Totally New At This, Looking For Help Raising Cattle

[DaveinMaryland]

So now I'm learning that cows attack German Shepherds? WTF???? The fence is currently about 10-15 yards into the woods now, maybe a little deeper in parts as the grass is kind of cut at an angle at one point in the field. Guess I wasn't clear about that, my plan was to have the hot wire on the same route so there will be additional food and shelter. Do they eat tree leaves? Does a hot wire have a signal, like an invisible fence, should a tree fall and break the circuit? I have a gate leading to the field that is large enough to fit a full sized pickup through it. But if a cow dies down there I don't see how heavy equipment will get through to be able to dispose of it.

 

[LRTX1]

Depends on the dog...and the cows for that matter. Many ranchers have dogs and cows with 0 problems. Keep your dog under control until everyone gets used to things. A hot wire is just that a hot "wire" if a tree falls on it yes it will short the circuit, same as your fence, if a tree falls on it, it will get knocked down. Thats just part of having cattle, fence inspection/maintenacnce. If you can get a truck into your field you should be able to get a cow disposed of.

 

[DaveinMaryland]

If the circuit shorts is there any alarm or is it up to me to determine if the downed line has shorted the circuit? And how exactly do I do that without shocking the **** out of myself?

 

[dun]

If the circuit shorts is there any alarm or is it up to me to determine if the downed line has shorted the circuit? And how exactly do I do that without shocking the **** out of myself?

The alarm is usually that the cows get out. To fix it without getting zapped you turn the charger off

 

[Caustic Burno]

If the circuit shorts is there any alarm or is it up to me to determine if the downed line has shorted the circuit? And how exactly do I do that without shocking the **** out of myself?

The alarm is usually that the cows get out. To fix it without getting zapped you turn the charger off

You are dead on about the alarm, this is usually followed by a string of cuss words and examining your IQ for owning the beast. Buy a fence tester and put it on your ATV saves lots of steps, I would hate to know I had to walk a 1/4 mile to the charger. I have three 20 mile chargers and in the event any one stops due to needing battery change out the other two can cover the fence.

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

Dave, some good advice on this thread... Please don't take any "negative" comments personally...it's just some people's way of communicating and/or giving "advice".

That said...

Cattle are a 24/7/365 adventure. If something can happen (fences, escapes, injuries, death, etc.), it will. Infrastructure is paramount first.

With a small acreage, strongly consider mini-cattle, such as Dexters. They have good full bodies and usually weigh in the 700 to 800 lb range as adults (of course, some can be larger). Lots of meat on those minis and more than adequate for the "average" 2 people: probably 150 to 200 lbs of "packaged meat" on the animal; less, if slaughtered in the 400 to 500 lb range as young yearlings. Depends a lot on their body condition score, and what meat you actually keep to eat and/or share with your friends and neighbors.

Another note: Several times you have mentioned about "vacations", a "week at the beach", "long weekends," etc. Implies that you have a "regular 8-5 type job". In agriculture and livestock, "time off" is worked around weather, crops, animals (not the other way around). Without a 100% reliable back-up plan (people to help out), Murphy's Law will raise its ugly head now, later, or in the future. Just be prepared and accept what comes your way...

The "real" benefit of eating your own animal is that you know what it ate and don't have to worry about any "harmful" things a producer or feedlot fed or injected it with (if that matters to you).

JMO

 

[Suzie Q]

That's a good idea CB - when I am a bit richer.

You can spend hours fixing a fence and 20 minutes later a branch falls on it and it is no longer working.

You can get a charger that will alarm if the circuit is broken. It is great if you have a circle back to the charger from your gate. If someone opens the gate to come through the alarm will go off and you know you have a visitor.

It just depends on how much you want to spend. The charger with the alarm is of course expensive.

So is the the tester that we have that tells you in which direction the fault is. You can get a basic tester that just tells you what the fence is testing at for much cheaper, as well as a charger that does not alarm for much cheaper.

 

[DaveinMaryland]

First off don't think for a minute that I'm taking the negative comments personally. That's why I came here, I want to know exactly what I would be getting into. I do have a full time job and I do spend my summers going away and having fun. This little hobby will totally take over my life if I am no longer able to do the things I love just to stock the freezer. This is looking more and more like a project that will have to wait for retirement. One look at my 401 tells me I may need to do this or eat cat food.

One thought on the electric fence and the gate. Um...how does that work? As I said we take our dogs to the field daily through a small gate, I built another that allows the truck to go through. How do you run the electric wire throught them?

 

[tmlonghorns]

You have just summarized what this lifestyle is all about and it aint for everybody. I too work a 8-5 job...despite tha fact that my employer wants to turn it into a 6AM to 8PM job. But, when I get home, taking care of the livestock and all of the other stuff that goes with having the animals, well, that is my vacation! Sad and sickening to some, for me, it is what I live for. It is my relaxation! You will know pretty quickly if this lifestyle is for you or not and there is no in between.
The good news with cattle though is that they are very liquid in that you probably will have a choice of several sale barns within a hour or so that you can take the cattle to if it gets to be to much for you. Try spending some time with a local guy who has cattle to make sure you are cut out for it and don't be ashamed if you decide not to jump in, like I said, this aint for everybody but for those that are in it........well most of them wouldnt give it up for anything, including me.

NOTE: It aint always easy and things never go as planned.

 

[dun]

If it's a regular gate vs a hot wire gate you just run the hotwire through doubleinsulated wire underground from one side of the gate to the other.
Go to kencove.com and look at the illustrations on hotwire fencing

 

[Suzie Q]

You have a wire that crosses the gate and it attaches to a hook. You are able to grab the middle of the hook and it is insulated. You hold the hook and lift and walk it back to the other side of the gate and attach it to the electric wire there. You can then open the gate and drive through, get out to close the gate, grab the handle and walk it back across the gate and attach to the electric fence on the other side.

The alarmed charger will alarm if the voltage drops or if there is an opening in the circuit. By lifting the hook you have stopped the circuit so the alarm will register. That is when you know you have a vistior, or something has happened to the fence.

My hubby works a job. He has me at home looking after the cattle while he is gone.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Owning cattle is blood pressure medication for those of us who have low blood pressure, cause nothing can make it boil quicker. I know one day I was standing at the barn and seen two Angus girls, I said to myself Daryll's cows are out again.
Looked again at the ear tags and they were mine! Tree fell on the fence.
Most of all don't forget the liabilities that go with owning cattle, you go off for a week they get out and some mom and a minivan full of kids hit ole Belle, you are in for a good time.

 

[backhoeboogie]

First off don't think for a minute that I'm taking the negative comments personally. That's why I came here, I want to know exactly what I would be getting into.

I'm tickled you didn't ask about goats. If your fences will hold water, they'll hold goats. Can't tell you much more about them than that.

 

[DaveinMaryland]

Yeah I know all about goats. But as I said earlier the only purpose of this thing is to fill the freezer, I could never do it with a goat.

For the life of me I'm still trying to figure out why 2 small steers are so much work daily. I mean they graze on the grass in the field, then near the end of the line you feed them corn and maybe throw in a salt lick with molasses And of course you need to fill the water trough daily. The fence has an alarm but every now and then you check to see if there are trees down or whatever. Help me understand why, once everything is set up, this is a part time job please. Clearly I'm missing something because I can't see why this would be that much work.

 

[djinwa]

Yeah I know all about goats. But as I said earlier the only purpose of this thing is to fill the freezer, I could never do it with a goat.

For the life of me I'm still trying to figure out why 2 small steers are so much work daily. I mean they graze on the grass in the field, then near the end of the line you feed them corn and maybe throw in a salt lick with molasses And of course you need to fill the water trough daily. The fence has an alarm but every now and then you check to see if there are trees down or whatever. Help me understand why, once everything is set up, this is a part time job please. Clearly I'm missing something because I can't see why this would be that much work.

I spend about 15 minutes daily with my two heifers. Throw hay to them twice daily and fill up water. Don't need a water heater in winter for one or two - just pack a bucket of hot water out on my way and add to trough.

Yes, I think the fearmongering has gotten a little out of hand. I moved here onto 5 acres when transferred in the military and the next day went and got me 2 bottle calves. Threw them in the back seat of our Honda with a couple of my kids. Got a few looks during that ride. Then I figured it out. Granted I had been raised with cows, but I didn't have state of the art facilities. But as I said earlier, as long as you have a small pen, you can figure the rest out later. Go to your local farm store and ask them what to build a pen out of.

As I've said before, the concern about a cow on two acres not being enough is crazy. Look at feedlots!!! Probably a hundred on an acre. I keep a couple on just two acres and I don't have a mudpit. That only happens if they stand in one area alot. I also built a portable feeder on skids I can move a couple feet a day in the winter. Helps distribute the manure to fertilize the pasture.

The biggest factor is whether you get nutcase animals. If you get nutcases, no fence will work. If you have some relatively calm, you don't need as much. Also, a single bovine will want to stay home better if naturally gentle.

Get them really spoiled to come to the sound of grain shaking in a can if you need to catch them or they get out. Not that big a deal.

Ideally you go buy an animal and get to pick from a group. Find one who doesn't shy or run away as much.

I use woven wire field fence and T-posts with a strand of barb wire on top that keeps them from reaching over. Railroad ties in the corners buried deep. Can't imagine having to deal with the hassles of electric fences all the time.

Again, hang out at your local farm supply store and they'll show you all you need to know. Look around at other people's fences. Ain't rocket science.

Sure there are risks, as there are in everything we do. Your vacations are more risky than cattle, as you will be sailing along on a highway at deadly speeds. One reason I have cows is to get out of going places and potentially dying on the highway. Right now I'm invited to a family gathering hours away I don't feel like going to. Tell them, sorry, I've got to take care of the animals.

This summer I'm going to Alaska to visit my son for a week. I know a couple young guys who would enjoy checking and feeding the cows. Not that big a deal. If there was a incident such as getting out while you're on vacation, and the can of grain didn't work, maybe your farm store might have a cowboy's number that could be paid to get them back in. Your neighbor could call them.

My most common reason for them getting out is just forgetting to shut gates. I've learned to not assume I can shut it later when I come back, because plans change and I forget. Shut it now!

 

[regolith]

Your daily chores amount to checking and feeding - you're right.
What people are getting at is the non-daily chores, exceptional events, which can tie you up for half a day chasing and cussing or trying to get hold of a vet. Without good facilities to keep the steers on your property those exceptional events could happen five or six times a day.
With all the experience, manpower, facilities you like, cattlemen have "exceptional" events occur regularly - don't the stories on the board prove that! Without them, they just happen more often.

Of course you could do this and be happy doing it - if you both secure your orchard and accept any losses that occur if the cattle do get into it, control your dogs until they are familiar with the cattle and the cattle with them and neither are showing inclination to bait the other, build a decent fence and check it as part of your daily/weekly chores (trees are less likely to fall on it if you remove any overhanging limbs or wobbly ones that are near the fence) and run a hot wire on the inside of the acreage.
Mud may or may not be an issue - I don't know your climate and soil type. But using an electric fence to graze in rotation will maximise grass growth and minimise ground damage *provided* you move them to a sacrifice area and feed them hay in very wet weather. So you have one small mud patch, not two acres of it.
Some folks can give their cows enough grass and leave for a week. I personally wouldn't sleep till I got back if I did that. 48 hours or pay someone else to come look after them is my limit.
Dun's advice about the gate wire is the best - you do the hard work once and never touch it again. You can also run the insulated wire directly across the ground and simply drive over it when you need to, but expect to replace it regularly in that case, eventually the insulation will split (even if the wire is run through alkathene as well) and the electricity'll start cracking onto the ground. I've seen wires with a handle run directly across the gate as Suzie describes but there's a high chance of it hotting up the whole gate from time to time.

 

[Caustic Burno]

One big thing he just skips over is what are Maryland's livestock laws and liabilities you are entering the risk pool when you buy cattle. Texas has farmer friendly laws but still has liabilties as well. He talks of long outings this is high risk exposure. Two steers could end up costing a bundle, all you need is one stray dog while your gone to start a whole lot of trouble. You can make the fence hotter than the hinges on the gates of hel and it won't stop a cow that want's out.

 

[Lon]

Yeah I know all about goats. But as I said earlier the only purpose of this thing is to fill the freezer, I could never do it with a goat.

For the life of me I'm still trying to figure out why 2 small steers are so much work daily. I mean they graze on the grass in the field, then near the end of the line you feed them corn and maybe throw in a salt lick with molasses And of course you need to fill the water trough daily. The fence has an alarm but every now and then you check to see if there are trees down or whatever. Help me understand why, once everything is set up, this is a part time job please. Clearly I'm missing something because I can't see why this would be that much work.

daily they arent alot of work. 2 steers would be like feeding a dog more or less. what these good poeple here are letting you in on is the fact that if something can go wrong it will. just the way it is with cattle. if it was as easy as let them graze dump some hay and water than everyone would be doing it. thing here is not good fences great fences are a absolute must. exspecially if your going to raise just a couple steers. last i checked nothing runs around a fence looking for weekspots like a yearling will. and trust me if there isnt a weak spot they can make one. like they said dog can get after them and even a hot wire aint gonna hold them. or they will just decide they want grass on the other side and jump u will learn alot with some yearlings. i say if you want to try it out than great i love to see poeple wanting to try cattle out cause i tell you if you enjoy it it will be all you want to do. you have to get experiance some where and maybe the only place is on your farm but i tell you what when them steers get out and they will i hope chasin them back in comes natural cause it isnt a matter of just open a gate and head them in that direction they will cut back and by the time your done you will be cussing and spittin. by all means though dont let any of this discourage you at all if its something you want to do it just reality that if your gonna have some cattle weither its a steer a momma cow or a bucket calf somewhere along the line there is liability (and alot of it in this sue happy world we live in) and more work than let them graze water and put out some mineral. if i was you my first priority would be fence. and once you got that done just plan on it not being good enough some where along the line. next i would honestly start with a bucket calves if you have no experiance just because of the fact that you can halter break it get it good and calm and used to chasing a bucket. this way when something happens you will have 2 of them that know you well and will be calmer when your trying to do something with them. but if ya have experiance with cattle and not just i watched my grandpa but real experiance get yourself couple yearlings put on grass for bit than feed out. but no experiance i would personally start with couple bucket calves than as they grow you will learn that there is more work than just feeding them and some bucket calves from start to finish will give ya some good slow learning experiance. :2cents: :2cents:

 

[Suzie Q]

To add to that, if you don't have them coming when you call and they get out then you need to be able to outrun them or forget it.

So you need a quad, a motorbike, a horse or a helicopter.

All of those can cause their own injuries of course and the one thing that kills the most farmers out of every single thing they use is a quad.

 

[DaveinMaryland]

No freaking way I'm investing in an ATV, it would take me 30 years of "free" beef to recoup that cost. But I did have a fear about just how I would recapture the steer. I envisioned myself looking like an idiot as I put a rope around a 500 pound cow and it refused to move.

There are never stray dogs in my area. Actually check that, mine is the only one that has gotten out. But that was when I trusted the invisible fence and before I put up an actual fence in the yard. I would use a hot wire for sure. I'd run 4 strands if I had to.