Angus/Herford vs Angus/Simmental

[elkwc]

I agreed with Lazy M on many things. Quality is quality.

+1

 

[elkwc]

My point is that farming by textbook isn't going to work in the real world. The value of a cow is determined by production not theory.
That being said, no pasture ornaments here and I'll be happy to compare weaning weights with you anytime.

You will loose every time against a Brahman cross calf no brag just fact.
Willy nilly breeding looses money no two ways about that was the way it
was done fifty years ago.
Cattle breeding is not supposed to be like a box of chocolates.

I agree that one should plan out their breeding and herd future. My point is that all that has to translate into quality animals or your wasting your time and money. Simple point..not sure why you can't comprehend.
BTW: bring some of those Brahma crossed bell ringer calves here to market and you'd be lucky to get cull cow prices

+1 Each person has to manage his operation to his environment and market. I have nothing against Brahma's but they leave too much on the table in this area.

 

[elkwc]

My point is that farming by textbook isn't going to work in the real world. The value of a cow is determined by production not theory.
That being said, no pasture ornaments here and I'll be happy to compare weaning weights with you anytime.

+1

 

[Caustic Burno]

My point is that farming by textbook isn't going to work in the real world. The value of a cow is determined by production not theory.
That being said, no pasture ornaments here and I'll be happy to compare weaning weights with you anytime.

+1

Tough decision go with the research of major Ag universities since 1960
Might try reading improving the cow herd by Greg Riley it could really help you.

 

[Muddy]

Well lot of things have changed since 1960, CB.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Well lot of things have changed since 1960, CB.

Did you just have an epiphany?
That is exactly what the research shows you don't want to read that has continuously
been researched since then.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Try this along with other research might help.



http://msucares.com/livestock/beef/geneticslunch4.pdf

 

[Lazy M]

My point is that farming by textbook isn't ALWAYS going to work in the real world. The value of a cow is determined by production not theory.
That being said, no pasture ornaments here and I'll be happy to compare weaning weights with you anytime.

+1

Tough decision go with the research of major Ag universities since 1960
Might try reading improving the cow herd by Greg Riley it could really help you.

I re-editted the quote above. I won't say that the research and theories are always wrong, or even mostly wrong, but often the tests are conducted in ways that don't take into account all the variables like regional differences. That being said it's incumbent on us to study up and decide if applying the recommendations are worthwhile in our operations

 

[elkwc]

Well lot of things have changed since 1960, CB.

+1

 

[sim.-ang.king]

Try this along with other research might help.



http://msucares.com/livestock/beef/geneticslunch4.pdf

Some "research" they didn't even bring continentals into the mix, looked more like someone trying to sell brah. and hereford bulls.


A pound is a pound, and a dollar is a dollar.
If you make a pound and earn a dollar. You still only have one pound, and one dollar, and in the end it really makes no deference how you got there.

 

[boondocks]

Getting back to the (second) main poster's question, am I the only one thinking it's a brave (I'm trying to be diplomatic here) person who starts out with 80 cows and 5 bulls as a beginner?
I've been at it a few years now and can't conceive of 80, even if I had the land and the time.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Well lot of things have changed since 1960, CB.

+1

First you need to learn to read the research has been conducted continually since 1960 and the results keep coming back the same.
The science is there this isn't about regional differences or preference I posted one link there are plenty of others. This about the most pounds that will grade. Ag university in fla has some excellent
work on cross breeding in several crosses among a ton of breeds still nothing weans more
pounds than the Brahman cross with English breeds .
No cross will beat the Hereford/Brahman for hybrid vigor again just science.
If I could produce more pounds out of a yak/ musk ox cross that is what I would be striving for.
Again this goes back to a basic understanding of hybrid vigor and cross breeding a bovine to
maximum potential.

 

[Lazy M]

Well lot of things have changed since 1960, CB.

+1

First you need to learn to read the research has been conducted continually since 1960 and the results keep coming back the same.
The science is there this isn't about regional differences or preference I posted one link there are plenty of others. This about the most pounds that will grade. Ag university in fla has some excellent
work on cross breeding in several crosses among a ton of breeds still nothing weans more
pounds than the Brahman cross with English breeds .
No cross will beat the Hereford/Brahman for hybrid vigor again just science.
If I could produce more pounds out of a yak/ musk ox cross that is what I would be striving for.
Again this goes back to a basic understanding of hybrid vigor and cross breeding a bovine to
maximum potential.

You need to better define your argument. You make the jump that better performance and more pounds equal more $. That's not necessarily the case. Where I'm located, anything with ear and extra hide is getting killed at market. If I brought in a load of Brahma crossed calves the buyers would yawn and pick up their newspapers, regardless if those calves were 20# heavier.

 

[M.Magis]

I'm a little confused how the topic of the brahma cross came up since the young man is in Canada?

 

[Caustic Burno]

We are not talking 20 lbs we are talking 20% more at weaning.
Where do you think your calves are going same place as mine.
Seven out of the top ten feedlots in the USA are located in the Midwest .

 

[Lazy M]

We are not talking 20 lbs we are talking 20% more at weaning.
Where do you think your calves are going same place as mine.
Seven out of the top ten feedlots in the USA are located in the Midwest .

Last year's steers. Their average weight was around 750# after I fed them for 60 days. You're claiming that they would have averaged 900# if I'd used Brahma-based bulls? :bs:
BTW: they sold in groups with the smokes and blacks combined. Only the one RWF sold as a single. These were sired by a char bull (neighbor's), a Hereford bull, a SimAng bull, and angus bulls. Going back to my original point: a good bull +good cows will equal quality calves regardless of breed.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I'm a little confused how the topic of the brahma cross came up since the young man is in Canada?

Very simple by bad advice telling a fellow to use any good bull.
There is to much research for the commercial cattle man to maximize and utilize hybrid vigor regardless the breed. If he is not he is leaving dollars on the table by cutting weaning weights
10 to 20%.
The data is out there to maximize your pounds that grade on any breed you choose to run.

That is like crossing Hereford with SH absolutely the worse two way cross for hybrid vigor yielding the lowest percentage of pounds. Just science these calves are now genome mapped with an educated buyer what will yield the most pounds on the fewest days of feed.
If you are not willing to continually educate yourself to provide what the buyer wants you will never draw premium price or survive for decades.
The cattleman today produces the same pounds of beef off ten cows that took fifteen forty years ago.

I would love to run straight Brahman or Hereford cattle that is not practical or the most profitable
To survive it gets down to a few simple rules a calf that will grade,mash the scales in the least amount of time.

It gets down to hillbilly logic or proven research.

 

[Lazy M]

I'm a little confused how the topic of the brahma cross came up since the young man is in Canada?

Very simple by bad advice telling a fellow to use any good bull.
There is to much research for the commercial cattle man to maximize and utilize hybrid vigor regardless the breed. If he is not he is leaving dollars on the table by cutting weaning weights
10 to 20%.
The data is out there to maximize your pounds that grade on any breed you choose to run.

That is like crossing Hereford with SH absolutely the worse two way cross for hybrid vigor yielding the lowest percentage of pounds. Just science these calves are now genome mapped with an educated buyer what will yield the most pounds on the fewest days of feed.
If you are not willing to continually educate yourself to provide what the buyer wants you will never draw premium price or survive for decades.
The cattleman today produces the same pounds of beef off ten cows that took fifteen forty years ago.

I would love to run straight Brahman or Hereford cattle that is not practical or the most profitable
To survive it gets down to a few simple rules a calf that will grade,mash the scales in the least amount of time.

It gets down to hillbilly logic or proven research.

So in your opinion personal experience=hillbilly logic.. Well I guess that I'll own that :tiphat:

 

[Caustic Burno]

Wow what a pity.

 

[Lazy M]

Sorry professor. I just can't get myself to blindly follow the wise teachings of academia I need to test theories myself. Enjoy the conferences.