Angus/Herford vs Angus/Simmental

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Simmental or Herford

  • Simmental

    Votes: 20 32.8%
  • Herford

    Votes: 34 55.7%
  • Other

    Votes: 7 11.5%

  • Total voters
    61
Caustic Burno":4pe9aebm said:
Muddy":4pe9aebm said:
I agree with you, Sim.-Ang.King. I preferred the cattle that makes me money while works great in my own environment.

Char is a fine animal as long as is in someone else's pasture along with the SIMM. Tried both on this journey if its roots don't trace back to England or India you can keep them IMO.
Come on now Professor. Why do you push progressive breeding research down everyone else's throats and then you throw out crap like this? You're research hasn't led you to determine that there are such things as lbw sim and char? Sounds like you're basing you're breeding descisions on personal experience.. Sounds familiar.
BTW: tell that joke again about not being able to fold up your wallet..that one never gets old..
 
Lazy M":1sf2863n said:
Caustic Burno":1sf2863n said:
Muddy":1sf2863n said:
I agree with you, Sim.-Ang.King. I preferred the cattle that makes me money while works great in my own environment.

Char is a fine animal as long as is in someone else's pasture along with the SIMM. Tried both on this journey if its roots don't trace back to England or India you can keep them IMO.
Come on now Professor. Why do you push progressive breeding research down everyone else's throats and then you throw out crap like this? You're research hasn't led you to determine that there are such things as lbw sim and char? Sounds like you're basing you're breeding descisions on personal experience.. Sounds familiar.
BTW: tell that joke again about not being able to fold up your wallet..that one never gets old..
+1
 
Muddy":fqly3ldq said:
I agree with you, Sim.-Ang.King. I preferred the cattle that makes me money while works great in my own environment.
+1
 
elkwc":2012qqiu said:
Muddy":2012qqiu said:
I agree with you, Sim.-Ang.King. I preferred the cattle that makes me money while works great in my own environment.
+1
Funny y'all want to teach with advice but you don't want to be taught and learn from academics.
Today's cattle market is ate up with academia from conception to the order buyer feed lot to the slaughter house.

:pop: :pop: :pop:
 
Caustic Burno":2yie7fuj said:
Lazy M":2yie7fuj said:
Sorry professor. I just can't get myself to blindly follow the wise teachings of academia I need to test theories myself. Enjoy the conferences.

You can educate ignorance you can't fix stupid.
I going to choose to think your just ignorant.
Academia sure has lead us in the right direction for the last half century
in genetics to epds guess they had that wrong as well.

Academia led many on the frame race. Guess you liked that. Now they are intent on chasing and pushing EPD's with low accuracies. I can tell you how that has worked for many. Academia will never replace good judgement formed from experience and listening to those with skin in the game. The majority of academia have no skin in the game. When they decided to go to the bank with me and co sign then I will pay more attention to their opinions. I'm all for change if it is done in the correct way and not just for change sake like too many of the fads we've seen. I trust good cattlemen way more than I do someone in a lecture room with no skin in the game.
 
The smartest response (IMO) is that both personal experience from skilled cattlemen and/or cattlewomen AND academia should be included in one's research. Not sure how SIMM was gigged by personal experience that occurred in yesteryear, other than yes, they created a lot of train wrecks a long time ago. That is no longer the case, and both academia and personal experience from the past 20 years prove that out. Both academia and proven feedlot data from today also hold that SimAngus are more than holding their own against other breeds or crosses, and often are at the very top. I think the choice for me would be dependent upon my reason for the cross. If I wanted strictly maternal, I would put a lot of emphasis on the Angus/Hereford cross, and come back with Simmental for the third cross for a blend of both maternal heifers and feedlot steers. If the third cross was solely terminal, then definitely would use a purebred continental based bull, or a brangus. EPD's would certainly be used when determining the bull for whatever breed I chose.
 
My cow/calf philosophy is to get the most positive results in as many areas as possible, with taking on as few potential negatives as possible. I like the Angus/Hereford crosses, that's not to say that I disagree with using Continentals, it's just not for me at this time.
I had Charolais for several years, and overall the results were pretty good, but as recent as calving year 1996, I had one of those train wrecks. I know it was one bull out of several others over time, but still that was a devastating year, and I don't want a repeat of it.
Since that time, I have started using available information, I do think that BW, and CED, EPD's, along with growth EPD's give at the very least a guideline to compare bulls from. I realize that Continentals can give heavier weaning weights, but if there is calving dystocia, then those gains can be negated. As for Brahman and their crosses, I have recently became very interested in what they could bring to my herd. I have a few lower percentage crosses, that consistently raise nice calves. I have been thinking that incorporating some percentage Brahman into my cowherd, that it would give a little more frame to the calves, without negating maternal traits.
 
Ky hills":3vubu3ge said:
I have been thinking that incorporating some percentage Brahman into my cowherd, that it would give a little more frame to the calves, without negating maternal traits.
CB could tell you better than me but I'd say that a percentage brahma would improve many/most maternal traits, as well as potentially giving you a bump on weaning weights.
 
Lazy M":3ige5be8 said:
Ky hills":3ige5be8 said:
I have been thinking that incorporating some percentage Brahman into my cowherd, that it would give a little more frame to the calves, without negating maternal traits.
CB could tell you better than me but I'd say that a percentage brahma would improve many/most maternal traits, as well as potentially giving you a bump on weaning weights.
Yes it would help on maternal traits you would have to be careful on percentage due to your market so you could keep the hide tight and ears trimmed IMOO I would think 1/8 to 1/4 max.
I still have a few F-1s I have been moving to 1/4 as I see I have gained more than I lost.
To me the biggest bang out of Brahman is longevity I don't even start looking at teeth till twenty.
I sold some mighty fine Brahman influenced girls during the drought all over twenty with good teeth and still
dropping a calf every ten to eleven months.
Diversity can be the devil as well if you get to many breeds in the woodpile again IMO you need to careful research and selective breeding.
I used to love the F-1 when I was younger great for producing replacements terrible for to much ear showing up in steer calves. Market has changed many times and during my journey the one constant is big baldie calves sell at the top here.
I still get the pop on growth and longevity on the dam with my current angus bull I get big heavy baldie calves that draw premium dollar while mashing the scales.
 
Caustic Burno":33rn0qvy said:
Lazy M":33rn0qvy said:
Ky hills":33rn0qvy said:
I have been thinking that incorporating some percentage Brahman into my cowherd, that it would give a little more frame to the calves, without negating maternal traits.
CB could tell you better than me but I'd say that a percentage brahma would improve many/most maternal traits, as well as potentially giving you a bump on weaning weights.
Yes it would help on maternal traits you would have to be careful on percentage due to your market so you could keep the hide tight and ears trimmed IMOO I would think 1/8 to 1/4 max.
I still have a few F-1s I have been moving to 1/4 as I see I have gained more than I lost.
To me the biggest bang out of Brahman is longevity I don't even start looking at teeth till twenty.
I sold some mighty fine Brahman influenced girls during the drought all over twenty with good teeth and still
dropping a calf every ten to eleven months.
Diversity can be the devil as well if you get to many breeds in the woodpile again IMO you need to careful research and selective breeding.
I used to love the F-1 when I was younger great for producing replacements terrible for to much ear showing up in steer calves. Market has changed many times and during my journey the one constant is big baldie calves sell at the top here.
I still get the pop on growth and longevity on the dam with my current angus bull I get big heavy baldie calves that draw premium dollar while mashing the scales.

Thank you CB. That is amazing to me about 20 yrs and still producing, at those intervals. I don't want to offend anyone but I don't think could find very many if any present day Angus, or anything else for that matter that would consistently hold up that long here. I like those baldie calves too, they are hard to beat as steers or for replacement heifers here. The markets here like calves with a little more frame, so maybe some Brangus on Hereford, or 1/4 Brahman 3/4 Hereford bred to Angus bulls.
 
KY the Brimmer crossbreed cow is like a mongrel dog they are just tough.
If I was a young man starting today I would want Brangus cows with a Hereford bull
second would be the other way around. The advantage of the Hereford cheaper to purchase here
The Brangus win in my mind just more expensive to acquire and replace.
 
Caustic Burno":mky30oo1 said:
KY the Brimmer crossbreed cow is like a mongrel dog they are just tough.
If I was a young man starting today I would want Brangus cows with a Hereford bull
second would be the other way around. The advantage of the Hereford cheaper to purchase here
The Brangus win in my mind just more expensive to acquire and replace.

Used to be several Brahman bulls, crossbred herds around here, not very many last few years, but some crosses seem to be increasing
around again. I have always liked them, if I do any AI this year, might just be to a Brangus bull.
 
Cb what do you think of a gert x hereford cross as a mama? I got a heifer in that cross im toying with keeping and breeding to a angus bull. In my neck of the woods i get docked for the ear and navel, but was thinking the angus would help clean that up. Ive heard some good things but mamas out of that cross so i thought bout giving it a try.
 
Sd1030":q21yq01x said:
Cb what do you think of a gert x hereford cross as a mama? I got a heifer in that cross im toying with keeping and breeding to a angus bull. In my neck of the woods i get docked for the ear and navel, but was thinking the angus would help clean that up. Ive heard some good things but mamas out of that cross so i thought bout giving it a try.

That should be a solid cow.
Uncle in the sixties used run 250 head of Gerts they were tough cattle that would eat you alive. I know they have really cleaned up the hide over the last few decades.
Your cow if I did my math right would be 3/16 ths Brahman 1/2 Hereford 5/16 th SH
That should be a kick butt maternal cow I really like the my running buddies SH grow a calf they must give pure cream turn the calves black and mash the scales. He has my Angus bull on his girls right now. Get a little Brahman in there and watch the pounds pop.
That sounds like winner winner to me.
 
Ky hills":ok369u8x said:
Caustic Burno":ok369u8x said:
KY the Brimmer crossbreed cow is like a mongrel dog they are just tough.
If I was a young man starting today I would want Brangus cows with a Hereford bull
second would be the other way around. The advantage of the Hereford cheaper to purchase here
The Brangus win in my mind just more expensive to acquire and replace.

Used to be several Brahman bulls, crossbred herds around here, not very many last few years, but some crosses seem to be increasing
around again. I have always liked them, if I do any AI this year, might just be to a Brangus bull.

At all cost do not use Brahman over Hereford cows if you get to thinking about some F-1s
Bull calves can be behemoths at birth this phenomenon only happens Brahman over Hereford
the other way around birth weight is suppressed .
Your ok Brangus over Hereford just look at the BW CE comparison chart between breeds.
 
Thanks for the warning CB, I would love to have some of those F1 females, but I won't take a chance on that with my Hereford cows.
The crosses that I have now are a registered Gert, a couple Gert/Herefords, and a couple Beefmasters. Years ago I bought what looked to be a straight bred Gert bull calf, to graft on to a Charolais cow that lost a calf. That calf, was one of the best doing calves that I ever had, and started my interest in Brahman influenced cattle.
 

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