Why Hereford Sires Will Dominate

[3waycross]

I can easily tell you what I don't like. His lack of depth,spring of rib,legs like a girafe,lack of guts and possibly nuts, or his pencil A$$. Or maybe like the rest of us you are overly impressed with the fact that he is a first cousin to the BIL of a son of a gr grandaughter of a bull who once passed by a pasture where the Australian mother of a cousin of one of Herefordsires never seen cows was being bred by a tasmanian hereford goat?

3waycross....I think this post deserves special attention because it was hillarious. I don't think there is anything wrong with humor as long as someone is not offended. Thanks for making me laugh. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Well for the record I am not out to offend you but at some point you gotta step up to the plate. Ya know what I mean Vern. :cowboy:

 

[grannysoo]

Well for the record I am not out to offend you but at some point you gotta step up to the plate. Ya know what I mean Vern. :cowboy:

Come on 3waycross, let's just kick him around some more.... :mrgreen:

 

[HerefordSire]

Jim, I should point out that I don't think that picture of the "Ben" bull, whose link I posted, is a particularly flattering one. I've seen the bull in person numerous times and I am basing my recommendation on seeing him in person, his calves, his dam, and the EPDs he's developed....not the EPDs that he started out with.

He's a bull with tremendous extra capacity, who surprisingly has also proven to be a calving ease sire. His first daughters are proving to be good mothers, which completes his worth as a proven sire for me.

George

Hi George! I do not care for the looks of him as a whole but he does look like he could make some money for folks. Very impressive set of numbers.

 

[HerefordSire]

Don't let this bull fool you. He is at a skewed angle so the length can be a misperception. Also, he may not look like he has much capacity because of the aspect ratio. This bull is strong.

 

[HerefordSire]

What do you like best about him? Here's what I like, length, topline,shoulders,color,pigmentation.

I can easily tell you what I don't like. His lack of depth,spring of rib,legs like a girafe,lack of guts and possibly nuts, or his pencil A$$. Or maybe like the rest of us you are overly impressed with the fact that he is a first cousin

I really don't care who his cousin is or any of his other relatives. As he is now, I like everything that you have mentioned. A good feed program would take care of the guts, butts, and nuts.

Number crunching is fine and good, but I would not ever buy a cow sight unseen, based upon the numbers. To me, this is just a good looking bull. Good points and bad. Nothing more, nothing less.

Hi grannysoo! Do you think if feeding the heck out of thie bull to complete his gut and butt, the market steers would bring more?

 

[BeefmasterB]

Well, there you have it, no guts, no butt, and no nutts. That butt reminded me of looking at some of my angus. :lol2:

Maybe, but your Angus will sell anyway!! :cboy:

 

[HerefordSire]

That's a good looking bull my friend....

His calves theoretically should generate almost a double in Austrailia when measuring gross revenue against the Austrailian bull average calves.

SELECTION INDEX VALUES

Market Target.....Index Value.....Breed Average
Supermarket.........+$97............+$ 57
Grass Fed Steer......+$92............+$ 51
Grain Fed Steer......+$102...........+$ 56
EU..................... +$117...........+$ 65

I didn't mentioned this previously becasue I wanted to get allot of the negativity out of the way. The Austrailian profit indices are shown above for this bull and the average of all Herefords in Austrailia. This bull is in the top one percent in all four indices. What this tells me, is many of us are not really after profit. We want the ones that look good in our environment, not the ones that make the most money.

 

[alacattleman]

What do you like best about him? Here's what I like, length, topline,shoulders,color,pigmentation.

I can easily tell you what I don't like. His lack of depth,spring of rib,legs like a girafe,lack of guts and possibly nuts, or his pencil A$$. Or maybe like the rest of us you are overly impressed with the fact that he is a first cousin

I really don't care who his cousin is or any of his other relatives. As he is now, I like everything that you have mentioned. A good feed program would take care of the guts, butts, and nuts.

Number crunching is fine and good, but I would not ever buy a cow sight unseen, based upon the numbers. To me, this is just a good looking bull. Good points and bad. Nothing more, nothing less.

Hi grannysoo! Do you think if feeding the heck out of thie bull to complete his gut and butt, the market steers would bring more?

cant complete what aint there. funny thing about those darn genetics they seem too pass em too the next generation

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

That bull sure is belly deep in grass ain't he.

 

[SRBeef]

That bull sure is belly deep in grass ain't he.

Found myself thinking the same thing.

 

[Watertondifter]

There are now more poor Angus on planet than in any other time in history....Time for a Hereford bull again. It will happen....lol :clap:

 

[Tod Dague]

Well, there you have it, no guts, no butt, and no nutts. That butt reminded me of looking at some of my angus. :lol2:

Hi RD-Sam! The scrotum size appears to be sufficient and is inline with his genetic pedigree representing fertility. I cannot view his rump clearly from the photo. This is the third post I am replying to regarding the lack of capacity which could represent he has a high metabolism rate. Therefore, if he had a rump and he had a gut while keeping his extreme length, would his market steers bring more money or less?

I'm not RD but there is nothing extreme about his length. Added capacity would help his dtrs that have to digest low quality forages as long as there is plenty of volume, if both quality and volume are lacking the all of the guts in the world aren't going to help them. If he is strictly a terminal bull the it doesn't really matter, and since you keep asking about the value of the steers I assume that your take on the bull is he is a terminal sire. More rump (more muscle expression) will cause his steers to be worth more as you will have fewer muscle score 2 calves. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Tod Dague]

Money talks. Visuals sometimes walk..

Supermarket Index ($) - Estimates the genetic differences between animals in net profitability per cow joined for an example commercial herd targeting the domestic supermarket trade. Steers are either finished on grass or grain (eg 50-70 days). Steers are assumed marketed at 450 kg live weight (250k g HSCW and 12 mm P8 fat depth) at 17 months of age. Daughters are retained for breeding. In response to industry feedback regarding eating quality and tenderness, a small premium has been placed on marbling.

Grass Fed Steer Index ($) - Estimates the genetic differences between animals in net profitability per cow joined for an example commercial herd targeting pasture finished steers. Steers are assumed marketed at 600 kg live weight (330 kg HSCW and 8 mm P8 fat depth) at 23 months of age. Daughters are retained for breeding. In response to industry feedback regarding eating quality and tenderness, a small premium has been placed on marbling.

Grain Fed Steer Index ($) - Estimates the genetic differences between animals in net profitability per cow joined for an example commercial herd targeting pasture grown steers with a 125 day feedlot finishing period for the grain fed markets. Steers are assumed marketed at 600 kg live weight (330 kg HSCW and 20 mm P8 fat) at 20 months of age. Daughters are retained for breeding. There is a significant premium if steers reach a marble score of 2 or greater.

EU Index ($) - Estimates the genetic differences between animals in net profitability per cow joined for an example commercial herd targeting pasture finished steers for the EU market. Steers are assumed marketed at 620 kg live weight (340 kg HSCW and 14 mm P8 fat depth) at 24 months of age. Daughters are retained for breeding. There is no marbling requirement.

You can have the best EPDs/indexes in the world but if the animal doesn't fit your environment the all of those numbers are worthless. I think where your getting some of your contention from is from those of us that like to keep replacements but you seem to be showcasing a terminal bull where were a functional phenotype isn't as critical.
If you had come out in the beginning saying that you tended to use him as a terminal sire or to produce terminal sire you wouldn't have received as much contention.

 

[HerefordSire]

That bull sure is belly deep in grass ain't he.

I realize I am not providing all the important information about this bull, his pedigree, the way he has been managed, and the environment he was raised in, etc. etc. It is easier for me to present a point by showing contrasting stategies to generate a profit. On one hand, a famous breeder in the US advocates breeding very short framed cattle for various reasons. Likewise, posters here seem to want high capacity cattle with large rumps that look good in their environment. All this theoretical talk is fine and dandy. Sooner or later, profits or losses have to be realized. The bull I presented here has high profit indices in Austrailia and received an enourmous amount of negativity through posts here. Does this mean the posters here don't know how to make profit? Does it mean that profit indices are only numbers and they should be ignored?

 

[Aero]

The majority of the market doesn't want Hereford cows and Angus Bulls.

if you think it makes more sense to have black cows and hereford sires, you have missed a key point: black cows graze less than lighter colored cows.

 

[HerefordSire]

There are now more poor Angus on planet than in any other time in history....Time for a Hereford bull again. It will happen....lol :clap:

Angus cows are obviously the best cows there are. In the US driving most anywhere, looking out of the vehicle window anyone can see that almost every pasture with cattle has black cattle. If crossing cattle is a way to generate profit through heterosis, than I would guess an Angus bull will likely be in low demand in the next decade. Therefore, which breed is going to breed the majority of all these Angus cows? There may always be a large demand for an Angus bull to support the quantity of Angus purebred breeders. But, another breed's bulls have to serve this market. Which one is it going to be?

 

[KNERSIE]

The majority of the market doesn't want Hereford cows and Angus Bulls.

if you think it makes more sense to have black cows and hereford sires, you have missed a key point: black cows graze less than lighter colored cows.

hmmm... not so sure that is fact, but I do know that herefordsire(s) seems to crap more often.

 

[Aero]

Don't let this bull fool you. He is at a skewed angle so the length can be a misperception. Also, he may not look like he has much capacity because of the aspect ratio. This bull is strong.

there is nothing wrong with that picture... he is exactly what he looks like in the picture.

 

[Aero]

What this tells me, is many of us are not really after profit. We want the ones that look good in our environment, not the ones that make the most money.[/i]

the only things having big numbers like that tells me are: 1) not enough proof on his numbers, and 2) his teachers taught him for the test without considering convenience traits or conformation.

 

[Aero]

The majority of the market doesn't want Hereford cows and Angus Bulls.

if you think it makes more sense to have black cows and hereford sires, you have missed a key point: black cows graze less than lighter colored cows.

hmmm... not so sure that is fact, but I do know that herefordsire(s) seems to crap more often.

i forgot to mention that this would be dependent on environment. i was talking about my environment (super humid and hot summers on fescue) which anyone can see when every Angus is in the pond and the Aubracs are still grazing on top of the hill and happy about it.