Why should Hereford Folks have all the fun?

[greenwillowherefords]

The largest ranch in Canada has 7,000 mother cows. They are all either straight Herefords or baldies. I guess they are just too dumb to know what really works :?:

What kind of baldies?

I will find the article and get back to you, but I think it was black baldies. The pictures were of straight Herefords.

 

[CattleAnnie]

I think the ranch that's being referred to is the Douglas Lake Cattle Company. Recently won AQHA's Best Remuda award. And yes, they run about 6,000 head of Hereford and black baldy cows...not counting bulls or yearlings.

See links for more info.

http://www.douglaslake.com/

http://www.aqha.com/association/bestremuda/


Take care.

 

[Frankie]

I think the ranch that's being referred to is the Douglas Lake Cattle Company. Recently won AQHA's Best Remuda award. And yes, they run about 6,000 head of Hereford and black baldy cows...not counting bulls or yearlings.

See links for more info.

http://www.douglaslake.com/

http://www.aqha.com/association/bestremuda/


Take care.

Wow. Interesting read, thanks, CattleAnnie. That's quite an operation.

 

[mtnman]

I'm not an adoring fan of MARC (they've never been especially generous to the Angus breed



There you said it Frankie. You said exactly what EVERY Angus breeder always says about MARC when MARC doesn't publish what THAT Angus breeder THINKS is correct. Angus breeders don't like MARC reports because MARC reports make Angus look less that Angus breeders want their cattlt to be. PERIOD, End of story. Angus guys don't like what MARC says about Angus, so they just disregard it.

MARC CAN'T be generous to the breed when the breed doesn't perform the way the breeders THINK it does. Yes, THINK it does, or THINK it ought to. I say THINK because it is only opinion, and untested theories. When MARC actually TESTED the theories, they found out that Angus are not as good as Angus breeders THINK they are, so now Angus breeders don't like it.

I love this argument. "I'm an Angus breeder, and I don't like MARC reports because as an independent Government Agency, they didn't give my breed favorable marks. What I am really saying is that since I can't convince MARC that Angus are great maternal cows, even after MARC has proven my wrong, I'll just ignore the data, they try to figure out how to tear MARC down."


First they say it is old data, but that is wrong, the Angus were worse for maternal in the old data, and they are still worse. Then they say that they used the wrong bulls, but that is wrong because they still use the industry top bulls. Then they say it's because their environments are less harsh than commercial. I doubt it, it's not like they get to just throw money around feeding cows. Then they say that they got the Angus too fat, judging by the higher BCS of the Angus, but to that I would respond, if fat is bad in Angus, why are they selecting for "fleshing ability"? Wither way you argue it Frankie, Angus are not the "maternal" machines that everybody thinks they are by reading the Angus Journal, and in fact, if you compare the MARC data over time, they are getting worse, not better.

So then they just fall back on the old argument. We are the biggest, therefore we must be the best. I'll reiterate my earlier thoughts. When the commercial man figures out how badly the Angus guys are sticking it to him, he ain't gonna be too happy.


mtnman

 

[Frankie]

I'm not an adoring fan of MARC (they've never been especially generous to the Angus breed



There you said it Frankie. You said exactly what EVERY Angus breeder always says about MARC when MARC doesn't publish what THAT Angus breeder THINKS is correct. Angus breeders don't like MARC reports because MARC reports make Angus look less that Angus breeders want their cattlt to be. PERIOD, End of story. Angus guys don't like what MARC says about Angus, so they just disregard it.

No, I don't disregard it. I posted a link to MARC data. You claim to have MARC data yet have never posted a link. Who's trying to pull the wool over whose eyes here? Not me. I'm willing to look at data from anywhere. I reserve the right to make my own decision about the data.

MARC CAN'T be generous to the breed when the breed doesn't perform the way the breeders THINK it does. Yes, THINK it does, or THINK it ought to. I say THINK because it is only opinion, and untested theories. When MARC actually TESTED the theories, they found out that Angus are not as good as Angus breeders THINK they are, so now Angus breeders don't like it.

You're trying an old vegan trick here, mtnman. You're trying to change the subject. You claimed that MARC data proved Angus cattle sucked. I posted a link that showed it's not true. Now it's your turn to post a link to MARC data showing it is true. Or you can just keep running your mouth and look more and more foolish.

I love this argument. "I'm an Angus breeder, and I don't like MARC reports because as an independent Government Agency, they didn't give my breed favorable marks. What I am really saying is that since I can't convince MARC that Angus are great maternal cows, even after MARC has proven my wrong, I'll just ignore the data, they try to figure out how to tear MARC down."

You're ranting now. That's not my argument. Again, I POSTED A LINK TO MARC DATA. Where's your link?

First they say it is old data, but that is wrong, the Angus were worse for maternal in the old data, and they are still worse. Then they say that they used the wrong bulls, but that is wrong because they still use the industry top bulls. Then they say it's because their environments are less harsh than commercial. I doubt it, it's not like they get to just throw money around feeding cows. Then they say that they got the Angus too fat, judging by the higher BCS of the Angus, but to that I would respond, if fat is bad in Angus, why are they selecting for "fleshing ability"? Wither way you argue it Frankie, Angus are not the "maternal" machines that everybody thinks they are by reading the Angus Journal, and in fact, if you compare the MARC data over time, they are getting worse, not better.

Yawn. Who's "they?" This is an open forum and everyone is welcome to make a fool of themselves any time they want. An argument without facts is not much of an argument.

So then they just fall back on the old argument. We are the biggest, therefore we must be the best. I'll reiterate my earlier thoughts. When the commercial man figures out how badly the Angus guys are sticking it to him, he ain't gonna be too happy.

Yawn, again. Gee, I don't know why I'm having so much trouble staying awake. Maybe if you would come up with some references here to make your case? Your "earlier thoughts" are not backed up by my observations. The number of Angus bull sales in my state has probably doubled in the last few years. The number of Angus bulls being performance tested is probably four times that of other breeds. The average price of Angus bulls continues to go up every year. If your commercial cowman thinks Angus are the magic bullet to make him profitable, he may be disappointed and he may blame Angus breeders. But my commercial cattlemen are paying attention and realizing that a good Angus bull can do wonders for a, shall we say, genetically challenged crossbred herd of cows. And those who know what kind of cows they have and are getting more for their calves know how to use EPDs to pick an Angus bull to continue to improve their herd.

Can we continue to discuss MARC data? I showed you mine; now let's see yours. :lol: And the juniors. You seem to have dropped that topic, too. Can you come up with some reason it's OK for the Limousin, Hereford, Maine associations to teach juniors the strong points of their breed, but not the Angus Association?

 

[TUCO]

dangit !#@%*!! I was just about ready to sell off a bunch of my old cows and buy me some of them black angus cows and now the mountainman has me worried. Just like other people here have asked him, i sure as hell wish he would tell us just what breed of cows he raises and where he raises them. after all the time the mountainman has spent argueing with that Frankie guy, and talking down about angus and earlier about hereford and limosine you'd think he would be real proud to tell us what he raises, wouldn't you ????

com on, mountainman, why wont you tell us? you told somebody a few days ago "why does it matter" .......well i always like to learn what i can from the experts and try to sort of copy them, so PLEASE tell us.

 

[cowspider]

maybe mtnman raises goats and no cattle and thats why he and won't shutup or putup. :?: :?: :?: :lol: :cboy:

 

[Lost Hope Ranch]

dangit !#@%*!! I was just about ready to sell off a bunch of my old cows and buy me some of them black angus cows and now the mountainman has me worried. Just like other people here have asked him, i sure as hell wish he would tell us just what breed of cows he raises and where he raises them. after all the time the mountainman has spent argueing with that Frankie guy, and talking down about angus and earlier about hereford and limosine you'd think he would be real proud to tell us what he raises, wouldn't you ????

com on, mountainman, why wont you tell us? you told somebody a few days ago "why does it matter" .......well i always like to learn what i can from the experts and try to sort of copy them, so PLEASE tell us.

Sounds like mtnman got all his cattle raising experience reading marc data and at the local.coffee shop. The local coffee shop is normally a good place for some to get their experience. Sometimes better than the local bar.

 

[tapeworm]

Wowee!!! I think I was in on this topic a long time ago...now I cant even find where it was!!! Think the safest thiong to do is to step back out of the way!!!LOL

 

[Caustic Burno]

dangit !#@%*!! I was just about ready to sell off a bunch of my old cows and buy me some of them black angus cows and now the mountainman has me worried. Just like other people here have asked him, i sure as hell wish he would tell us just what breed of cows he raises and where he raises them. after all the time the mountainman has spent argueing with that Frankie guy, and talking down about angus and earlier about hereford and limosine you'd think he would be real proud to tell us what he raises, wouldn't you ????

com on, mountainman, why wont you tell us? you told somebody a few days ago "why does it matter" .......well i always like to learn what i can from the experts and try to sort of copy them, so PLEASE tell us.

Sounds like mtnman got all his cattle raising experience reading marc data and at the local.coffee shop. The local coffee shop is normally a good place for some to get their experience. Sometimes better than the local bar.

Looks like a new posse has saddled up.

 

[Jake]

dangit !#@%*!! I was just about ready to sell off a bunch of my old cows and buy me some of them black angus cows and now the mountainman has me worried. Just like other people here have asked him, i sure as hell wish he would tell us just what breed of cows he raises and where he raises them. after all the time the mountainman has spent argueing with that Frankie guy, and talking down about angus and earlier about hereford and limosine you'd think he would be real proud to tell us what he raises, wouldn't you ????

com on, mountainman, why wont you tell us? you told somebody a few days ago "why does it matter" .......well i always like to learn what i can from the experts and try to sort of copy them, so PLEASE tell us.

Sounds like mtnman got all his cattle raising experience reading marc data and at the local.coffee shop. The local coffee shop is normally a good place for some to get their experience. Sometimes better than the local bar.

Looks like a new posse has saddled up.

sure does... might have to call up the sherriff since I'm spose to be riding with him now.... ;-)

 

[WORANCH]

Look at ANY of the MARC data, it will tell you how great your Angus cows work. The only thing less able to raise a calf is Herefords, and Longhorns, and Limmies.

mtnman

now if hereford is less able to raise a calf ..............................

We have had a commercial herd of Herefords since the early 1900's. Never crossed with anything else.

We have herfords with Black nose, black pigment around eyes, in the tail. We have Herefords that are red to the ground, no feather of white, and goggle eyes that are 6-8 inches across.

We have also had lineback, although we got rid of them.

Herefords can come in a wide range of red's, so to just look at one and say Simmental shows how litle one has traveled.

mtnman

tell us why you raise herefords....................

 

[Craig-TX]

Glad you pointed that out. I'd be curious to learn why cows with lineback should be culled.

Craig-TX

 

[Lost Hope Ranch]

There was a poster on here about a year who called himself the "Oregonian". Doesn't he sound vaguely like the "mtnman". Should have been a balloon. Both are full of hot air.

 

[mtnman]

Sometimes Frankie, I really wonder about you.

How many times do I need to say it? The older reports from MARC are not online. You need to call them and get them directly.


I can't post a link because there isn't one.

Craig, WOranch, Tuco, if you re-read the posts on this subject it is very clear in the MARC data why the Herefords are still on our ranch. Our experience bears out the MARC experience.

Craig, I never said Linebacks SHOULD be culled, I said WE culled them.
I suppose you would wonder why they SHOULD be culled since you decided that on your own.


TUCO, make no mistake, I'm certainly no expert. I raise what I want for my market, as should everybody. However, I made up my mind with science, not with what some breed assoication, or breeder tried to sell me.


mtnman

 

[Craig-TX]

Craig, I never said Linebacks SHOULD be culled, I said WE culled them.

OK... Why?

I suppose you would wonder why they SHOULD be culled since you decided that on your own.

How stupid of me.

Craig-TX

 

[mtnman]

Because they weren't as beefy as the others, and their calves ww's were markedly less. I really don't know why, considering they came form the same stock, but that is the way it was.


mtnman

 

[dun]

I made up my mind with science,

mtnman

Problem with science is that it changes fairly frequently. Unless the "science" is done on each individual farm, at best it's just information. It may suggest what to do, but I sure wouldn't put much credence on it till I see that it works here for me.

dun

 

[Frankie]

Sometimes Frankie, I really wonder about you.

How many times do I need to say it? The older reports from MARC are not online. You need to call them and get them directly.
I can't post a link because there isn't one.

Where did you say the information wasn't online? I asked for publication numbers so I could call for the information and I never saw that question answered. I don't wonder about you.

You came into this discussion bashing my breed and calling Angus breeders, that's me, liars and cheats. I won't put up with that.

You claimed most MARC data showed Angus are sorry cows. When challenged to provide that data, you refused.

You claimed to have attended a proceeding where several large cattlemen said they wouldn't have a black bull on the place. When challenged as to the name of these proceedings or the ranches involved, you refused to give out that info.

When I went online and found the most current MARC research, you went on a rant about Angus breeders ignoring MARC data because they didn't like the results. Then you ignore what I posted because you don't like the results!

Personally, I don't care what kind of cattle you raise or if your raise any at all. I do care when someone unfairly bashes my chosen breed and suggests I'm a liar and a cheat.

... I'm certainly no expert. I raise what I want for my market, as should everybody. However, I made up my mind with science, not with what some breed assoication, or breeder tried to sell me.

What :?: You're no expert. :lol: Obviously you made up your mind with old MARC data and are ignoring the newest. How smart is that?