Hereford Holstein cross, why?

[Warren Allison]

I agree that lighter calves bring more per pound, but in my experience adding 100 pounds to weaning weight will still bring more money per calf. The price discount isn't enough to offset the added weight.

Yes, a 600 lb calf at $1.60 brings more than a 450 lb calf at $2. Down here, you just want them to be as big as they can get in 6 months tops. Most people rent pasture at 2 payments a year, so if you have a fall crop and a spring crop, you want to sell at rent time. When we had the Kudzu Corriente herd, they all calved in February and we sold them end of August. Like now. We'd be down there the week before dove season ( opens Saturday), and we'd round them up and haul them to the sale that week. Last year out of 108 Corrientes bred to Ultra Black bulls, the smallest heifer was 438 and the largest steer was around 530 something. 25 years ago when I had those Chi-Holstein and Chi- Brahma cows, their calves would get to over 400 in 4 months. Dunno why we were all in such a hurry to get rid of them... rain and pasture is hardly ever an issue here. While the west and midwest have been in a drought, people down here with a pair to the acre, were having to keep the pastures bush-hogged. Several times. A lot of people are baling again this week, too.

 

[Rmc]

Yes, a 600 lb calf at $1.60 brings more than a 450 lb calf at $2. Down here, you just want them to be as big as they can get in 6 months tops. Most people rent pasture at 2 payments a year, so if you have a fall crop and a spring crop, you want to sell at rent time. When we had the Kudzu Corriente herd, they all calved in February and we sold them end of August. Like now. We'd be down there the week before dove season ( opens Saturday), and we'd round them up and haul them to the sale that week. Last year out of 108 Corrientes bred to Ultra Black bulls, the smallest heifer was 438 and the largest steer was around 530 something. 25 years ago when I had those Chi-Holstein and Chi- Brahma cows, their calves would get to over 400 in 4 months. Dunno why we were all in such a hurry to get rid of them... rain and pasture is hardly ever an issue here. While the west and midwest have been in a drought, people down here with a pair to the acre, were having to keep the pastures bush-hogged. Several times. A lot of people are baling again this week, too.

But highest price per calf doesn't always mean the most profit.
The last few years we have found it more profitable to sell calves at under 500lbs . Cows go into winter in better condition, maintain condition better with less inputs. Ect.
Especially in the drought it isn't worth it for us to hold for higher weight then sell when everyone else is selling.

 

[Stocker Steve]

But highest price per calf doesn't always mean the most profit.
The last few years we have found it more profitable to sell calves at under 500lbs . Cows go into winter in better condition, maintain condition better with less inputs. Ect.
Especially in the drought it isn't worth it for us to hold for higher weight then sell when everyone else is selling.

The ideal will vary year to year - - but i agree that selling based only on calf $ will not maximize profit.

Do you usually include cow condition or pasture condition or feed cost in your selling decision?

 

[tburkepa]

I got this I'm guessing Hereford/Holstein cross cow a few years ago from a guy that owed me money. This is her last year on the farm as her udder is getting worse and worse each year. It doesn't look as bad now as it did when she freshened, but only 2 teats are working. Calf didn't do horrible this year, but with hay being scarce and needing to cull some cows, she's on the hit list. Pics are from now and in spring when she freshened. Calf and her leg are hiding how ugly her bag really was...

 

[Son of Butch]

Beef cow udder criticism usually is cosmetic and from a human point of view.
Proof is in the pudding and that's the pounds of calf she weans.

p.s
not saying she doesn't deserved to be culled.

 

[tburkepa]

Beef cow udder criticism usually is cosmetic and from a human point of view.
Proof is in the pudding and that's the pounds of calf she weans.

p.s
not saying she doesn't deserved to be culled.

This is true, but I also don't really like the calves that she throws. They always look dairy and have ears like a Brahma. The good thing is that she always throws a calf!!

 

[Travlr]

This is true, but I also don't really like the calves that she throws. They always look dairy and have ears like a Brahma. The good thing is that she always throws a calf!!

What does the bull look like? Pics?

 

[tburkepa]

Here are the last 2 bulls she's been bred to. Pure Hereford and Pure Braunvieh. Her first calf when I got her was Holstein bull and the next one was pure black Angus. All looked like they had Brahma ear....

 

[Peace]

1) Thanks for all the replies...makes me keep thinking.

So I wonder if the mothering thing from a Hereford is a bonus with these cattle. While Holsteins are not really allowed to be a mother any more, the mothering ability of Herefords is kind of legendary. The other thing that some touched on is the beefiness of Herefords and how it adds some depth of body to the cross. That along with the fat that Herefords tend to have on their carcass might be an added bonus, when looking at a beef/dairy cross. As a kid, and yes it was a long time ago, we ate a lot of Holstein for beef. As a dairy, it made no sense to raise a beef steer when we had a cow that went down or didn't breed or whatever other reason that we could pick off and butcher as opposed to sending her to Johnson Creek and making nothing... it's how it was. I do remember those steaks being very good and the hamburger was awesome, I think those dairy cattle actually marbled just fine and were not tough as most claimed.

Now, all of this gets me to thinking...if I had the Hol/Her cross and added in Waygu as a cross, would that give me a cow that raised a calf with some really nice marbling and flavor? Would the cow have the ability to put some pounds on that calf in the first 7 months or so that it wouldn't cost me much to get them to butcher weight? Is the more recent trends of Holstein to fix the "saggy udder" issues going to help me out with the udder of my cows to not be dragging a bag at 6 or 7? Am I way over thinking this? I really want something I can market to a smaller niche market that will pay up, but not crush my cash by trying to buy and sell straight Waygu? or replacing my base cow herd every couple years? Am I wasting my time???? Help me out and call out all the things that I'm missing and am way off base on. Those old dudes were for sure smarter than I am in their own way, so I'm sure Mr Weiss knew what he was doing....now what I can I do to take it up a level?

 

[Hpacres440p]

1) Thanks for all the replies...makes me keep thinking.

So I wonder if the mothering thing from a Hereford is a bonus with these cattle. While Holsteins are not really allowed to be a mother any more, the mothering ability of Herefords is kind of legendary. The other thing that some touched on is the beefiness of Herefords and how it adds some depth of body to the cross. That along with the fat that Herefords tend to have on their carcass might be an added bonus, when looking at a beef/dairy cross. As a kid, and yes it was a long time ago, we ate a lot of Holstein for beef. As a dairy, it made no sense to raise a beef steer when we had a cow that went down or didn't breed or whatever other reason that we could pick off and butcher as opposed to sending her to Johnson Creek and making nothing... it's how it was. I do remember those steaks being very good and the hamburger was awesome, I think those dairy cattle actually marbled just fine and were not tough as most claimed.

Now, all of this gets me to thinking...if I had the Hol/Her cross and added in Waygu as a cross, would that give me a cow that raised a calf with some really nice marbling and flavor? Would the cow have the ability to put some pounds on that calf in the first 7 months or so that it wouldn't cost me much to get them to butcher weight? Is the more recent trends of Holstein to fix the "saggy udder" issues going to help me out with the udder of my cows to not be dragging a bag at 6 or 7? Am I way over thinking this? I really want something I can market to a smaller niche market that will pay up, but not crush my cash by trying to buy and sell straight Waygu? or replacing my base cow herd every couple years? Am I wasting my time???? Help me out and call out all the things that I'm missing and am way off base on. Those old dudes were for sure smarter than I am in their own way, so I'm sure Mr Weiss knew what he was doing....now what I can I do to take it up a level?

I would question the Wagyu part. They would reduce the beefiness, and increase time to finishing, in my opinion, even with the potential for better marbling.

 

[Ebenezer]

Here are the last 2 bulls she's been bred to. Pure Hereford and Pure Braunvieh. Her first calf when I got her was Holstein bull and the next one was pure black Angus. All looked like they had Brahma ear....

I think the two pictures help me see two of the problems.

 

[rocfarm]

Simple. Hereford × Holstein guarantees a black baldy calf. Sell it at 6 months of age and few buyers can tell the difference versus Hereford/Angus baldy. By 10 months though, the dairy characteristics start coming through. Sold them like that through 80s and 90s when family still had Holsteins kicking around.

I think that worked on me. I bought one at auction that is probably an angus/Holstein, but thought it was a black baldie. But she raises a good calf, so who cares? 3/4 angus calves are almost indistinguishable from full bloods anyway. And the momma eats out of my hand. So a win in my book.

 

[rocfarm]

Holstein/Hereford crosses won't be easily mistaken for Angus/Hereford by anyone that's seen more than a couple. The Holstein crosses almost always have a lot of white on them, including the front legs and tail switch. They bring slightly more than straight Holsteins at auction.

We'll, it worked on me. But I like the momma and would do it again.

 

[rocfarm]

In October of 1986 I attended a local graded feeder calf sale where a neighbor who milked a small herd of Holsteins was selling his heifer calves. They were out of his country Holsteins and by a rugged looking Hereford clean up bull. They weighed around 750 pounds right off the cow.
I purchased a pen of 8 of these and brought them home and turned them out with an Angus bull the next spring. The descendants of the two best of these females make up my herd today. I have bred to a lot of different breeds over the years, and the cows produced have been good ones. I really can't say I have improved them any over that original cross. They were thick well marked BWF that were fertile and bred back on time while giving lots of milk. Their udders held up well and I usually sold them for a premium at 9 or 10 years old.
I liked red cattle and some of the best replacements came by a Red Poll bull. My worst mistake was breeding them in 1992 to a roan Shorthorn. Nice calves but a real dock at the stockyards. I still get an occasional roan. This year I had a blue roan steer calf by a Sim-Angus bull that was an outstanding calf but he did not bring the price I thought he should.

Was surprised that I have no real choice but terminal angus calves. I like red myself, but docked all day long if you go that rout.

 

[Warren Allison]

Friends in Conn years ago had Chi oxen... pulling machines and they were over 6 ft at the shoulder. Stubborn dispositions. A Chi-Holstein cross is a great one, gets a more tractable disposition it seems and they can pull. The cows do have tighter udders than many other holstein crosses... very protective but not "mean" cows.

yep. These cows looked like giant Holsteins, and their udders were not like a dairy cow udder. More like a heavy milking beef breed. like the udders the original red & white Simmentals used to have. Ben & Jerry, the team the dude had when I first met him, stood as tall as his Belgian team, 18+ hands. They looked identical but one was Chi bull x Hol cow, and the other was Hols bull x Chi cow. They both were virtually pets, as gentle as any cattle I have ever seen. They were less trouble to shoe than some of his draft horses. He could out a whole herd of grandkids on their backs, and lead them around. But, I suspect that disposition came from being hand-raised and handled several times a week, as much as the breeds they were.

 

[tburkepa]

I think the two pictures help me see two of the problems.

The two pics of the bulls? Wondering how they will have any affect on the calves that were born before these 2 bulls arrived? On current calf I could see the Braunvieh being an issue, but tough to blame him on calf from 4 years ago when he's only a little over 3 years old.

 

[Rafter S]

Back about 50 years ago Grimes county had so many dairies (and beekeepers) it was called "The Land of Milk and Honey". Now there's just one dairy left; an all Jersey dairy about 1-1/2 miles from my house (there are still plenty of bees).

I raised quite a few Holtstein cross bottle calves when I was younger. The Brahman x Holtstein cows raised a tremendous calf. I was using Simmental bulls back then, and those calves would really mash on the scale.

Apparently I was wrong. I ran across this story earlier this morning. https://www.kbtx.com/2022/09/07/last-dairyman-grimes-county-closes-barn-doors/