Why should Hereford Folks have all the fun?

[ollie]

Wow.. Good gaining lad. Post a link to his sale picture or pedigree .

Yes, I'd guess that's a record for the test station. When we started testing our bulls, you could top a test with a 4+ gaining bull. I well remember the first 6 lb. gainer, and now we're moving on past that. I don't have a photo or pedigree, Ollie. As I said, he's sired by VRD, but there's no other pedigree info on the sale report. If his owner consigns him to the sale in March, I'll let you know. His pedigree and total performance info will be in the catalog and it's usually available online. They don't do photos, though.

If you take the best 5%of cattle from each breed then Black Angus would run away with it where quality is concerned. At the bottom 5% there probably isn't any breed any worse. Large gene pool I guess.
Frankie they don't have katelin gates there so you can measure feed conversion individually do they. I think there is starting to be some cattle out gain their feed conversion number. This calf would only have to convert at 6.75 to 1 to do that. Fantastic! I love good cattle.

 

[tapeworm]

Ollie:"If you take the best 5%of cattle from each breed then Black Angus would run away with it where quality is concerned. At the bottom 5% there probably isn't any breed any worse."

You say at the bottom there probably isnt any worse than Angus but what about the bottom of the Herefords?? You got some Hereford breeders on here that worry more with having em LOOK like they did in the 70s than how they perform on feed or on fork....that cant be good for quality can it????? Im not arguing...just wondered your opinion of that


Anyhow give me a pen full of GOOD black baldies in the feedlot and Ill be mucho happy!!!

 

[Campground Cattle]

Tape your right I figure if I am running the Herefords with the old line markings there herefords. I said before if I wanted to run knotty Angus I would go out and write a check and buy a herd. To each his own. If you you manage your cattle and resources properly I hope you are still enjoying what ever breed you enjoy thirty years from now.

 

[mtnman]

Only an idiot would brag about Angus cattle having a 1560 pound YW, and call it unfortunate that his wasn't the one. How damn much growth do we need to put into these supposed "maternal" cattle until they are no longer "maternal"? Those weights sound about as terminal as they get.

mtnman

 

[dun]

Only an idiot would brag about Angus cattle having a 1560 pound YW, and call it unfortunate that his wasn't the one. How damn much growth do we need to put into these supposed "maternal" cattle until they are no longer "maternal"? Those weights sound about as terminal as they get.

mtnman

Nothin wrong with using Angus or any other breed as terminal. They don;t all have to have maternal values to work in some situations.

dun

 

[ollie]

Only an idiot would brag about Angus cattle having a 1560 pound YW, and call it unfortunate that his wasn't the one. How damn much growth do we need to put into these supposed "maternal" cattle until they are no longer "maternal"? Those weights sound about as terminal as they get.

mtnman

Interesting statement minute man. I am sure you realize in the purebred business when you breed this animal to some of the bottom 5% of the breed not all of them will have a 1500 poundyearling weight. Maybe an idiot would think that the majority of the Black Angus bulls are used in dairys or for replacement sires? All the sires of steers are terminal sires. What was the carcas condition of this calf at 10 mos. of age? Would he grade? You guys keep breeding cattle to finish at 18 mos weighing 1150 and soon you won't be able to sell a bull. The reason the black breed are running with the bit between their teeth and everyone else watching is because at the top they are unbeatable.

 

[greenwillowherefords]

Ollie:"If you take the best 5%of cattle from each breed then Black Angus would run away with it where quality is concerned. At the bottom 5% there probably isn't any breed any worse."

You say at the bottom there probably isnt any worse than Angus but what about the bottom of the Herefords?? You got some Hereford breeders on here that worry more with having em LOOK like they did in the 70s than how they perform on feed or on fork....that cant be good for quality can it????? Im not arguing...just wondered your opinion of that


Anyhow give me a pen full of GOOD black baldies in the feedlot and Ill be mucho happy!!!

I agree that the black baldie or the red angus cross red baldie are the top crosses in my book, and many others as well. I rank Angus high on the list of good cattle. It goes without saying what my favorite is.

I remind you of one thing: Before the gutless wonder craze came through, Herefords were sitting where Angus are now as a percentage of the nation's herd. In those years, beef was king, and customer satisfaction with the eating experience of it was far higher than it is now. Yes, there was a need for improvement in some areas, but give me the old line cattle over the gutless wonders any day. Having said that, I think that carcass has to be the most important criteria after the basics of docility, longevity, efficiency, and fertility. Before you think that I am off the deep end, take a look again at "Greenwillow's Bull," or whatever that post was called that stirred up the debate. I would have liked him better with a "mane," though.

 

[Frankie]

Only an idiot would brag about Angus cattle having a 1560 pound YW, and call it unfortunate that his wasn't the one. How damn much growth do we need to put into these supposed "maternal" cattle until they are no longer "maternal"? Those weights sound about as terminal as they get.

mtnman

Angus has a wide range of genetics to work in most any operation. There are several popular Angus bulls that would be considered "terminal" sires. What do you think it would be worth to a feeder to feed a penfull of calves gaining 6 lbs per day, as opposed to 3-4? It may be hard for some people to understand, but Angus are no longer "just" a maternal breed. I'm sure out of the 150+ Angus bulls on this test, you'd be able to find a "maternal" sire, or a "balanced" bull that would work in your program.

 

[mtnman]

I'll guarantee you another idiot at the sale when the 1560 pounder is sold will say he is from maternal lines. Same ol Angus BS, different day. I agree. There is nothing wrong with terminal Angus, but by Gawd, you'll NEVER hear an Angus breeder trying to sell bulls say that a bull would make a good terminal bull. Nope, everyone of them will brag about how maternal they are!

You Angus guys better pull your head out, and look at some data. There isn't an experiment station in the USAS that will back up the claims of how "maternal" Angus are. Breeder hype.

mtnman

 

[1848]

However, I have a real problem with the American Angus Association continuing to promote the production of straightbred Angus to commercial producers

They are trying to salvage the CAB program by preventing the flooding of less desirable black carcasses into the feed lots. It undermines their purpose for CAB. They need 50% terminal cross to increase the percentage of carcasses qualifying for the program.....I think...

Plus they want to sell more bulls for their Association and seedstock breeders

 

[tapeworm]

Tape your right I figure if I am running the Herefords with the old line markings there herefords. I said before if I wanted to run knotty Angus I would go out and write a check and buy a herd. To each his own. If you you manage your cattle and resources properly I hope you are still enjoying what ever breed you enjoy thirty years from now.

More big talk about your big fat checkbook. Who you trying to impress this time????
I still enjoy looking at old tractors and old pickups to...but I'm smart enough to know that theres been a lot of improvements made in 30 years. Anybody that doesnt take advantage of improvemetns made in breeds over 30 years is sucking hind tit. I dont care if you suck hind tit if all it affects is you...but somebody eats your junk to...they just dont come back for more...that affects the rest of us that try to take advantage of carcass improvements. You big shot southern boys need to get with the program and change with the times.....its not all about the oddball dinky little bunches of calves you sell at the sale barn

 

[Frankie]

I'll guarantee you another idiot at the sale when the 1560 pounder is sold will say he is from maternal lines. Same ol Angus BS, different day. I agree. There is nothing wrong with terminal Angus, but by Gawd, you'll NEVER hear an Angus breeder trying to sell bulls say that a bull would make a good terminal bull. Nope, everyone of them will brag about how maternal they are!

You Angus guys better pull your head out, and look at some data. There isn't an experiment station in the USAS that will back up the claims of how "maternal" Angus are. Breeder hype.

mtnman

Gee, I don't recall a post on this board by anyone claiming Angus are strictly a "maternal" breed. If I missed it, please let me know. I have said over and over that there's a lot of diversity in the breed. Whatever you're looking for, there's probably an Angus bull to fill the bill. I don't try to sell my Angus bulls as terminal or maternal. The data is there for a buyer to look at. I have info on my bull's dam, if they're interested. Unlike some people on this board, I have a lot of confidence in the commercial cattleman. I figure they know what they're looking for.

You need to pull your head out of the sand and realize why the Angus breed is kicking dirt in every other breed's face. It's hard work, good cattle, information, and good marketing, among other things. Crying, whining and putting down other breeds won't improve commercial cattlemen's acceptance of your chosen breed.

 

[fellersbarnoneranch]

I have a lot of confidence in the commercial cattleman. I figure they know what they're looking for.

Just wanted to say--that those words go a long way on their own. We can argue bigger butts, guts, and nuts of any color till we're blue in the face (which is sometimes fun and usually pretty entertaining) but what it really comes down to is what fills your freezer and your wallet and I too vote my confidence in the commercial cattleman to know what suits them. (as long as it's RedAngus :lol2: )

 

[mtnman]

You need to pull your head out of the sand and realize why the Angus breed is kicking dirt in every other breed's face. It's hard work(not really), good cattle(whatever), information(BAD information), and good marketing(yep, now you've hit it, hell, they even have amrketing classes for Juniors, so now they are trying to ingrain the juniors about how to sell a piece of crpa bull), among other things. Crying(never did it), whining(or this) and putting down other breeds won't improve commercial cattlemen's acceptance of your chosen breed(Why not, it wokred as part of the marketing ploy fpr Angus).

mtnman

 

[catl]

Tape your right I figure if I am running the Herefords with the old line markings there herefords. I said before if I wanted to run knotty Angus I would go out and write a check and buy a herd. To each his own. If you you manage your cattle and resources properly I hope you are still enjoying what ever breed you enjoy thirty years from now.

More big talk about your big fat checkbook. Who you trying to impress this time????
I still enjoy looking at old tractors and old pickups to...but I'm smart enough to know that theres been a lot of improvements made in 30 years. Anybody that doesnt take advantage of improvemetns made in breeds over 30 years is sucking hind tit. I dont care if you suck hind tit if all it affects is you...but somebody eats your junk to...they just dont come back for more...that affects the rest of us that try to take advantage of carcass improvements. You big shot southern boys need to get with the program and change with the times.....its not all about the oddball dinky little bunches of calves you sell at the sale barn

I ain't no big shot but i'll add my two cents worth.There seems to be more than a few breeders in the mid to northwest states that are also trying to keep their lines going (Herefords).I get the Hereford America mag. although i'm not a hereford breeder (just X commercial). It seems they've got pretty fat wallets from what i've seen.As far as the southern boys getting with the program with our oddball dinky little bunches of calves at my last count we have twice as many cows down here than anyone up north.We must be doing something right. Ya'll have a nice day.

 

[Frankie]

You need to pull your head out of the sand and realize why the Angus breed is kicking dirt in every other breed's face. It's hard work(not really), good cattle(whatever), information(BAD information), and good marketing(yep, now you've hit it, hell, they even have amrketing classes for Juniors, so now they are trying to ingrain the juniors about how to sell a piece of crpa bull), among other things. Crying(never did it), whining(or this) and putting down other breeds won't improve commercial cattlemen's acceptance of your chosen breed(Why not, it wokred as part of the marketing ploy fpr Angus).

mtnman

Most every breed association has a junior program. I hope all of them teach the juniors about marketing because it's an important part of the cattle business.

It's a shame you have such a low opinion of the commercial cattle producer in the US. Perhaps you think they're all like you. I can tell you they aen't.

 

[mtnman]

Nice try at putting words in my mouth Frankie. I never even made any hint that commercial folks are not smart. Nice try at trying to spin that one.

You missed the entire point about the juniors. Those kids are young and impressionable. When they win that contest at the Junior Angus Events, they come away actually believing the BS that is put in front of them to write their sales pitch. That is the point. Trust me, I've been around enough of them to know that, just like any other kid, they believe what their parents tell them, and what they are exposed to. It is so sad, that instead of their parents involving them in some stuctured learning to be able to see what is real and what is not, the parents just shove the marketing crap in front of them.

That is the point, Frankie, did you get it clearly enough now?

Marketing, marketing, marketing, and perception, perception, perception, is why AAA is number one, it has so little to do with the cattle that most people, especially Angus people just don't get it. I've only met a handful of AAA members that understand that, everybody else just wants to spout the same mindless, nonfactual, nontraceable, garbage that you are.
Anybody who has spent any time really looking at real, factual research and trying to understand what goes on in commercial settings will agree with me. Most people that don't agree with me probably have Registered Angus.


mtnman

 

[2centsworth]

UG why penalize the producer for the feeders inability to market the cattle in a timely manner before they became overly fat.? That is a management problem on the feeders part not the genetics of the cattle. How much high bred vigor is available on the cutting edge of high producing cattle?

While you are partially correct, poor yield grades are more the result of poor genetics for muscle than they are poor management. Because YG is calculated using REA, Fat Thickness, HCW and %KPH, a large REA can easily offset more fat. If an animal is sub-par in ribeye size, it doesn't take much fat to destroy the yield grade. For more information, Wes Ishmael did an excellent article in the February issue of beef called "Gone Flabby." You can also access the research of Duane Wulf on http://jas.fass.org/.

 

[Frankie]

Nice try at putting words in my mouth Frankie. I never even made any hint that commercial folks are not smart. Nice try at trying to spin that one.

You are telling this board that commercial cattlemen have made Angus the most popular breed in the US based Angus "marketing ploy". That tells me you don't think the commercial cattlemen can think for themselves. You may not be able to, but I know many who can.

You missed the entire point about the juniors. Those kids are young and impressionable. When they win that contest at the Junior Angus Events, they come away actually believing the BS that is put in front of them to write their sales pitch. That is the point. Trust me, I've been around enough of them to know that, just like any other kid, they believe what their parents tell them, and what they are exposed to. It is so sad, that instead of their parents involving them in some stuctured learning to be able to see what is real and what is not, the parents just shove the marketing be nice in front of them.

That is the point, Frankie, did you get it clearly enough now?

No, I didn't miss the entire point. You're complaining about the Angus junior program, but don't mention the Limi, Simmental, Maine junior programs that also teach how to market their animals. Sure Angus juniors believe what they're told, as do the Limi juniors, etc. There are structured programs for Angus juniors. The association runs carcass contests at various shows. Juniors are rewarded for the quality carcass the animal they've raised and fed hangs.

Marketing, marketing, marketing, and perception, perception, perception, is why AAA is number one, it has so little to do with the cattle that most people, especially Angus people just don't get it. I've only met a handful of AAA members that understand that, everybody else just wants to spout the same mindless, nonfactual, nontraceable, garbage that you are.

Yes, most Angus breeders believe in their cattle or they wouldn't be raising them. It's too bad that you can't impose your will on other people by just preaching to them.

Anybody who has spent any time really looking at real, factual research and trying to understand what goes on in commercial settings will agree with me. Most people that don't agree with me probably have Registered Angus.

Oh, I like research. Please point me to "real, factual" research that tells me Angus cattle, as a breed, won't work for the commercial cattleman. I'm always happy to learn something.

 

[greenwillowherefords]

Tape your right I figure if I am running the Herefords with the old line markings there herefords. I said before if I wanted to run knotty Angus I would go out and write a check and buy a herd. To each his own. If you you manage your cattle and resources properly I hope you are still enjoying what ever breed you enjoy thirty years from now.

More big talk about your big fat checkbook. Who you trying to impress this time????
I still enjoy looking at old tractors and old pickups to...but I'm smart enough to know that theres been a lot of improvements made in 30 years. Anybody that doesnt take advantage of improvemetns made in breeds over 30 years is sucking hind tit. I dont care if you suck hind tit if all it affects is you...but somebody eats your junk to...they just dont come back for more...that affects the rest of us that try to take advantage of carcass improvements. You big shot southern boys need to get with the program and change with the times.....its not all about the oddball dinky little bunches of calves you sell at the sale barn

I ain't no big shot but i'll add my two cents worth.There seems to be more than a few breeders in the mid to northwest states that are also trying to keep their lines going (Herefords).I get the Hereford America mag. although i'm not a hereford breeder (just X commercial). It seems they've got pretty fat wallets from what i've seen.As far as the southern boys getting with the program with our oddball dinky little bunches of calves at my last count we have twice as many cows down here than anyone up north.We must be doing something right. Ya'll have a nice day.

Tape, do you really think that a Hereford can't have traditional markings and still have modern carcass development? I thought you seemed a little more knowledgable than that. Let's just say that the straight Herefords my grandparents butchered in the seventies and eighties tasted a whole lot better than the average junk coming out of the grocery refrigerated section. They also tasted better than the Limi crosses my uncle later came up with. I distinctly remember the difference from one beef to the next.