Vermeer 504r Classic Baler

[Atimm693]

That's probably why feed lots go to the trouble of chopping hay to feed cattle they are finishing. I was really surprised at just how much cows will clean up chopped hay verse's hay that hasn't been chopped.

I can tell a big difference in my cattle's body condition at the end of winter ever since I have stared feeding chopped hay. That and the fact I feed my hay in skirted feeders that eliminates 25 to 30 % of waste on every bale I feed to them.

Eliminating that much waste is like feeding your cattle 33 extra round bales per every 100 bales you feed. Instead of your cattle only eating 66 bales out of every 100 bales you feed because the cows were able to waste the other 33 bales because it was feed either by the bales of hay being sit out with no feeder at all or poorly designed feeders like these black plastic pipe ring feeders. That you see a lot of your hay tromped into the mud where the hay had just fail out of the feeder around the bottom. Or where the cows had just flipped the feeder over and wasted most of the bale by tromping the hay in the mud and using the rest of the bale for bedding.

That's why these feed lots feed chopped hay in bunk feeders that they don't have 20 or 30 % waste. Just imagine how much waste 20 to 30 % is when your feeding several hundred head in a feed lot for finishing.

Your losing money in more ways than just the waste of the hay. That wasted hay causes you to lose a $1.40 or so per lb that your cattle didn't gain because they tromped your hay into the mud or didn't digest it as good as they could have if it had been chopped. You lose money on the cost of fuel it took you to bale/haul/feed that 20 to 30 % of wasted hay.

The list of reasons a cattlemen should try and eliminate wasted hay and get better nutrition results out of the hay you feed goes on and on.

Yes a silage baler cost more as compared to a conventional round baler. I have baled hay with a economy style Vermeer Rebel. And I was pretty happy with it. No more hay than I was bailing with it at the time. I really didn't notice or pay any attention to things like hay wasted through feeding it or because watered absorbed due to how tight and compact or tight the bale is baled penetrated the bale causing 5 or 6 inches of waste from sitting out in the rain.

I would say all hay stored outside of a barn in the weather is going to have some or certainty more waste than hay stored in a barn out of the rain and elements. And I hope to have more barn space to store my hay out of the weather than what I have now pretty soon. Adding on to my current barn now.

But depending on balers some wrap tighter bales and that helps some in eliminating waste.

I've seen the Vermeer marketing on chopped bales. They say a cow will take a bite of hay, chew on the middle and the ends fall to the ground, wasted. If the bales are prechopped into strips there are no ends to waste. It makes sense I guess, I have never watched a cow eat to verify. Ours still pick and sort through the best stuff just to be a pain in the rear.

We have a 604 Pro. Not actually a Vermeer baler, it's a Welger with Vermeer stickers. It's been pretty good.

We don't chop any of our dry hay. They make a huge mess when you cut the net off and you can't really unroll them, you just get a big pile that might stretch 50ft.

What we chop goes through the mixer, which helps considerably in processing time. Not as good as a forage chopper, but nowhere near the expense.

 

[jltrent]

Which one you interested in, the Signature or the Premium?

Vermeer "recommends" 65 PTO hp for the Premium. I'd love to see a 65hp tractor baling high moisture hay, but not from the driver's seat.

Also don't see any mention of knives on the 504R Premium, to my knowledge you have to go to the Pro series balers to get those.

You make some good points on the HP if a couple tractors are not available then I wonder if I could get by with 60-70 HP if I had too. I would not be interested in the entry classic version, but would settle for a Signature version. I unroll the hay so not really interested in the knives, but I bet it would be nice. The Signature recommends at least 55hp.

Vermeer Round Balers for Hay and Silage - Hay Equipment

Bale high-moisture hay, dry hay, cornstalks or a combination of all with our round hay balers. Explore Vermeer's lineup of hay and silage balers today.

www.vermeer.com

 

[Atimm693]

Silage takes a lot of power and weight to handle. Our 50x48 chopped silage bales are between 1600 and 2000 pounds. They really yank on the drawbar when they roll out of the baler.

 

[cfpinz]

You make some good points on the HP if a couple tractors are not available then I wonder if I could get by with 60-70 HP if I had too. I would not be interested in the entry classic version, but would settle for a Signature version. I unroll the hay so not really interested in the knives, but I bet it would be nice. The Signature recommends at least 55hp.

Vermeer Round Balers for Hay and Silage - Hay Equipment

Bale high-moisture hay, dry hay, cornstalks or a combination of all with our round hay balers. Explore Vermeer's lineup of hay and silage balers today.

www.vermeer.com

I'd like to have a second baler and keep going back and forth between the 504R series Vermeer and a 457, 458, 459 Deere - or possibly the 46x version. That way it could be used behind any of our tractors and wouldn't be so hard to pull. Currently, we're using a 604M (which Vermeer recommends 70 pto HP) and pulling it with 110 pto HP - and I can tell you that's not enough when you get into hills and/or wet hay.

I'd love to pull a 504R Premium with one of our 85 pto HP tractors, just to see how it handles it.

It's not exactly flat where you live, from what I've seen driving through!

 

[jltrent]

I'd like to have a second baler and keep going back and forth between the 504R series Vermeer and a 457, 458, 459 Deere - or possibly the 46x version. That way it could be used behind any of our tractors and wouldn't be so hard to pull. Currently, we're using a 604M (which Vermeer recommends 70 pto HP) and pulling it with 110 pto HP - and I can tell you that's not enough when you get into hills and/or wet hay.

I'd love to pull a 504R Premium with one of our 85 pto HP tractors, just to see how it handles it.

It's not exactly flat where you live, from what I've seen driving through!

Checked marketplace an a few listed. Not sure how they compare to new prices though. I believe I saw some on Craigslist also. Wonder what requires the 10 hp extra for the Premium? The bales are the same size. I was at Carter and Carter at Johnson City TN a few days ago and the guy there said new Balers would be in short supply for the next couple years. He was using a demo he said would be 4-sale shortly.

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[504RP]

I'd like to have a second baler and keep going back and forth between the 504R series Vermeer and a 457, 458, 459 Deere - or possibly the 46x version. That way it could be used behind any of our tractors and wouldn't be so hard to pull. Currently, we're using a 604M (which Vermeer recommends 70 pto HP) and pulling it with 110 pto HP - and I can tell you that's not enough when you get into hills and/or wet hay.

I'd love to pull a 504R Premium with one of our 85 pto HP tractors, just to see how it handles it.

It's not exactly flat where you live, from what I've seen driving through!

I am using a NH TL90 that I would have to look up the specs to be sure what I am saying is right. But I am pretty sure the engine PTO is 90 HP and would guess the PTO HP to be 70 + HP. And I have baled in hill pasture. Never bogged my 504R Premium down. Pulls/bales great.

 

[cfpinz]

Checked marketplace an a few listed. Not sure how they compare to new prices though. I believe I saw some on Craigslist also. Wonder what requires the 10 hp extra for the Premium? The bales are the same size. I was at Carter and Carter at Johnson City TN a few days ago and the guy there said new Balers would be in short supply for the next couple years. He was using a demo he said would be 4-sale shortly.

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The Premium runs at a faster speed than the Signature.

I had a 504L that was a factory demo, it ran like a scalded dog and would zap an 87 pto HP tractor in wet hay. I'm betting they swapped out the main drive gear or gearbox to a faster unit. I'd still have it if it had net.

 

[cfpinz]

I am using a NH TL90 that I would have to look up the specs to be sure what I am saying is right. But I am pretty sure the engine PTO is 90 HP and would guess the PTO HP to be 70 + HP. And I have baled in hill pasture. Never bogged my 504R Premium down. Pulls/bales great.

Have you baled any baleage with it?

 

[hillbilly beef man]

I'd like to have a second baler and keep going back and forth between the 504R series Vermeer and a 457, 458, 459 Deere - or possibly the 46x version. That way it could be used behind any of our tractors and wouldn't be so hard to pull. Currently, we're using a 604M (which Vermeer recommends 70 pto HP) and pulling it with 110 pto HP - and I can tell you that's not enough when you get into hills and/or wet hay.

I'd love to pull a 504R Premium with one of our 85 pto HP tractors, just to see how it handles it.

It's not exactly flat where you live, from what I've seen driving through!

I pull a 504 Signature with a 5083 (70 pto) and a 5100 (85 pto). On anything but flat ground the 5083 works its guts out. Most of the time you have to stay in B1 on steep ground (up to 28° according to my slope meter). On the 5100 I run out of nerve before I run out of speed on steep ground.

 

[kentuckyguy]

To me the new high capacity and silage balers are great but at what cost?

My area was farmed for 60 years with 36-50hp tractors. I just find it hard to justify a tractor with 80+ PTO hp.
Maybe I'm just looking at it wrong but I can't see why anyone would need a baler that required a tractor upgrade. I see a lot of balers talked about on here that our Kubota M7060 wouldn't pull.

With fuel prices like they are it would be hard to justify any bigger tractors. I've been looking hard at another baler but keep getting ran away by HP requirements.

 

[504RP]

Probably spelling this wrong but I think they called that machine a Dy

To me the new high capacity and silage balers are great but at what cost?

My area was farmed for 60 years with 36-50hp tractors. I just find it hard to justify a tractor with 80+ PTO hp.
Maybe I'm just looking at it wrong but I can't see why anyone would need a baler that required a tractor upgrade. I see a lot of balers talked about on here that our Kubota M7060 wouldn't pull.

With fuel prices like they are it would be hard to justify any bigger tractors. I've been looking hard at another baler but keep getting ran away by HP requirements.

You have to keep in mind cattle farmers back 60 years ago put up small square bales. The first round balers didn't come out until about 45 years ago.

You could use a 8 or 9N ford tractor to square bale hay with. Didn't need much hp to run a square baler or sickle mower. On average farms most cattlemen didn't run as many cattle as they do this day and time. There was a lot more work to feeding a truck load of square bales verses setting out a few round bales like today's times.

45 years ago cattle farmers could hire people 15 cents a bale to haul hay off the hay field and stack in their barn for them. That is if they had a barn. A lot of cattle farmers had old house's that they took the windows and doors out of to store hay in. I know this for a fact because I hauled several thousand bales at 15 cents a bale for them. And even at that there would be 3 of us that the 15 cents per bale would be split between after we took out 5 cents per bale and give to the owner of the truck we would haul hay with for the use of his truck and to pay for the gas. So actually we only had 10 cents per bale to split between the 3 of us.


Wasn't maybe 6 or 7 years ago you could buy a 1 lb rib eye steak for $ 6. Today a 1 lb rib eye cost close to $ 18.

60 years ago I bet a 1 lb rib eye cost around $ 2.

So in todays times if you are going to make your living in cattle. Your going to have to raise more cattle, bale more hay, own more land, more equipment and so on than they did 60 years ago. And you need more hp to do take care of cattle farming.

Unless your just going to raise a few head to sale for freezer beef and your own use. Not meaning to come across as sarcastic or anything like that. Just the way I see why more hp is needed now than was needed 60 years ago.

 

[kentuckyguy]

Probably spelling this wrong but I think they called that machine a Dy

You have to keep in mind cattle farmers back 60 years ago put up small square bales. The first round balers didn't come out until about 45 years ago.

You could use a 8 or 9N ford tractor to square bale hay with. Didn't need much hp to run a square baler or sickle mower. On average farms most cattlemen didn't run as many cattle as they do this day and time. There was a lot more work to feeding a truck load of square bales verses setting out a few round bales like today's times.

45 years ago cattle farmers could hire people 15 cents a bale to haul hay off the hay field and stack in their barn for them. That is if they had a barn. A lot of cattle farmers had old house's that they took the windows and doors out of to store hay in. I know this for a fact because I hauled several thousand bales at 15 cents a bale for them. And even at that there would be 3 of us that the 15 cents per bale would be split between after we took out 5 cents per bale and give to the owner of the truck we would haul hay with for the use of his truck and to pay for the gas. So actually we only had 10 cents per bale to split between the 3 of us.


Wasn't maybe 6 or 7 years ago you could buy a 1 lb rib eye steak for $ 6. Today a 1 lb rib eye cost close to $ 18.

60 years ago I bet a 1 lb rib eye cost around $ 2.

So in todays times if you are going to make your living in cattle. Your going to have to raise more cattle, bale more hay, own more land, more equipment and so on than they did 60 years ago. And you need more hp to do take care of cattle farming.

Unless your just going to raise a few head to sale for freezer beef and your own use. Not meaning to come across as sarcastic or anything like that. Just the way I see why more hp is needed now than was needed 60 years ago.

This seems like an excellent mentality to go broke raising cattle. The more money you throw at something doesn't make it better.

You don't need 100hp tractors to bale round bales for cattle.

 

[Silver]

You don't need 100hp tractors to bale round bales for cattle.

Perhaps you don't. I do. Still in business too. No two operations are the same.

 

[cfpinz]

Perhaps you don't. I do. Still in business too. No two operations are the same.

Exactly. Everyone's situation is different.

I could get by with a 50hp tractor and a small baler, if I wanted to drag my hay season out for a couple months or better and feed my cows straw. But with short windows of opportunity between weather and maturity stages, it sure works better if you can drop a large amount of hay at once and put it up in a timely fashion.

 

[jltrent]

I pull a 504 Signature with a 5083 (70 pto) and a 5100 (85 pto). On anything but flat ground the 5083 works its guts out. Most of the time you have to stay in B1 on steep ground (up to 28° according to my slope meter). On the 5100 I run out of nerve before I run out of speed on steep ground.

Good info. The new Vermeer models baling chambers are designed like the JDs. Everybody I have talked with that has a JD says it takes at least 10 more hp to pull than the older design Vermeer's. Last week I was baling on one side of the road with a Vermeer 505M and a neighbor with a JD6420 tractor and a 459 JD baler was on the other side of the road. Just from observation I did not see anything out of his machine over mine to make me want his. To me do I want to find a good used 504N or buy a new Vermeer 504r(JD) baler. By the way my 505M has 17195 bales on the count with not a lot of problems.