Would you use this bull sired by a bull from Frei Angus?

[CattleMan1920]

Here is a bull that I obtained as the result of buying a pair from Stone Gate in 2017. I wanted the Joy Erica cow, and I wanted the Joy Erica heifer that came with her, both for future AI plans. The cow was pregnant, and this bull was the result.

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Here is his dam from Stone Gate

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Here is his sire from Frei Angus/Stone Gate

Crook Mt. Black Cedar 3870

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Here is his a video of him:

http://bit.ly/2w9W7yV

and one more another angle

http://bit.ly/2VPFNTa

Few things to mention about this guy. He has superb feet, probably some of the best I've seen, so does his dam. Frei Angus told me along with Stone Gate that the sire had the best feet they had ever seen, and that was probably why Stone Gate used the sire extensively. Next, when I had him semen tested, and I have mentioned this before, he had swimmers like the vet had never seen, she ranks our bulls high, but this guy totally was off the charts. He was on the same nutrition plan as the others, but over the winter I noticed he had super kinky curls all over his neck region, which in my experience has indicated an above average virility in bulls.

I'm actually thinking about using him on a limited group soon, and would like to hear sincere comments.

Don't be afraid to let it rip, because I didn't breed this bull, he didn't come from either my sires or my dams, my feelings won't be hurt. LOL! I would just like an honest assessment, based strictly upon what you see from the video.

 

[Ky hills]

I would not hesitate to use him, looks good to me.

 

[Backbone Ranch]

He is a really nice bull. Phenotypically, I like him a lot more than his sire too.

 

[Lazy M]

He is a really nice bull. Phenotypically, I like him a lot more than his sire too.

I agree. Looks much better

 

[CattleMan1920]

I appreciate the comments, like I said I didn't breed him, so I can't take credit. I did develop him since a calf.

It's his feet that I want to get into some heifers. I have a daughter out of the Black Cedar 3870 bull and her feet are outstanding. She is a 1/2 sister to this bull.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

He is a really nice bull. Phenotypically, I like him a lot more than his sire too.

Same here, that bull needs to thank mama for her over the top contribution..

 

[CattleMan1920]

He is a really nice bull. Phenotypically, I like him a lot more than his sire too.

Same here, that bull needs to thank mama for her contribution..

Our bull ultimately descended from the Cole Creek 46P bull, which from every angle shows up in this bull. Here is what Cole Creek says about their program, it's probably why the Crook Mt. Black Cedar 3870 sire doesn't inspire. The sire probably never saw grain, our guy did. Oats and all.

Pure Alpha was developed on 10-12 pounds of 14% ration and alfalfa/orchard grass haylage, as you can see he doesn't lack pasture either. I also failed to mention, our bull had a 42cm scrotal on him at 15 months.

"Cole Creek Angus…


BREEDING ANGUS FOR THE GRASSLANDS OF AMERICA
Black cedar 46P- Mature Scrotal 45cm, Mature Wight 2,260 lbs. Proven Breeder of Grassland Angus with oldest daughters 12 years old. The black cedar line of cattle produces 1,100-1,300 lbs range cows with excellent udders, feet, structure and dispositions. They maintain flesh and breed back. They are strong-topped cattle without the broken back sway, hightail heads or posty back legs. Black cedar comes from the Cole Creek herd where for 56 years they have indexed their herd as one unit in an equal rugged dry, grassland environment where cattle have to travel. This gives a whole herd index comparison with meaning and NOT the breakup herd BS marketing ratio indexes. This creates natural selection in proven efficiency with the result of natural culling by mother nature- NO SUPPLEMENTAL FEEDING, NO CREEP FEEDERS, NO IRRIGATED PASTURES, NO WHOLE HERD HIGH-COST INPUTS TO CREATE FALSE DATA, NO BS TRIMMING OF THEIR FEET AND NO EXCESSES. Time proven low input brown grass cows produces great cows. These time proven lines keep showing up if you let Mother Nature make the selection and NOT mother feed truck. Breeding Angus cattle for the grassland rancher who wants to raise replacement females. Old proven. Juanada Lad genetics up front in the pedigree separates us from the gene pool saturation of the Angus breed. We believe a breeder needs to be very honest with all their customers, treat all customers the same, and be totally honest with all their cattle. Treat all their cattle the same NO GAMES! We invite you to our 42nd annual sale to buy semen from our bulls of just visit Cole Creek Angus anytime and remember to lay claim that your cattle can survive in a grassland environment with low inputs you have to raise and prove them in a grassland environment without all the BS high-cost supplement extra feed inputs. TURN THE LIGHT ON!"

 

[ALACOWMAN]

The sire looks like he's lacking the qualities of a grass bull.. depth and gut...

 

[CattleMan1920]

The sire looks like he's lacking the qualities of a grass bull.. depth and gut...

If that was the case then it would have been a huge departure for Stone Gate, who is basically a grass intensive operation.

What do you think of the sire further up the line, Cole Creek Black Cedar 46P and what they said on their website?

Here is some info on him

http://bit.ly/2WhQxZY

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I think yes...he's strong, great top line ..a whole lot more like it..my kind of bull..

 

[ALACOWMAN]

bad picture.of my momma maker..

 

[Hogtiming]

He's ok. I would assume he will need more guts,depth and heart after he gets his work clothes on. Just my observation

 

[Cornfed01]

What to you think of the sire further up the line, Cole Creek Black Cedar 46P and what they said on their website?

Here is some info on him

http://bit.ly/2WhQxZY

Only from what little I've read of your operation here, seems like this bull developed for grass is quite the outlier.

I've wanted to sample him in the past, but went a different direction when I couldn't find semen. Phenotypically, Black Cedar is how I would depict a solid real world Angus bull. I'd like to see what he would do in terms of advancing longevity.

As far as your bull, he's definitely not lacking condition from the feed, which is always pleasing to the eyes. Personally, I'd rather see how he would have handled a more meager upbringing.

 

[CattleMan1920]

What to you think of the sire further up the line, Cole Creek Black Cedar 46P and what they said on their website?

Here is some info on him

http://bit.ly/2WhQxZY

Only from what little I've read of your operation here, seems like this bull developed for grass is quite the outlier.

I've wanted to sample him in the past, but went a different direction when I couldn't find semen. Phenotypically, Black Cedar is how I would depict a solid real world Angus bull. I'd like to see what he would do in terms of advancing longevity.

As far as your bull, he's definitely not lacking condition from the feed, which is always pleasing to the eyes. Personally, I'd rather see how he would have handled a more meager upbringing.

Take a look at the beginning of this thread. The sire of my bull Crook Mt. Black Cedar 3870.

I would say it's a safe bet to say that he received MINIMAL ration at best.

 

[CattleMan1920]

bad picture.of my momma maker..

From what I see I like him, what's the AAA #? If you don't mind.

 

[Cornfed01]

What to you think of the sire further up the line, Cole Creek Black Cedar 46P and what they said on their website?

Here is some info on him

http://bit.ly/2WhQxZY

Only from what little I've read of your operation here, seems like this bull developed for grass is quite the outlier.

I've wanted to sample him in the past, but went a different direction when I couldn't find semen. Phenotypically, Black Cedar is how I would depict a solid real world Angus bull. I'd like to see what he would do in terms of advancing longevity.

As far as your bull, he's definitely not lacking condition from the feed, which is always pleasing to the eyes. Personally, I'd rather see how he would have handled a more meager upbringing.

Take a look at the beginning of this thread. The sire of my bull Crook Mt. Black Cedar 3870.

I would say it's a safe bet to say that he received MINIMAL ration at best.

I read the thread and saw him. I'm not impressed with him in that photo, but I understand the limitations of photographs. Weird angles in a photograph might deceive the eye, however a non supplemented diet won't shrink his natural capacity. I hate to comment more than that without seeing him in person.

We don't supplement much, that and what I've heard is why the genetics of the 46P bull interested me.

I like looking at heavy conditioned cattle. I really like the picture of your bulls dam. My original comment about wanting to see what he would do with less, is just a matter of operation here for what isn't terminal.

 

[bball]

He is a beauty phenotypically. Real powerhouse. My only question, and I may be over analyzing, it didn't appear like he tracked quite right in the video? As in his rear hooves missed falling where the front hooves struck the ground by what appears like a good 12" in the video. Is he just that long? Flexibility issues? Maybe im making a mountain out of a mole hill?

 

[NEFarmwife]

I would not use him, although he looks nice because I need my calves weaning better than 400lbs.

I am not sure I understand why anyone would use a bull with those EPDs. We've discussed before in another thread. But my cattle aren't pets, they are money and while its feed efficiency is great, I need opportunity to make money, not save it. Feed doesn't cost us much around here.

I could see using him to fix a cow with extreme numbers on the other end but I wouldn't want him turned out to pasture.

 

[CattleMan1920]

I would not use him, although he looks nice because I need my calves weaning better than 400lbs.

I am not sure I understand why anyone would use a bull with those EPDs. We've discussed before in another thread. But my cattle aren't pets, they are money and while its feed efficiency is great, I need opportunity to make money, not save it. Feed doesn't cost us much around here.

I could see using him to fix a cow with extreme numbers on the other end but I wouldn't want him turned out to pasture.

He weaned more than 400 at 205.

 

[NEFarmwife]

I would not use him, although he looks nice because I need my calves weaning better than 400lbs.

I am not sure I understand why anyone would use a bull with those EPDs. We've discussed before in another thread. But my cattle aren't pets, they are money and while its feed efficiency is great, I need opportunity to make money, not save it. Feed doesn't cost us much around here.

I could see using him to fix a cow with extreme numbers on the other end but I wouldn't want him turned out to pasture.

He weaned more than 400 at 205.

What did he wean at? And did you pull him at the 205 or grow him with feed till 280 then "wean"?