Vermeer 504r Classic Baler

[A.J.]

Does anyone here have any experience with the 504r Classic balers? Evidently they are the model that replaced the Rebel. Our local dealer has a pretty good deal on one on their lot, and we're considering trading our old Super I in on it. Thanks for any info.

 

[hurleyjd]

It looks like a very good baler. I like the fact that it has a wider pickup and make it easier to rake a wider windrow without the hay piling up between the wheels and balling up. That is the problem I have with the 5410 balers I have. That is the windrows became to wide and thick. The hay will get behind the tucker wheels and stop the baler from rolling.

 

[cfpinz]

I have zero operating experience with one, but have looked them over on the dealer's lot a couple times. I don't like the look of all of the space between the belts, not sure why they put 5 belts on that model instead of the normal 6? How much are you really saving by eliminating one belt?

What kind of pricing are you seeing on the Classic, and have you checked on the next model up in the series - the Signature baler?

 

[A.J.]

It looks like a very good baler. I like the fact that it has a wider pickup and make it easier to rake a wider windrow without the hay piling up between the wheels and balling up. That is the problem I have with the 5410 balers I have. That is the windrows became to wide and thick. The hay will get behind the tucker wheels and stop the baler from rolling.

I've run into the same thing with our Super I. Hay can get jammed up and stuck under the hay saver wheels and I have to back up to get the wad out.

 

[A.J.]

I have zero operating experience with one, but have looked them over on the dealer's lot a couple times. I don't like the look of all of the space between the belts, not sure why they put 5 belts on that model instead of the normal 6? How much are you really saving by eliminating one belt?

What kind of pricing are you seeing on the Classic, and have you checked on the next model up in the series - the Signature baler?

That was one thing I wasn't crazy about. I wish they had the additional belt on them. Different dealers I've checked with have them priced from $21-24000. The signature was between $30-32000.

 

[ClodHopper37869]

I have a 504N, I was told that the 504R replaced the 504N, I like my N, and I would love to have a R, just for the wide pickup...

 

[hurleyjd]

I have zero operating experience with one, but have looked them over on the dealer's lot a couple times. I don't like the look of all of the space between the belts, not sure why they put 5 belts on that model instead of the normal 6? How much are you really saving by eliminating one belt?

What kind of pricing are you seeing on the Classic, and have you checked on the next model up in the series - the Signature baler?

That was one thing I wasn't crazy about. I wish they had the additional belt on them. Different dealers I've checked with have them priced from $21-24000. The signature was between $30-32000.

The 5420 that was after the 5410 only has 5 belts but they are wider belts. Looks like you would have the same belt area with the five verus the six..

 

[True Grit Farms]

I've been wanting a new net wrap baler for years, but can't justify the purchase for rolling 500 bales a year. But I do know, if I were to buy a new baler it wouldn't be another 5x4. A 6x4 is the smallest I'd buy, and if it wasn't for selling hay a 6x5 would be even better. It takes a lot more time to haul and feed hay 5x4 rolls.

 

[jltrent]

All new design baler as stated before by cfpinz and I know nothing about. I have looked at them on the local dealer lot. They look to be designed like a Deere baler, which I like the old design Vermeer better. If I was in the market for a new baler would look hard a NH.

 

[1982vett]

I've been wanting a new net wrap baler for years, but can't justify the purchase for rolling 500 bales a year. But I do know, if I were to buy a new baler it wouldn't be another 5x4. A 6x4 is the smallest I'd buy, and if it wasn't for selling hay a 6x5 would be even better. It takes a lot more time to haul and feed hay 5x4 rolls.

Used to have a JD 410. Made about a 6 - 700 pound 4x5 bale. The Vermeer 605L will make a 5x5 1/2 bale. 5x5's stack better in my barns and weigh about 1000-1100 lbs. For me, I prefer the smaller bale. I get less waste feeding two smaller bales as opposed to the larger bales. Why feed 2 bales? Feeding space around a hay ring. Could unroll one roll, but still to much hay for 35 or so cows to clean up. Then you have to consider the groups with 15 to 25. I Actually cut the size to 4 1/2 ft a few years ago when folks balked at $70 a roll for hay that had $50 worth of fertilizer in it. Cut the price to $65 and nobody said a thing.
A smaller roll works better for me. Stopped growing hay to sell too.

 

[True Grit Farms]

I've been wanting a new net wrap baler for years, but can't justify the purchase for rolling 500 bales a year. But I do know, if I were to buy a new baler it wouldn't be another 5x4. A 6x4 is the smallest I'd buy, and if it wasn't for selling hay a 6x5 would be even better. It takes a lot more time to haul and feed hay 5x4 rolls.

Used to have a JD 410. Made about a 6 - 700 pound 4x5 bale. The Vermeer 605L will make a 5x5 1/2 bale. 5x5's stack better in my barns and weigh about 1000-1100 lbs. For me, I prefer the smaller bale. I get less waste feeding two smaller bales as opposed to the larger bales. Why feed 2 bales? Feeding space around a hay ring. Could unroll one roll, but still to much hay for 35 or so cows to clean up. Then you have to consider the groups with 15 to 25. I Actually cut the size to 4 1/2 ft a few years ago when folks balked at $70 a roll for hay. Cut the price to $65 and nobody said a thing.
A smaller roll works better for me. Stopped growing hay to sell too.

I feed hay out of trailers, three 6x5 rolls fit perfectly, I can squeeze four 6x4 rolls in but the cows will waste hay eating from the ends of the trailer. Hopefully my new design will fix that.

 

[1982vett]

Thankfully I don't feed all that much hay if the weather cooperates just a little. Another benefit of cutting back the herd size.

 

[cfpinz]

It takes a lot more time to haul and feed hay 5x4 rolls.

5x4 rolls are the most efficient for me to haul. I can stack 30 on a 43' drop deck semi using a double stacked top row. If I go to a 5' wide bale I have to single stack the top, and if I increase diameter to even a 65" bale then I lose 4 rolls from the trailer load. Everyone's situation is different.

I like the 6x4 baler as I can roll 66" diameter bales at home or where they're not going to be hauled, then punch a couple buttons and make them 60" for hauling.

 

[jltrent]

Any more people purchased a new 504r Vermeer? I have looked at a nice 504N used and a new 504r Signature baler recently. They are almost completely different designed balers. The 504N is a lot like my M baler so I know the baler design well. I wonder on the R baler if it is as easy to pull and works just as good as the previous models? I want another baler, but not sure I want to put 40k in one.

 

[504RP]

I bought the 504RP 2 years ago. It is a silage baler. At that time Vermeer would finance the baler at zero % interest on the loan.

Depending on your credit score they would finance it with no money down. Think I have right at 30k for the baler. I am real happy with the baler. I had never fed any hay that had been baled with a silage baler nor did I know silage baler's chops the hay up as it rolls the hay up into a bale.

So I was really surprised at how a bale that has been baled with a silage baler will just sort of fall apart when either the net wrap or twine it was baled with is cut off of it too feed the hay out.

I guess the chopping up of the hay helps to some how ferment the grass better after it is wrapped in plastic. I am just guessing on that part. I personally have never wrapped hay for silage.

 

[504RP]

I accidentally entered my reply to jltrent before I was finished saying what I had to say about silage balers.

So as I was saying I personally have never wrapped any hay for silage but plan on doing it some day. But I feel that even if you don't wrap the hay baled by a silage baler. You still benefit a lot and benefit more than you would with hay baled by a standard round baler.

Because cattle will clean up chopped hay a whole lot better than unchopped hay. Especially if you feed the hay in good round bale skirted feeders.

The combination of feeding chopped hay in skirted hay ring feeders really cuts down on waste. In my opinion feeding chopped hay also helps cattle digest the hay better, and they benefit more from the nutrients in the hay.
Especially since cattle rely more on regurgitating, chewing their cud process to absorb nutrients from the hay.

 

[504RP]

That's probably why feed lots go to the trouble of chopping hay to feed cattle they are finishing. I was really surprised at just how much cows will clean up chopped hay verse's hay that hasn't been chopped.

I can tell a big difference in my cattle's body condition at the end of winter ever since I have stared feeding chopped hay. That and the fact I feed my hay in skirted feeders that eliminates 25 to 30 % of waste on every bale I feed to them.

Eliminating that much waste is like feeding your cattle 33 extra round bales per every 100 bales you feed. Instead of your cattle only eating 66 bales out of every 100 bales you feed because the cows were able to waste the other 33 bales because it was feed either by the bales of hay being sit out with no feeder at all or poorly designed feeders like these black plastic pipe ring feeders. That you see a lot of your hay tromped into the mud where the hay had just fail out of the feeder around the bottom. Or where the cows had just flipped the feeder over and wasted most of the bale by tromping the hay in the mud and using the rest of the bale for bedding.

That's why these feed lots feed chopped hay in bunk feeders that they don't have 20 or 30 % waste. Just imagine how much waste 20 to 30 % is when your feeding several hundred head in a feed lot for finishing.

Your losing money in more ways than just the waste of the hay. That wasted hay causes you to lose a $1.40 or so per lb that your cattle didn't gain because they tromped your hay into the mud or didn't digest it as good as they could have if it had been chopped. You lose money on the cost of fuel it took you to bale/haul/feed that 20 to 30 % of wasted hay.

The list of reasons a cattlemen should try and eliminate wasted hay and get better nutrition results out of the hay you feed goes on and on.

Yes a silage baler cost more as compared to a conventional round baler. I have baled hay with a economy style Vermeer Rebel. And I was pretty happy with it. No more hay than I was bailing with it at the time. I really didn't notice or pay any attention to things like hay wasted through feeding it or because watered absorbed due to how tight and compact or tight the bale is baled penetrated the bale causing 5 or 6 inches of waste from sitting out in the rain.

I would say all hay stored outside of a barn in the weather is going to have some or certainty more waste than hay stored in a barn out of the rain and elements. And I hope to have more barn space to store my hay out of the weather than what I have now pretty soon. Adding on to my current barn now.

But depending on balers some wrap tighter bales and that helps some in eliminating waste.

 

[jltrent]

That's probably why feed lots go to the trouble of chopping hay to feed cattle they are finishing. I was really surprised at just how much cows will clean up chopped hay verse's hay that hasn't been chopped.

I can tell a big difference in my cattle's body condition at the end of winter ever since I have stared feeding chopped hay. That and the fact I feed my hay in skirted feeders that eliminates 25 to 30 % of waste on every bale I feed to them.

Eliminating that much waste is like feeding your cattle 33 extra round bales per every 100 bales you feed. Instead of your cattle only eating 66 bales out of every 100 bales you feed because the cows were able to waste the other 33 bales because it was feed either by the bales of hay being sit out with no feeder at all or poorly designed feeders like these black plastic pipe ring feeders. That you see a lot of your hay tromped into the mud where the hay had just fail out of the feeder around the bottom. Or where the cows had just flipped the feeder over and wasted most of the bale by tromping the hay in the mud and using the rest of the bale for bedding.

That's why these feed lots feed chopped hay in bunk feeders that they don't have 20 or 30 % waste. Just imagine how much waste 20 to 30 % is when your feeding several hundred head in a feed lot for finishing.

Your losing money in more ways than just the waste of the hay. That wasted hay causes you to lose a $1.40 or so per lb that your cattle didn't gain because they tromped your hay into the mud or didn't digest it as good as they could have if it had been chopped. You lose money on the cost of fuel it took you to bale/haul/feed that 20 to 30 % of wasted hay.

The list of reasons a cattlemen should try and eliminate wasted hay and get better nutrition results out of the hay you feed goes on and on.

Yes a silage baler cost more as compared to a conventional round baler. I have baled hay with a economy style Vermeer Rebel. And I was pretty happy with it. No more hay than I was bailing with it at the time. I really didn't notice or pay any attention to things like hay wasted through feeding it or because watered absorbed due to how tight and compact or tight the bale is baled penetrated the bale causing 5 or 6 inches of waste from sitting out in the rain.

I would say all hay stored outside of a barn in the weather is going to have some or certainty more waste than hay stored in a barn out of the rain and elements. And I hope to have more barn space to store my hay out of the weather than what I have now pretty soon. Adding on to my current barn now.

But depending on balers some wrap tighter bales and that helps some in eliminating waste.

Thanks for the information 504RP. How does the R baler compare to taking hay and HP requirements compared to the Rebel baler?

 

[504RP]

I was using a TN65 NH when I was bailing with my Rebel. The dealership I bought that tractor from told me it would be plenty of hp on both the engine and PTO. My Rebel only had to have 40 hp on the PTO. The dealer if I remember right said the PTO on my TN65 was rated for I think 45 hp. Because it was so close to the minimum 40 hp rating of the Rebel I was afraid I wouldn't have enough hp to run the baler. But the dealer told me that the manufacturer usually advertises their equipment hp ratings less than what the machine is actually putting out. He hooked the tractor up to device that measures the hp the PTO is putting out. And it showed the PTO was making around 55 HP even though the manufacturer rating was 45HP. I am using a TL90 4x4 to bale with my 504RP , 90HP on the engine, can't remember the PTO HP. Jltrent I am not sure what size HP on the tractor and PTO would be recommended to run a R baler. I would think you should be good with your 80HP. I don't know though about the 60HP ? That R baler wraps up a good tight bale. It's a lot more baler than the Rebel though.

 

[cfpinz]

Any more people purchased a new 504r Vermeer? I have looked at a nice 504N used and a new 504r Signature baler recently. They are almost completely different designed balers. The 504N is a lot like my M baler so I know the baler design well. I wonder on the R baler if it is as easy to pull and works just as good as the previous models? I want another baler, but not sure I want to put 40k in one.

Which one you interested in, the Signature or the Premium?

Vermeer "recommends" 65 PTO hp for the Premium. I'd love to see a 65hp tractor baling high moisture hay, but not from the driver's seat.

Also don't see any mention of knives on the 504R Premium, to my knowledge you have to go to the Pro series balers to get those.