Upside down

[randiliana]

Here is something that many cattlemen rarely see. For us though it is our #1 calving problem. Upside down calves. It has gotten to the point now that when we feel upside down hooves that we don't even suspect a backwards calf. About 3 years ago :shock: 10% of our calves were upside down. And every year since we have had more than 2. More in fact than were backwards or otherwise malpresented. If anyone has any ideas WHY I would love to hear them. Oh, and out of 5 calves born so far this spring we have already had one that was upside down . One of the suggestions is that we feed on a hill I'm starting to wonder. Not that it is much of a hill, it's more of a slope really.

 

[dun]

Over feeding maybe?

dun

 

[ollie']

I can't remember ever having one upside down.

 

[MikeC]

Here is something that many cattlemen rarely see. For us though it is our #1 calving problem. Upside down calves. It has gotten to the point now that when we feel upside down hooves that we don't even suspect a backwards calf. About 3 years ago :shock: 10% of our calves were upside down. And every year since we have had more than 2. More in fact than were backwards or otherwise malpresented. If anyone has any ideas WHY I would love to hear them. Oh, and out of 5 calves born so far this spring we have already had one that was upside down . One of the suggestions is that we feed on a hill I'm starting to wonder. Not that it is much of a hill, it's more of a slope really.

That's what you get when you have Australian calves out of Canadian cows. Upside down.

 

[randiliana]

Over feeding maybe?

dun

I don't think that would be the reason here. They usually are restricted somewhat on the feed intake. We try to stay around 30 lbs/ cow /day. I know a lot of people around here that have their cattle on self feed and they don't have this problem.

 

[randiliana]

That's what you get when you have Australian calves out of Canadian cows. Upside down.

:lol: :lol: :lol: good one!!

 

[Beefy]

i think certain bloodlines are more prone to this sort of thing. are these cows related? i'm assuming youve been using different bulls...

 

[novaman]

Over feeding maybe?

dun

I don't think that would be the reason here. They usually are restricted somewhat on the feed intake. We try to stay around 30 lbs/ cow /day. I know a lot of people around here that have their cattle on self feed and they don't have this problem.

Just curious but why are you trying to limit their intake? They know when they are full and limiting them during pregnancy seems like a no no to me. As far as the upside down calves, I doubt this would be anything except genetic. Are the same cows having problems?

 

[msscamp]

Over feeding maybe?

dun

I don't think that would be the reason here. They usually are restricted somewhat on the feed intake. We try to stay around 30 lbs/ cow /day. I know a lot of people around here that have their cattle on self feed and they don't have this problem.

Just curious but why are you trying to limit their intake? They know when they are full and limiting them during pregnancy seems like a no no to me. As far as the upside down calves, I doubt this would be anything except genetic. Are the same cows having problems?

Cows do not necessarily know when they are 'full' and overconditioned cows will lead to as many calving problems as underconditioned cows. Too thin and they will not bred back and cannot support a calf, too fat and they cannot calve without help, plus overfeeding in the last trimester goes to the developement of the calf and results in the calves being bigger and leads to dystocia, pulling calves, heifers not accepting their calves due to the stress of pulling, and all sorts of other problems. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

 

[novaman]

Sorry about the misunderstanding MS. I meant more towards hay. I just let my cows eat all the hay they want. I suppose if it was alfalfa or something that was high in protein you would run into problems but most grass is low enough in protein where it shouldn't cause problems. Feeding grain or some sort of supplements could definately cause problems.

 

[msscamp]

Sorry about the misunderstanding MS. I meant more towards hay. I just let my cows eat all the hay they want. I suppose if it was alfalfa or something that was high in protein you would run into problems but most grass is low enough in protein where it shouldn't cause problems. Feeding grain or some sort of supplements could definately cause problems.

No problem.

 

[cedar]

Turn AI gun over

 

[LonghornRanch]

Turn AI gun over

LOL! :lol:

 

[randiliana]

i think certain bloodlines are more prone to this sort of thing. are these cows related? i'm assuming youve been using different bulls...

Some of the cows would be related, but for the most part I don't think that would be the case. Most of our cows have been purchased from different sources over the last 8 or so years. As well we are seeing it in both old and young cows. We use hereford, angus and gelbveih bulls and have had upside down calves from all 3 breeds and from more than 1 bull of each breed.

Randi

 

[randiliana]

Just curious but why are you trying to limit their intake? They know when they are full and limiting them during pregnancy seems like a no no to me. As far as the upside down calves, I doubt this would be anything except genetic. Are the same cows having problems?

We limit their feed intake because we feed good quality hay, and they really don't need more than 30 lbs of good quality hay anyways. And it gets pretty expensive letting them eat and eat and eat. As well, we can tell by how the cows act every morning whether they are getting enough feed. When they slowly amble over to see what's for dinner we don't worry too much but if they come running as soon as they hear the tractor then we know that they aren't getting enough!!

No, it is different cows every time.

 

[dun]

i think certain bloodlines are more prone to this sort of thing. are these cows related? i'm assuming youve been using different bulls...

Some of the cows would be related, but for the most part I don't think that would be the case. Most of our cows have been purchased from different sources over the last 8 or so years. As well we are seeing it in both old and young cows. We use hereford, angus and gelbveih bulls and have had upside down calves from all 3 breeds and from more than 1 bull of each breed.

Randi

If it's not from overly full rumens (that was the overfeeding question) the Australian calves out of Canadian cows is as close as any other guess. How about exercise, are they drylotted or out on pasture and having to cover some territory for feed to water to minerals?

dun

 

[randiliana]

Turn AI gun over

HAHAHAHAHAHA!! These cows were all bred by natural service!! I would hate to be out there explaining to them that they have to change their methods!!

 

[jcarkie]

is there a connection in the cows that have had the upside down calves?r is it the same cows, or different everytime?
as stated are they related? 1/2 sisters, common sire somewhere, etc...?

 

[randiliana]

during the winter they are out on either a 1/4 section or 1/2 section and they have to walk from the feed to the water. We bring them in about 10 days ahead of calving and then they will walk about 1/8 mile from feed to water (uphill). And yes they are supplied with minerals too.

 

[randiliana]

is there a connection in the cows that have had the upside down calves?r is it the same cows, or different everytime?
as stated are they related? 1/2 sisters, common sire somewhere, etc...?

To the best of my knowledge they are not related at all. All but one of thhem was purchased at sometime in the past. some were purchased 7 years ago and some only a couple. They almost all came from a different place too. And, the dam of the one we raised has never had misrepresented calf of any sort. As well, birthweights on these calves was anywhere from 72 to 106 pounds. So there you are....... who knows, but it is an interesting topic!!