rkm
Well-known member
While I was in dairy business we had a lot of upside down calves , some upside down and backward. Some years worse than others. Vets never had a good answer for it. We also had a problem with twisted Uteruses.
Upside down
- Thread starter randiliana
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I have heard of operations having a lot of trouble with backwards calves. They sold all of their bulls and replaced them. This pretty much eliminated the problem.
I had a cow that had three backwards calves in her lifetime. Makes me think that it is genetic. Have kept daughters from her and they have never had a backwards calve.
I definitely would try to do something different on the sire side of the equation.
I had a cow that had three backwards calves in her lifetime. Makes me think that it is genetic. Have kept daughters from her and they have never had a backwards calve.
I definitely would try to do something different on the sire side of the equation.
randiliana
Well-known member
W.B. said:
OK, I can give you all the details you could possibly want on the sire side of things!!
The bulls that we have had upsidedown calves are
Sire____Breed____________Calf Crops
125G__Horned Hereford _______2000 -2003
59L___Gelbveih _____________2003
119K__Horned Hereford_______2003 - 2005
3K____Horned Hereford ______2003 - 2006
28M___Black Angus _________2004
1134L _Black Angus _________2003 - 2006
019K___Gelbveih____________2005 - 2006
And the calves that were upside down in 2003
Cow#......... BW......... Sire
56 ............. 79......... 59L
42............. 96.......... 59L
81............. 78.......... 125G
203 ............101......... 119K
204............. 82 ..........125G
in 2004
9.............. 72 ........... 28M
100 ........... 85............ 1134L
in 2005
222............ 106........... 119K
in 2006 so far
64............... 86............ 019K
As you can see by this there is no rhyme nor reason :roll: . There in no specific sire that is giving us upside down calves and some of them we have used for several years and only had upsidedown calves in one year or they have missed years in between. We have also had other sires here and there that we have NOT had upsidedown calves from but many of them didn't last long so who knows what could have been. We had one other upside down calf previous to these and it was out of a heifer that we had bought and was bred Limo. So unless we have been really unlucky in our choice of bulls I cannot see how the sire could be responsible! :lol:
CattleAnnie
Well-known member
Randi,
Sometimes these things just happen.
Hang in there...hopefully you're through with dealing with them - at least for this calving season. ;-)
Take care.
Sometimes these things just happen.
Hang in there...hopefully you're through with dealing with them - at least for this calving season. ;-)
Take care.
Mikec: There was an article in either Beef Toady or Beef magazine on the backward calf subject. The vet quoted in the article said they had a producer that solved the problem by changing bulls. It has to do with the rate of fetus growth during the last trimester I think.
randiliana
Well-known member
CattleAnnie":3l9dy4ry said:
Yes they do!! I just thought I would bring this one up for the newbies, that may encounter it and wonder what the heck!! And to see what everyone else has to say.
randiliana
Well-known member
W.B.":3768q9t9 said:
Ahhhhh, that could make sense!!
randiliana
Well-known member
MikeC":3qk72q5o said:
Good point, that would be part of the growth factor. But, most of the growth happens in the last trimester, and there can be a wide range of BW between different bulls obviously. Some do grow faster than others, but then again if that is the reason for backwards calves, there should be many, many more backwards calves. And by the way, backwards is a NORMAL presentation!!
MikeC":3onyp2st said:
It wold have something to do with all three if that is the cause. But, why isn;t it more common with high BW calves if that was the cause. Maybe smaller barreled cows and a very full rumen would cause it, that's a combination of the bull, the cow and her sire and dams influence plus management
dun
randiliana
Well-known member
jcarkie":3ml04b8j said:
That is actually kind of what I was thinking. I heard somewhere along the line that the cow carries the calf upsidedown until shortly before birth, but I have searched high and low on the internet and haven't been able to come up with anything that substantuates that!! I will keep looking though ;-)
jcarkie":2ddk4olz said:
According to the articles I've read (they are a year or two old and maybe there is new research since then that I haven't seen), backwards calves result from a rapid growth in the early part of the last trimester that prevents them from being able to turn around into the normal feet and head first presentation and the bull contributes to this, but I cannot remember for the life of me how - nor am I having any luck finding those articles. I'm still looking, though.
Susie David
Well-known member
Interesting that Cattle Annie recently made a great post covering calving. One link gave the time frame associated with the process...the calf rotates to the up right position 2-6 hours before birth. Seems to me that if there was a large calf and the dam has a full rumen the roatation would be impared and labor would start regardless of position. Wonder if there is a ratio associated with the calf size, and dam's feeding habits and the time of calving.
Just my two bits worth. DMc
Just my two bits worth. DMc
rkm
Well-known member
Sometimes we lay the cow down and roll her to untwist the uterus. It had to be done slowly while the vet made sure the calf did not roll with her. It usually took 3 to 4 people. Important make sure you rolled her the right way.
LonghornRanch":vrdy1oou said:
Either that or stand on the ground to ai anddon't do it while reaching down while standing on the side of the chute. Seriously though, I would say its genetic-see if the cows that are doing this are related, if not look to the bull.
