Why Hereford Sires Will Dominate

[HerefordSire]

I'm not RD but there is nothing extreme about his length. Added capacity would help his dtrs that have to digest low quality forages as long as there is plenty of volume, if both quality and volume are lacking the all of the guts in the world aren't going to help them. If he is strictly a terminal bull the it doesn't really matter, and since you keep asking about the value of the steers I assume that your take on the bull is he is a terminal sire. More rump (more muscle expression) will cause his steers to be worth more as you will have fewer muscle score 2 calves. Just my 2 cents.

Fair enough. Based upon my little experience, this bull is very long (optical illusion makes him appear shorter than he really is) and if you can find a Hereford bull longer, please post information. Part of the issue about length is there is no EPD for length. Why not?

I have the minority opinion that long cattle generate more profit, all other things being equal, whether they are replacements or market calves. Usually, long cattle have less depth and less butt.

I was wanting for the majority of posters to agree that capacity has nothing to do with terminal profit. One savvy poster mentioned retaining replacements, and I replied, but no further comment has been made. Before I go further into replacements, I would rather pin the naysayers against the wall. As you can see, they naysayers make a simple comment about capacity or gut or butt, then they vanish and don't answer simple questions. It is easier to ignore a question than it is to learn.

 

[HerefordSire]

You can have the best EPDs/indexes in the world but if the animal doesn't fit your environment the all of those numbers are worthless. I think where your getting some of your contention from is from those of us that like to keep replacements but you seem to be showcasing a terminal bull where were a functional phenotype isn't as critical.

If you had come out in the beginning saying that you tended to use him as a terminal sire or to produce terminal sire you wouldn't have received as much contention.

I don't have enough information about the environment in Austrailia. Yet, the profit indices for Austrailia are based upon most all Hereford cattle in Austrailia and includes most every environment in Austrailia. The dollar profit indices take into consideration the economic markets and EPD numbers into another set of numbers. So the numbers are not worthless for an Austrailian breeder because the number includes environment.

I have yet to get serious about keeping replacements yet. I do have plenty of ammo though. For now, allow me to pin the terminal side objections against the wall.

In regards to my purposes and objections, I have no intention of using the bull, for terminal or replacement purposes. He, or any bull for that matter, should be valued based upon profit. Since noone is expected to offer actual profit data, about all we can discuss is theoretical value of his market steers and replacements.

 

[RD-Sam]

How many do you want to see that are longer?

http://www.accelgen.com/htm/sire_pages/014HP01007.html

http://www.accelgen.com/htm/sire_pages/014HP01009.html

 

[3waycross]

How many do you want to see that are longer?

http://www.accelgen.com/htm/sire_pages/014HP01007.html

http://www.accelgen.com/htm/sire_pages/014HP01009.html

and deeper, and have more butt?

 

[HerefordSire]

The majority of the market doesn't want Hereford cows and Angus Bulls.

if you think it makes more sense to have black cows and hereford sires, you have missed a key point: black cows graze less than lighter colored cows.

Interesting comment...without disagreeing with you....

Wouldn't a purebred Angus cow and a purebred Hereford bull cross make 75% black grazing cattle that have the advantage of heterosis so that the heterosis more than compensates the 25% that are not black and the 1 bull that is not black in regards to grazing quantity, if the black cattle grazing efficiency was verified?

 

[HerefordSire]

How many do you want to see that are longer?

http://www.accelgen.com/htm/sire_pages/014HP01007.html

http://www.accelgen.com/htm/sire_pages/014HP01009.html

 

[HerefordSire]

How many do you want to see that are longer?

Either prove only one, or provide photos of Hereford bulls with similar lengths.

 

[rocket2222]

Maybe this will help :)

 

[HerefordSire]

Maybe this will help :)

Now we are talking. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Predicted response: Not enough guts and butt. He has a pencil butt. He would not make good replacements. He is too hard doing. The environment to compatibility makes or breaks my farm. I WANT IT NOW! Show me pictures of your cattle! AHHHHNT!

:santa: :santa: :santa:

 

[3waycross]

Maybe this will help :)

Now that's funny, I don't care who you are :shock:

GEEEETER DONE :lol2:

 

[HerefordSire]

Maybe this will help :)

Now that's funny, I don't care who you are :shock:

GEEEETER DONE :lol2:

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Sausage shapes are worth more than bowling ball shapes when considering bull purchases because BW and WW are highly correlated. This is likely the reason the bull is #1 in all four profit indices in Austrailia....because heavy calves live more often than not.

 

[RD-Sam]

How many do you want to see that are longer?

Either prove only one, or provide photos of Hereford bulls with similar lengths.

HS, can't you see those two I posted are better than the one you posted?

 

[RD-Sam]

Maybe this will help :)

Watch out, he'll build a website and use that pic. :lol2:

 

[HerefordSire]

How many do you want to see that are longer?

Either prove only one, or provide photos of Hereford bulls with similar lengths.

HS, can't you see those two I posted are better than the one you posted?

World Class looks like the longest. All are related to 517. Two share the same sire. Length is inherited. Length is related to profitability. I woulldn't say either of the two is better.

 

[RD-Sam]

You need some lessons on what to look for. Maybe if yo talk real nice to Knersie he will mark up the problems with the bull, put markers where the problems are, then give an example of what a correct specimen looks like.

That bull would look like a John Madden play board on game day. :lol2:

 

[BC]

I have followed this thread for days and decided to throw in my 2 cents worth. The bull that HS posted the picture should sire calves that will excel in red meat yield and cutability. These are things that packers desire. Unfortunately, the heifer mates to those type steers are not the deep sided, easy fleshing females that cow-calf producers want.

No one breed excels in the 3 M's - maternal, muscling and marbling. As cow calf producers, we either have to buy the type females we like or raise some that are a hopefully happy compromise between what the easy fleshing, deep sided maternal line and the high cutability, carcass line.

 

[HerefordSire]

I have followed this thread for days and decided to throw in my 2 cents worth. The bull that HS posted the picture should sire calves that will excel in red meat yield and cutability. These are things that packers desire. Unfortunately, the heifer mates to those type steers are not the deep sided, easy fleshing females that cow-calf producers want.

No one breed excels in the 3 M's - maternal, muscling and marbling. As cow calf producers, we either have to buy the type females we like or raise some that are a hopefully happy compromise between what the easy fleshing, deep sided maternal line and the high cutability, carcass line.

Hi there BC!

I think we can agree the bull I posted can be "pinned" for his capability to terminally sire profitable calves in Austrailia. Now then, I think we can cautiously move on to using the same Hereford sire breeding females to retain heifers. The market target now moves to cow-calf producers.

You mentioned cow-calf producers want deep sided easy fleshing qualities. Of course you would also agree that longevity, fertility, and other similar characteristics have higher priorities of the same cow-calf producers and thereby not mentioned previously. So before considering fleshing and deep sidedness, we can surely agree these very important traits are already present.

Agree?

 

[rocket2222]

I have followed this thread for days and decided to throw in my 2 cents worth. The bull that HS posted the picture should sire calves that will excel in red meat yield and cutability. These are things that packers desire. Unfortunately, the heifer mates to those type steers are not the deep sided, easy fleshing females that cow-calf producers want.

No one breed excels in the 3 M's - maternal, muscling and marbling. As cow calf producers, we either have to buy the type females we like or raise some that are a hopefully happy compromise between what the easy fleshing, deep sided maternal line and the high cutability, carcass line.

Don't agree with him, you'll only make things worst, now you've really got him started. :lol:

 

[HerefordSire]

I have followed this thread for days and decided to throw in my 2 cents worth. The bull that HS posted the picture should sire calves that will excel in red meat yield and cutability. These are things that packers desire. Unfortunately, the heifer mates to those type steers are not the deep sided, easy fleshing females that cow-calf producers want.

No one breed excels in the 3 M's - maternal, muscling and marbling. As cow calf producers, we either have to buy the type females we like or raise some that are a hopefully happy compromise between what the easy fleshing, deep sided maternal line and the high cutability, carcass line.

Don't agree with him, you'll only make things worst, now you've really got him started. :lol:

An open or a dead calf\heifer affects longevity and fertility of the dead calf\heifer. I was making a point that bull length related to heifer retention is much more important than deep sidedness and easy fleshing. Agree?

 

[Herefords.US]

I have followed this thread for days and decided to throw in my 2 cents worth. The bull that HS posted the picture should sire calves that will excel in red meat yield and cutability. These are things that packers desire. Unfortunately, the heifer mates to those type steers are not the deep sided, easy fleshing females that cow-calf producers want.

No one breed excels in the 3 M's - maternal, muscling and marbling. As cow calf producers, we either have to buy the type females we like or raise some that are a hopefully happy compromise between what the easy fleshing, deep sided maternal line and the high cutability, carcass line.

Don't agree with him, you'll only make things worst, now you've really got him started. :lol:

His posts are like his EPDs - what he lacks in accuracy, he's trying to make up for in volume!

George