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What technology was used to clone the following animal if the patent of the Rosilin Institute was file in the mid to late 90s?


"......As females, 8020s are very-balanced, structurally-sound replacement heifers and young cows with perfect, sound udders and milk. His daughters and granddaughters are great brood cows in many reputation herds. But it's rare they come up for sale; the Oxley sale no longer offers them. One of the highest selling horned Hereford females in 2000 was an 8020 daughter, bringing $7,000 in Nebraska's Messersmith sale.

"The big thing about 8020 is he sires cows that are very feminine and very productive with good milk and good udders," Schafer says. "People just love the daughters in their cow herds."

Of the many good females around the country, Schafer believes that one of the most notable is K-State's direct 8020 daughter, Miss Mark K 111.

"We feel that she's quite possibly one of the best Hereford cows in the breed," Marple says. And that's one of the main reasons K-State has gone back to 8020.

"When I started doing some number crunching on different things, 8020 was one of the few bulls that sorted himself out on the maternal side," Marple explains. "Our goal and focus is to put 8020 daughters back into this cow herd."

111 is now 11 years old and is one of two cows—the other an Angus—that's been cloned at K-State. She is the dam of KSU Miss Blaze 014 ET, Star Lake's 2002 Denver Champion Horned Heifer........

http://www.open-country.com/oxhmark.html


This is the cloned animal whose birth date was in 1991:

http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i ... 5821272E2D[/quote]

Without looking inot this further, my guess is that this clone was produced by embryo splitting. That technique was utilized in the late 1980's and early 1990's by a number of academic groups and commercially by Granada Genetics. It works just like it sounds...are physically "split" at an early stage to produce multiple "clones" of the initial embryo. As this is done at the embryo stage, it is not a way to produce a clone of a proven adult animal.
 
I certainly could be wrong, but I believe K111 wasn't cloned until she was a number of years old - which would put the actual date of cloning well past that of Dolly the sheep.

If I recall the Deshazer catalog properly, K111 is still alive and being flushed today - not her clone, but the original model - now 17 years old.

George
 
Herefords.US":gw9v1r0o said:
I certainly could be wrong, but I believe K111 wasn't cloned until she was a number of years old - which would put the actual date of cloning well past that of Dolly the sheep.

If I recall the Deshazer catalog properly, K111 is still alive and being flushed today - not her clone, but the original model - now 17 years old.

George

After reading the article a little closer, I am tending to agree with you and that embryos splitting, or a close form, was NOT the technology used to the produce the clone. Amazing the cow is still alive @ 17 years old.
 
Frankie":2s24c6hv said:
Full sibs don't necessarily have the same exact DNA. They are from the same DNA pool, but they may inherit different traits from each parent. Idential twins have the same DNA because they are from the same egg, split.

whitecow
There is definitely a difference between clones and full sibs. Full sibs have the same parents but not the same DNA sequence. Clones all have exactly the same DNA sequence as the founder animal. They are just like identical twins or triplets or quadruplets or....


Late night gibberish :)
I do understand what you'all are saying, I'm not convinced that its really going to help the breeds move forward. Say, for instance the cow Remitall Catalina 24H, who is the dam of Remitall Online, what are the chances of breeding her back to Onlines sire and getting all that DNA from both sire and dam to align again one more time and produce another Online, 50,000 to1, 1,000,000 to 1. The odds of that happening for a clone, no different, twins no different. the odds are probably not a whole lot different for a full sister getting bred to his sire. Then you get back to the question of what is a great cow or bull. As most breeders basic goals are trying to improve their breed of choice, a great bull or cow, must then be defined as one with the ability to move a breed forward, by out breeding themselves, making their next generation better. Should you not then be cloning the son or daughter of the great sire or dam, who by all accounts should in fact be better than their "great" breeding parents. And if their sons and daughters are not better than their parents, why would you want to clone the parents or parent in the first place. To me, the great ones are the ones we tend to forget, their ability to out breed themselves to the point where their offspring outshine them so much we tend to forget the parents role they played in getting them there.
 
Why do I have visions of cowboys with swabs and test tubes walking around the show rings sneaking samples off their favorite cows and bulls?

Wonder how people are going to police the stealing of their animal's DNA? Maybe put the DNA profile on some kind of database for all companies to check?

Why buy the cow when the DNA is free?
 
djinwa":ngjwo7jr said:
Why do I have visions of cowboys with swabs and test tubes walking around the show rings sneaking samples off their favorite cows and bulls?

Wonder how people are going to police the stealing of their animal's DNA? Maybe put the DNA profile on some kind of database for all companies to check?

Why buy the cow when the DNA is free?

It would probably be fairly simple to "steal" DNA from an animal. But if you can't register the offspring or promote him as a clone from a superior bloodline, what good would it do you?
 
HerefordSire":4csukhur said:
"Look at it this way. It's like duplicating Michael Jordan until you have five Michael Jordans on a team," said Donald Brown, who runs the cattle-breeding program at his family's Throckmorton ranch. "Cloning takes breeding to a whole new level."


http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2003- ... ales_x.htm

Why not clone 500 Michael Jordans? Then they are a dime a dozen right? Every team is full of them and there is no demand for them any more. The "whole new level" is no one even caring to watch the game any more.
 
Late night gibberish :)
I do understand what you'all are saying, I'm not convinced that its really going to help the breeds move forward. Say, for instance the cow Remitall Catalina 24H, who is the dam of Remitall Online, what are the chances of breeding her back to Onlines sire and getting all that DNA from both sire and dam to align again one more time and produce another Online, 50,000 to1, 1,000,000 to 1. The odds of that happening for a clone, no different, twins no different. the odds are probably not a whole lot different for a full sister getting bred to his sire. Then you get back to the question of what is a great cow or bull. As most breeders basic goals are trying to improve their breed of choice, a great bull or cow, must then be defined as one with the ability to move a breed forward, by out breeding themselves, making their next generation better. Should you not then be cloning the son or daughter of the great sire or dam, who by all accounts should in fact be better than their "great" breeding parents. And if their sons and daughters are not better than their parents, why would you want to clone the parents or parent in the first place. To me, the great ones are the ones we tend to forget, their ability to out breed themselves to the point where their offspring outshine them so much we tend to forget the parents role they played in getting them there.


RICH MAN's WAY:

Let say your goal was to breed an animal better than Online 122L and stay with the same parents. Let us say you bought Catalina 24H for $45K the other day and she is now in your pasture in Canada. You successfully clone Catalina 24H twenty-five times and you purchase 1,000 staws of Embracer 8E semen so you can flush her and the clones 500 times. You implant the embryos into recipients and wait 9 months and another 205 days inorder to determine the best animal. Surely you can see that the probability of breeding an animal better than Online 122L increases directly related to clone quantity. If you agree this will help the breed move forward, I will write about the poor man's way.

POOR MAN's WAY:
 
HerefordSire":7d2avb8d said:
Let say your goal was to breed an animal better than Online 122L and stay with the same parents. Let us say you bought Catalina 24H for $45K the other day and she is now in your pasture in Canada. You successfully clone Catalina 24H twenty-five times and you purchase 1,000 staws of Embracer 8E semen so you can flush her and the clones 500 times. You implant the embryos into recipients and wait 9 months and another 205 days inorder to determine the best animal. Surely you can see that the probability of breeding an animal better than Online 122L increases directly related to clone quantity. If you agree this will help the breed move forward, I will write about the poor man's way.

POOR MAN's WAY:[/i]

All that would be is a good way to go broke!
Maybe a good idea for the goverment. (they have to spend our money somehow)

But as far as a breeding plan...

There aint much money in cattle, and even less for the stupid!
 
Why not clone 500 Michael Jordans?

It would depend on many variables including resources in which one had access to.

Then they are a dime a dozen right?

The price would more than likly plummet for all animals with identical genes unless the demand increase increased the same amount or more.

Every team is full of them and there is no demand for them any more.

The anticipated value is expected to asccumulate in future generations not in the current generation.

The "whole new level" is no one even caring to watch the game any more.

If we don't clone then there probably will be no one watching and our business will likely cease to exist.
 
redfornow":n94s8y00 said:
HerefordSire":n94s8y00 said:
Let say your goal was to breed an animal better than Online 122L and stay with the same parents. Let us say you bought Catalina 24H for $45K the other day and she is now in your pasture in Canada. You successfully clone Catalina 24H twenty-five times and you purchase 1,000 staws of Embracer 8E semen so you can flush her and the clones 500 times. You implant the embryos into recipients and wait 9 months and another 205 days inorder to determine the best animal. Surely you can see that the probability of breeding an animal better than Online 122L increases directly related to clone quantity. If you agree this will help the breed move forward, I will write about the poor man's way.

POOR MAN's WAY:[/i]

All that would be is a good way to go broke!
Maybe a good idea for the goverment. (they have to spend our money somehow)

But as far as a breeding plan...

There aint much money in cattle, and even less for the stupid!


It usually is capital intensive to create the best in anything we do. If I were advocating "breeding plan", my words would have been different. Want me to start a thread on breeding plans so you can participate? :mrgreen: I have not cloned an animal yet, but I intend to. How about you redfornow? What do you think about cloning?
 
If we don't clone then there probably will be no one watching and our business will likely cease to exist.

You may be right. In my mind the consumers are all of that Wal-Mart shopping mentality. If they can get a hamburger for 30 cents less, to heck with quality. This isn't a special occasion. They just want to eat. There will always be a market for this. To others, just having steak for dinner is a special occasion - no matter the quality. They'd rather spend their nickels on cell phones and SUV fuel.

As you can tell, I am simply opposed to cloning in the first place as a moral issue.
 
You may be right. In my mind the consumers are all of that Wal-Mart shopping mentality. If they can get a hamburger for 30 cents less, to heck with quality. This isn't a special occasion. They just want to eat. There will always be a market for this. To others, just having steak for dinner is a special occasion - no matter the quality. They'd rather spend their nickels on cell phones and SUV fuel.

As you can tell, I am simply opposed to cloning in the first place as a moral issue.


I know what you mean with the Wal-Mart mentality. That is the first stage. The second state occurrs when all the other business in smaller towns can't compete and usually are run out of business. This is when Wal-Mart can increase their prices and or manipulate customers. I have seen it clearly in the last 20 years in my small town.

Why are you opposed to cloning morally?
 
HerefordSire":3bv0xj6r said:
redfornow":3bv0xj6r said:
HerefordSire":3bv0xj6r said:
Let say your goal was to breed an animal better than Online 122L and stay with the same parents. Let us say you bought Catalina 24H for $45K the other day and she is now in your pasture in Canada. You successfully clone Catalina 24H twenty-five times and you purchase 1,000 staws of Embracer 8E semen so you can flush her and the clones 500 times. You implant the embryos into recipients and wait 9 months and another 205 days inorder to determine the best animal. Surely you can see that the probability of breeding an animal better than Online 122L increases directly related to clone quantity. If you agree this will help the breed move forward, I will write about the poor man's way.

POOR MAN's WAY:[/i]

All that would be is a good way to go broke!
Maybe a good idea for the goverment. (they have to spend our money somehow)

But as far as a breeding plan...

There aint much money in cattle, and even less for the stupid!


It usually is capital intensive to create the best in anything we do. If I were advocating "breeding plan", my words would have been different. Want me to start a thread on breeding plans so you can participate? :mrgreen: I have not cloned an animal yet, but I intend to. How about you redfornow? What do you think about cloning?

I dont care if you clone...
The step forward is in the next generation. I am believe in embro transfer.
Its logical and takes you forward at a affordable rate.
Getting me were I need to be on less money!!!

24h is not better than a number of really good purebred cows out there.
Only difference is perceived value. (the fact that you know who she is)
So other than percieved value, what do you gain by cloning?
 
I dont care if you clone...
The step forward is in the next generation. I am believe in embro transfer.
Its logical and takes you forward at a affordable rate.
Getting me were I need to be on less money!!!

24h is not better than a number of really good purebred cows out there.
Only difference is perceived value. (the fact that you know who she is)
So other than percieved value, what do you gain by cloning?

What do we gain by cloning? --> Probability percentage points. These points equate to time which converts to cash. Of course, if you choose a loser animal, then you will part with your time.

If perception is worth that much money, we could make a fortune by purchasing negatively perceived purebreds and parlaying them. :mrgreen:
 
HerefordSire":35h7d6t5 said:
If perception is worth that much money, we could make a fortune by purchasing negatively perceived purebreds and parlaying them. :mrgreen:

Only IF you can change the perceived value by defining the proper use of any said product.
 
Only IF you can change the perceived value by defining the proper use of any said product.

Like the IE animals receiving allot of negative publicity lately. One would think they would at least bring current market price by the pound. We locate the portion of the DNA responsible in the output semen of egg, modify the DNA so the IE is negligible, and multiply progeny and have the progeny tested to verify the absense of IE. Aren't there about 1,500 animals in existance known by AHA?
 
HerefordSire":2vd4ueue said:
Only IF you can change the perceived value by defining the proper use of any said product.

Like the IE animals receiving allot of negative publicity lately. One would think they would at least bring current market price by the pound. We locate the portion of the DNA responsible in the output semen of egg, modify the DNA so the IE is negligible, and multiply progeny and have the progeny tested to verify the absense of IE. Aren't there about 1,500 animals in existance known by AHA?

Perfect example!

But you can also just start with real world animals with a cattleman's eye.
Building a herd that is without a big name, but one that in time would retain one of its own.
The upside to the ideal is that you dont have to buy "high" and sale higher...
You can buy low and sale high. A reputaion for quality will get you a long way in this business.

Two herds that are close to me that have worked hard and have done well without the big name dollars behind em are thomas herefords in richmond ky raised p606 and own part of thm dunrango
and beckley hereford in irvine who bred the ontime bull right on his place.

Both didnt "buy" their place in line they bred it. Go old fashion planning with some sweat mistakes and blood....

Thats my plan, it isnt a short cut. but its a plan.
 

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