
> animals are grading low choice or
> better. All while carrying a
> little ear. I believe that is
> right around the industry average
> for choice percentage. The good
> thing is they are also maintaining
> a constant yield Grade average of
> 2.99 or less. Another thing, Texas
> A&M held a carcass quality test on
> several Beefmaster bulls. The
> calves were all 1/2 Beefmaster and
> the other 1/2 commercial.
> Surprise, two of the bulls didn't
> have one select carcass. One had
> 80% Choice & 20 % Prime, and
> another had about 70/30. Don't
> tell me the American breeds don't
> grade until you can prove it

You're excused. Did I write that brahma influenced breeds wouldn't quality grade?

Research and Facts = Large amounts of objective research including USDA research at the MARC, Australian, South American and reseach in other countries has demonstrated that brahma genetics produce less tender beef. (Not too mention reams of subjective research showing the same thing) Are all brahma cattle tougher than all other breeds, NO! Do all breeds with Brahma influence produce tougher beef than all other breeds NO!, Depends upon selection and processing.

I hold the Nolan Ryan branded beef program in very high regard, there are multiple, direct selection criteria for good beef (much more than just hide color or base genetics). Plus, I happen to believe that the people involved with that beef program posess a high degree of credibility.

As far as statements that the program can't keep up with the demand because they can't get enough select grade beef, all I can say is 1. Those are your statements, not NRB statements. 2. They must be selling one hell of a lot more beef than I think they are, do the math, there is a whole lot of select beef in the U.S., Please do some research.

 

[Anonymous]

51 percent black hide was a quick way to eliminate animals that were not of black angus genetics when CAB was set up 30 some years agao. The SECRET to CAB success is the carcass quality specs that all qualifying animals have to meet. A black hide will get you a ticket in the door but the animal still has to meet all the other stringent requirements to make CAB. Why should the American Angus Association promote any other breed of cattle when it does not benefit its members?

 

[Anonymous]

Why should the American Angus
> Association promote any other
> breed of cattle when it does not
> benefit its members?

Great question. Why DOES the American Angus Association choose to promote any and all black hided cattle instead of reserving the CAB label for only Angus?????

 

[Anonymous]

They don't. They promote CERTIFIED ANGUS BEEF. And cattle sired by Angus bulls meet CAB criteria at a higher rate than "unknown" black bulls. Producers serious about meeting CAB specs are buying Angus bulls, not generic black bulls.

> Great question. Why DOES the
> American Angus Association choose
> to promote any and all black hided
> cattle instead of reserving the
> CAB label for only Angus?????

 

[Anonymous]

When the CAB specs were developed and implemented black cattle were angus and angus crosses. The CAB program is built around carcass quality. Not all angus qualify for CAB, but you have a far better chance of doing it with angus genetics and carcass EPD's than a salebarn cow freshener. Is the program perfect NO!

pat
> Why should the American Angus

> Great question. Why DOES the
> American Angus Association choose
> to promote any and all black hided
> cattle instead of reserving the
> CAB label for only Angus?????

 

[Anonymous]

Sounds to me like you are blaming the Angus Association for other breeds going black. Instead of the other breeds promoting the qualities of their breeds they chose to ride on the coat tails of the Angus Association and select for black hides. This wouldn't as big a topic if the other breeds would have stayed true to breed and not try to disguise themselves as Angus. The problem is not CAB it is want-a-be breeds that have come along sense the inception of CAB. There a even Hereford breeders breeding for black. Isn't it sad? YES!!!

Tod NTD Red Angus

> Why should the American Angus

> Great question. Why DOES the
> American Angus Association choose
> to promote any and all black hided
> cattle instead of reserving the
> CAB label for only Angus?????

 

[Anonymous]

> Sounds to me like you are blaming
> the Angus Association for other
> breeds going black. Instead of the
> other breeds promoting the
> qualities of their breeds they
> chose to ride on the coat tails of
> the Angus Association and select
> for black hides. This wouldn't as
> big a topic if the other breeds
> would have stayed true to breed
> and not try to disguise themselves
> as Angus. The problem is not CAB
> it is want-a-be breeds that have
> come along sense the inception of
> CAB. There a even Hereford
> breeders breeding for black. Isn't
> it sad? YES!!!

I totally agree

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[Anonymous]

lets remember that the market requested black hides, I personally prefer RED but in the States many people just go crazy with Black hide, and like the market requested Black many breeders began going Black, as I know in many countries, breeds that in its origin weren't Black and went Black are not eligible to be registered. Not only cause the market went black every breed should go black, but many irresponsable breeders went Black just for the $$$$ and they didn't care much of the original breed characteristics. I have seen in many semen dealers catalogs Red and Black whatever breed that if it is use with a registered herd the semen will ruin the herd. In a commercial basis physical characteristics does not matter to much, the commercial breeder is looking for pounds and carcass quality and I agree with that I'm giving my commercial herd a Red hide, but in the registered stuff we should keep the breeds with it's color patterns origins

> Sounds to me like you are blaming
> the Angus Association for other
> breeds going black. Instead of the
> other breeds promoting the
> qualities of their breeds they
> chose to ride on the coat tails of
> the Angus Association and select
> for black hides. This wouldn't as
> big a topic if the other breeds
> would have stayed true to breed
> and not try to disguise themselves
> as Angus. The problem is not CAB
> it is want-a-be breeds that have
> come along sense the inception of
> CAB. There a even Hereford
> breeders breeding for black. Isn't
> it sad? YES!!!

> Tod NTD Red Angus



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[Anonymous]

last weekend i took a load of calves to market. several were black, they were from a black limo bull, does this mean those calves will be CAB. there were a couple calves from a charlois bull and black cows, the calves were smutty colored, are they going to be CAB. by the way, the highest selling calf was a heifer, red, tiger stripe with a white face, from a tiger stripe cow and beefmaster bull. i bet it won't be CAB, but it brought the most money, and for me that is what counts the most.



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[Anonymous]

> Sounds to me like you are blaming
> the Angus Association for other
> breeds going black. Instead of the
> other breeds promoting the
> qualities of their breeds they
> chose to ride on the coat tails of
> the Angus Association and select
> for black hides.

Tod, you got me wrong, I don't condone the deception that is going on by non-angus breeders any more than the deception by CAB. Any person who represents his cattle as Angus when they aren't should feel just as bad as someone who tells people the meat they are consuming is angus when it may not be. It is all the same. Frankie, if they advertise selling Angus beef, then maybe they should actually make sure they are selling Angus beef, is that too much to ask? Patb, how about calling it a "High Quality, specially selected, A lot of fat, Certified Beef Program? NO, far from perfect, but what is wrong with cleaning up your own house? Have you ever heard of beef improvement? How about an improvement in honesty to your customers? Alejandro, the "market" says you should be raising fowl instead of beef, so if you believe everything the "market" tell you, maybe you should deal in other commodities.

 

[Anonymous]

weight is what it counts when we sell by the pound, I totally agree,

> last weekend i took a load of
> calves to market. several were
> black, they were from a black limo
> bull, does this mean those calves
> will be CAB. there were a couple
> calves from a charlois bull and
> black cows, the calves were smutty
> colored, are they going to be CAB.
> by the way, the highest selling
> calf was a heifer, red, tiger
> stripe with a white face, from a
> tiger stripe cow and beefmaster
> bull. i bet it won't be CAB, but
> it brought the most money, and for
> me that is what counts the most.



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[Anonymous]

Hey man, I don't even have Angus nor any black whatever breed, We breed Fullbloods and some Purebreds: Simmental, Charolais, Limousin, Braunvieh, Normandes, Brahman, Nelores and several other breeds, but we keep our herd blood clean. We don't care about Black. What I said is that many American breeders went black just for $$$ and that ruin many other breeds characteristics that went Black cause by the American Market demand.

> Tod, you got me wrong, I don't
> condone the deception that is
> going on by non-angus breeders any
> more than the deception by CAB.
> Any person who represents his
> cattle as Angus when they aren't
> should feel just as bad as someone
> who tells people the meat they are
> consuming is angus when it may not
> be. It is all the same. Frankie,
> if they advertise selling Angus
> beef, then maybe they should
> actually make sure they are
> selling Angus beef, is that too
> much to ask? Patb, how about
> calling it a "High Quality,
> specially selected, A lot of fat,
> Certified Beef Program? NO, far
> from perfect, but what is wrong
> with cleaning up your own house?
> Have you ever heard of beef
> improvement? How about an
> improvement in honesty to your
> customers? Alejandro, the
> "market" says you should
> be raising fowl instead of beef,
> so if you believe everything the
> "market" tell you, maybe
> you should deal in other
> commodities.



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[Anonymous]

> Certified Angus Beef can be black
> or red percentage angus. Yes it can be certified angus if red or black. But it is a fact that red angus and black angus are two seperate breeds.

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[Anonymous]

CAB is a branded product like ford, John Deere. Everyone gets hung up on the black hide requirement of CAB. The real deciding factor is the carcass quality period. As stated before a black hide gets you in the door but if you do not have the carcass quality you do not make it. The Red Angus association has a nice program with sterling Silver label with similiar carcass quality standards. The CAB program was designed to promote Black angus. The whole CAB program is based on Carcass Quality.

pat

> Tod, you got me wrong, I don't
> condone the deception that is
> going on by non-angus breeders any
> more than the deception by CAB.
> Any person who represents his
> cattle as Angus when they aren't
> should feel just as bad as someone
> who tells people the meat they are
> consuming is angus when it may not
> be. It is all the same. Frankie,
> if they advertise selling Angus
> beef, then maybe they should
> actually make sure they are
> selling Angus beef, is that too
> much to ask? Patb, how about
> calling it a "High Quality,
> specially selected, A lot of fat,
> Certified Beef Program? NO, far
> from perfect, but what is wrong
> with cleaning up your own house?
> Have you ever heard of beef
> improvement? How about an
> improvement in honesty to your
> customers? Alejandro, the
> "market" says you should
> be raising fowl instead of beef,
> so if you believe everything the
> "market" tell you, maybe
> you should deal in other
> commodities.

 

[Anonymous]

CAB requirements state that it has to have 51 percent black hide and meet the carcass quality standards.

pat

 

[Anonymous]

I believe Cargill/Excell's Sterling Silver is a branded beef program open to any breed or color that meets its requirements. I don't think Angus can lay claim to that one.

> CAB is a branded product like
> ford, John Deere. Everyone gets
> hung up on the black hide
> requirement of CAB. The real
> deciding factor is the carcass
> quality period. As stated before a
> black hide gets you in the door
> but if you do not have the carcass
> quality you do not make it. The
> Red Angus association has a nice
> program with sterling Silver label
> with similiar carcass quality
> standards. The CAB program was
> designed to promote Black angus.
> The whole CAB program is based on
> Carcass Quality.

> pat

 

[Anonymous]

Contrary to what you may believe, I do understand the carcass qualifications in the CAB program. And you are right, it is about reaching a choice quality grade, whether or not the cattle happen to be Angus is pretty secondary, according to you and according to the actual way in which the program works.

That is precisely my point. If angus genetics aren't verified through some method, then it is totally dishonest to use a breed name (angus) in the brand name of your product. Does the Red Angus promote that, NO, any of thier branded programs are based on breed verification. Only the Angus and Hereford associations are arrogant enough to base a branded program on hide color and not care what breed is utilized. Will offer one last thought and then leave angus, hereford breeders (and non angus or hereford breeders who abuse the CAB and CHB programs) to follow their own concious. What makes you so sure that when the class action lawsuits start, that every previous seller on the CAB grid and every individual member of the American Angus Association won't be named along with the association?.......after all, what is an association other than a collective made up of individual members?