8,000 Years Progress = 50 Years Progress

[HerefordSire]

sorta like retaining mineral rights

....and semen rights. Why don't you feed our bull. Although I got your cash, and we split all the semen cash, you have to buy all the winter hay, and pay the ticket when he gets out of the fence. Errrrr...OK...I will do that if you say it is a good deal.
:dunce:

 

[ArmyDoc]

Does anybody here know of any Identical twins, that have had offspring that have both produced equally great offspring either in the pasture or showring. My point is, what proof is there that a Identical twins, or clones will produce exactly alike.

the offspring of the clones will be no more or less likely to be great than the offspring of the original...

Are you asking if you had two identical twins except for sex (I think this could be done...not sure. I thin I read an article where they inserted a duplicate X chromosome to create a genetically identical daughter...) Any how, are you asking if you did have two such clones, and then bread the two together, would their offspring be identical to the parent clones? The answer is no, not unless the parents were homozygous for all genes, which generally they are not.

 

[Frankie]

Does anybody here know of any Identical twins, that have had offspring that have both produced equally great offspring either in the pasture or showring. My point is, what proof is there that a Identical twins, or clones will produce exactly alike.

When you get to the show ring, it's all one person's opinion that day. But the owners of Full Flush are probably the only ones that can give you any sort of answer to that question. They've had the clones working for a few years now. I wonder how their offspring have done in the showring, as compared to the original?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/01/ ... 7223.shtml

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Alacowman stated:" i was given enough knowledge to get up and start walking to where there "is" food avalible. if i die along the way so be it ... what about the east indian with ribs showing bowed down at a cows feet worshiping it"

That is possibly Genetic Diversity gone awry. Excessive concentrated linebreeding is prone to reveal strange genetic results! ...and this is NOT to say that I don't believe in Linebreeding - because I do!

DOC HARRIS

 

[rocket2222]

Does anybody here know of any Identical twins, that have had offspring that have both produced equally great offspring either in the pasture or showring. My point is, what proof is there that a Identical twins, or clones will produce exactly alike.

I used to have a girlfriend that is an identical twin, but she didn't have any children in the pasture or the showring. She had one is a car once. Is that close enough?
:kid:

That sure does sound familiar, depends who the sire was. Those twins didn't happen to come from Texas, and that little kid is now a shortass blond guy with a bad attitude.

 

[rocket2222]

Does anybody here know of any Identical twins, that have had offspring that have both produced equally great offspring either in the pasture or showring. My point is, what proof is there that a Identical twins, or clones will produce exactly alike.

the offspring of the clones will be no more or less likely to be great than the offspring of the original...

That's kind of the answer I'm looking for, but wheres the proof that cloning actualy works like that. Is there a clone [female] out there now who is producing calves that are as good as the cow she was cloned from.

When you get to the show ring, it's all one person's opinion that day. But the owners of Full Flush are probably the only ones that can give you any sort of answer to that question. They've had the clones working for a few years now. I wonder how their offspring have done in the showring, as compared to the original?

Thanks for the link, Interesting story. I will try to find a follow up story to see how they are doing. See if they [the breeders ] have a web site.

 

[HerefordSire]

Does anybody here know of any Identical twins, that have had offspring that have both produced equally great offspring either in the pasture or showring. My point is, what proof is there that a Identical twins, or clones will produce exactly alike.

I used to have a girlfriend that is an identical twin, but she didn't have any children in the pasture or the showring. She had one is a car once. Is that close enough?
:kid:

That sure does sound familiar, depends who the sire was. Those twins didn't happen to come from Texas, and that little kid is now a shortass blond guy with a bad attitude.

I have fraternal twins that used to live in Texas. "...All of my ex-es live in Texas..." Mine are not blond and they are not identical. Whooooo. That was a close one! Now, back to the car.....

 

[Herefords.US]

Does anybody here know of any Identical twins, that have had offspring that have both produced equally great offspring either in the pasture or showring. My point is, what proof is there that a Identical twins, or clones will produce exactly alike.

Back to cattle, the few sets of twins, that were LIKELY identical, that I've seen over the years usually had one of the two calves that was larger than the other - but I always figured that was from environmental forces. Genetically, they should have the same pool of genes to pass on to their progeny, but which ones will get passed on remains chance.

I figure it would be the same for clones. You might breed a 24H clone to 8E, get 100 progeny and never get another bull as good as or better than Online in phenotype.

George

 

[HerefordSire]

Does anybody here know of any Identical twins, that have had offspring that have both produced equally great offspring either in the pasture or showring. My point is, what proof is there that a Identical twins, or clones will produce exactly alike.

Back to cattle, the few sets of twins, that were LIKELY identical, that I've seen over the years usually had one of the two calves that was larger than the other - but I always figured that was from environmental forces. Genetically, they should have the same pool of genes to pass on to their progeny, but which ones will get passed on remains chance.

I figure it would be the same for clones. You might breed a 24H clone to 8E, get 100 progeny and never get another bull as good as or better than Online in phenotype.

George

I wonder if it is possible to clone a bull from semen that we previously purchased without a "clause" such as Star Lake's clause you presented earlier. What say you?

 

[whitecow]

"I wonder if it is possible to clone a bull from semen that we previously purchased without a "clause" such as Star Lake's clause you presented earlier. What say you?"

Unfortunately, it not yet possible to clone from frozen semen. The sperm cells are haploid (only one copy of each chromosome). Non-gamete cells have two copies of each chromosome. It is these diploid cells that are necessary for cloning. There usuaully are diploid somatic cells in semen but they are most often lysed or detroyed during the freezing process and are not useable for cloning purposes.

 

[HerefordSire]

"I wonder if it is possible to clone a bull from semen that we previously purchased without a "clause" such as Star Lake's clause you presented earlier. What say you?"

Unfortunately, it not yet possible to clone from frozen semen. The sperm cells are haploid (only one copy of each chromosome). Non-gamete cells have two copies of each chromosome. It is these diploid cells that are necessary for cloning. There usuaully are diploid somatic cells in semen but they are most often lysed or detroyed during the freezing process and are not useable for cloning purposes.

Very interesting whitecow!

Would live semen work? If might be time to enter the show bull washing business to prep the show bulls for the show ring! :banana:

 

[HerefordSire]

"This invention relates to the generation of animals including but not being limited to genetically selected and/or modified animals, and to cells useful in their generation.

The reconstruction of mammalian embryos by the transfer of a donor nucleus to an enucleated oocyte or one cell zygote allows the production of genetically identical individuals. This has clear advantages for both research (i.e. as biological controls) and also in commercial applications (i.e. multiplication of genetically valuable livestock, uniformity of meat products, animal management)........."



white cow...is this the patent your cloning protocol is based upon?

"A method of reconstituting an animal embryo involves transferring a diploid nucleus into an oocyte which is arrested in the metaphase of the second meiotic division. The oocyte is not activated at the time of transfer, so that the donor nucleus is kept exposed to the recipient cytoplasm for a period of time. The diploid nucleus can be donated by a cell in either the G0 or G1 phase of the cell cycle at the time of transfer. Subsequently, the reconstituted embryo is activated. Correct ploidy is maintained during activation, for example, by incubating the reconstituted embryo in the presence of a microtubule inhibitor such as nocodazole. The reconstituted embryo may then give rise to one or more live animal births. The invention is useful in the production of transgenic animals as well as non-transgenics of high genetic merit."


http://www.uspto.gov/web/patents/patog/ ... oup_80.htm

 

[HerefordSire]

"This invention relates to the generation of animals including but not being limited to genetically selected and/or modified animals, and to cells useful in their generation.

The reconstruction of mammalian embryos by the transfer of a donor nucleus to an enucleated oocyte or one cell zygote allows the production of genetically identical individuals. This has clear advantages for both research (i.e. as biological controls) and also in commercial applications (i.e. multiplication of genetically valuable livestock, uniformity of meat products, animal management)........."



white cow...is this the patent your cloning protocol is based upon?

"A method of reconstituting an animal embryo involves transferring a diploid nucleus into an oocyte which is arrested in the metaphase of the second meiotic division. The oocyte is not activated at the time of transfer, so that the donor nucleus is kept exposed to the recipient cytoplasm for a period of time. The diploid nucleus can be donated by a cell in either the G0 or G1 phase of the cell cycle at the time of transfer. Subsequently, the reconstituted embryo is activated. Correct ploidy is maintained during activation, for example, by incubating the reconstituted embryo in the presence of a microtubule inhibitor such as nocodazole. The reconstituted embryo may then give rise to one or more live animal births. The invention is useful in the production of transgenic animals as well as non-transgenics of high genetic merit."


http://www.uspto.gov/web/patents/patog/ ... oup_80.htm

The patent assignee above is the same that cloned Dolly the sheep:

"Dolly was an ewe (July 5, 1996 – February 14, 2003) that was the first animal to be cloned from an adult somatic cell, using the process of nuclear transfer.[1][2] She was cloned by Ian Wilmut, Keith Campbell and colleagues at the Roslin Institute in Edinburgh, Scotland. She was born on July 5, 1996 and she lived until the age of six.[3]

The cell used as the donor for the cloning of Dolly was taken from a mammary gland, and the production of a healthy clone therefore proved that a cell taken from a specific body part could recreate a whole individual. More specifically, the production of Dolly showed that mature differentiated somatic cells in an adult animal's body could under some circumstances revert back to an undifferentiated pluripotent form and then develop into any part of an animal.[4] As Dolly was cloned from part of a mammary gland, she was named after the famously busty country western singer Dolly Parton.[5]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolly_the_sheep

 

[whitecow]

Yes, that is one of many patents surrounding cloning that are assigned to the "Roslin Institute" portfolio. Those are the prevailing patents for cloning or somatic cell nuclear transfer.

 

[rocket2222]

I figure it would be the same for clones. You might breed a 24H clone to 8E, get 100 progeny and never get another bull as good as or better than Online in phenotype.

George

Those would be my thoughts exactly, no more of a chance breeding a great calf from a clone, than there is from using a full sister, same dna.

 

[whitecow]

There is definitely a difference between clones and full sibs. Full sibs have the same parents but not the same DNA sequence. Clones all have exactly the same DNA sequence as the founder animal. They are just like identical twins or triplets or quadruplets or....

 

[dun]

There is definitely a difference between clones and full sibs. Full sibs have the same parents but not the same DNA sequence. Clones all have exactly the same DNA sequence as the founder animal. They are just like identical twins or triplets or quadruplets or....

The same DNA but it may be expressed differently.

 

[HerefordSire]

Yes, that is one of many patents surrounding cloning that are assigned to the "Roslin Institute" portfolio. Those are the prevailing patents for cloning or somatic cell nuclear transfer.

What technology was used to clone the following animal if the patent of the Rosilin Institute was file in the mid to late 90s?


"......As females, 8020s are very-balanced, structurally-sound replacement heifers and young cows with perfect, sound udders and milk. His daughters and granddaughters are great brood cows in many reputation herds. But it's rare they come up for sale; the Oxley sale no longer offers them. One of the highest selling horned Hereford females in 2000 was an 8020 daughter, bringing $7,000 in Nebraska's Messersmith sale.

"The big thing about 8020 is he sires cows that are very feminine and very productive with good milk and good udders," Schafer says. "People just love the daughters in their cow herds."

Of the many good females around the country, Schafer believes that one of the most notable is K-State's direct 8020 daughter, Miss Mark K 111.

"We feel that she's quite possibly one of the best Hereford cows in the breed," Marple says. And that's one of the main reasons K-State has gone back to 8020.

"When I started doing some number crunching on different things, 8020 was one of the few bulls that sorted himself out on the maternal side," Marple explains. "Our goal and focus is to put 8020 daughters back into this cow herd."

111 is now 11 years old and is one of two cows—the other an Angus—that's been cloned at K-State. She is the dam of KSU Miss Blaze 014 ET, Star Lake's 2002 Denver Champion Horned Heifer........

http://www.open-country.com/oxhmark.html


This is the cloned animal whose birth date was in 1991:

http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i ... 5821272E2D

 

[Frankie]

I figure it would be the same for clones. You might breed a 24H clone to 8E, get 100 progeny and never get another bull as good as or better than Online in phenotype.

George

Those would be my thoughts exactly, no more of a chance breeding a great calf from a clone, than there is from using a full sister, same dna.

Full sibs don't necessarily have the same exact DNA. They are from the same DNA pool, but they may inherit different traits from each parent. Idential twins have the same DNA because they are from the same egg, split.

 

[HerefordSire]

It appears the way to play this cloning technology is with Nasdaq company GERN or Geron much like owning Exxon when oil was causing fuel increases for farmers and ranchers. In other words, a way to nullify the cost (as long as the vehicle increased in price).


"On August 8, 2008, Geron Corporation (the "Company") and Exeter Life Sciences, Inc. ("Exeter") entered into Contribution Agreements whereby the Company and Exeter exchanged their equity interests in Start Licensing, Inc. ("Start") for equity interests in ViaGen, Inc. ("ViaGen"). As a result of the exchange, Start will be a wholly-owned subsidiary of ViaGen.

The merger of Start and ViaGen, combines the full breadth of intellectual property rights to nuclear transfer cloning technology with in-house expertise in advanced reproductive technologies, particularly in cloning, to provide a one-stop licensing and operating company. Ownership of ViaGen immediately following the transaction will be as follows: Exeter - 69%; Geron - 27%; and Smithfield Foods - 4%.

In April 2005, the Company and Exeter established the Start joint venture to manage and license a broad portfolio of intellectual property rights related to animal reproductive technologies. The Company and Exeter owned 49.9% and 50.1% of Start, respectively. In connection with the establishment of Start, the Company granted a worldwide, exclusive, non-transferable license, with the right to sublicense, to its patent rights to nuclear transfer technology for use in animal cloning. These patent rights include patents originally licensed from the Roslin Institute in Edinburgh, Scotland in conjunction with Geron's 1999 acquisition of Roslin BioMed, as well as patents covering technology arising from subsequent animal cloning work that the Company funded at the Roslin Institute. Exeter granted a worldwide, exclusive, non-transferable license, with the right to sublicense, to its patent rights for the use of the Roslin nuclear transfer technology for the production of proteins in milk of animals, as well as rights to other cloning technologies. Both licenses will remain in Start.

Geron has no financial obligations to provide operating capital for Start or ViaGen. The Board of Directors of ViaGen initially shall comprise five members, three of whom (including the Chairman) shall be nominated by Exeter (one a representative from Smithfield Foods) and two of whom shall be nominated by Geron.

The foregoing description does not purport to be complete and is qualified in entirety to the text of the Contribution Agreement, which is filed as Exhibit 10.1 to this Report.

On August 12, 2008, the Company issued a press release announcing the entry into the Contribution Agreement. A copy of the press release is attached as Exhibit 99.1 to this Report. "


http://biz.yahoo.com/e/080812/gern8-k.html