THE WORSE PRESIDENT

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la4angus

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The Worst President?
Liberals claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war.
They complain about his prosecution of it.
They point out that Iraq didn't attack the U.S. and we shouldn't
have went to war with them.
One liberal recently claimed Bush was the worst president in
U.S. history.

Most of these claims come from liberals in the Democratic party.
Being an Independent I decided to take a look at history and see
if using that criteria who else could be called the "worst" president.
FDR ( a democrat) led us into World War II against Germany, Italy, and Japan.
Neither Germany or Italy ever attacked us: Japan did.
From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year.
That's 1 Democratic President, 4 years and 450,000 American lives
Harry Truman (a democrat) finished that war and started one in Korea, North Korea never attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,333 per year.
That's 1 Democratic President, 3 years, and 55,000 American lives.
John F. Kennedy (a democrat) started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us.
Lyndon B. Johnson (a democrat) turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year. Finally in the 1970's Richard Nixon (a republican) pulled us out of
Vietnam.
That's 2 Democratic Presidents, 1 Republican President, 13 years, and 58,000 American lives.
Bill Clinton went to war in Bosnia WITHOUT UN or French consent, Bosnia never attacked us.
The Clinton administration was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.
In the two years since terrorists attacked us, President Bush has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Lybia, Iran and North Korea without firing
a shot, and captured Sadaam Hussein, who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.
We lost about 600 soldiers, an average of 200 a year. Bush did all this abroad while not allowing another terrorist attack at home.
That's 1 Republican President, 2 1/2 years, and about 600 American lives.
Then the Democrats complained about how long the war on terror is taking, but...
It took less time to take Iraq than it TOOK JANET RENO TO TAKE THE BRANCH DAVIDIAN C0MPOUND! THAT WAS A 51 DAY OPERATION!
We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for LESS TIME THAN IT TOOK HILLARY CLINTON TO LOCATE THE ROSE LAW
FIRM RECORDS IN HER OWN OFFICE!
It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took TED KENNEDY TO CALL THE POLICE AND GIVE HIMSELF UP AFTER HE HAD AN ACCIDENT WHILE
DRUNK AND SANK HIS OLDSMOBILE IN THE CHAPPAQUIDIK RIVER KILLING THE YOUNG LADY WHO WAS HIS PASSENGER!
And Finally...
IT TOOK LESS TIME FOR THE U.S. MILITARY TO TAKE IRAQ THAN IT DID TO COUNT THE VOTES IN FLORIDA IN 2000!!!!
But for some reason the Democrats didn't complain about how long any of that took! Hmmm.....
 
A

Anonymous

Ummmmmmmmm.......to clairify a bit of your history. WWII, Korean, Vietnam, and Bosnia wars had already begun before we got our nose into it. The last time we actually been to war (techinally) was WWII. FDR got congressional approval after Pearl harbor attacks.... Harry Truman didn't, JFK didn't, Clinton didn't, and as much as Bush thinks he did but he didn't either... he did get approval to attack Afghanistan because of a serious national security threat. Instead of poking our nose in Iraq, we should had sent our troops to a more vital place than Iraq: Afghanistan, Iran, and other holding cells of terrorist network. We should be training our men and women to different country and pinpoint the terrorist cells. There was one in Iraq but we could have been in and out of there in three months without losing very many lives. Still don't see why the war on Iraq has any link to the war on Terrorism. Do you? Has Saddam ever attack another country (beside Iran)? no. Has he sent any terrorists to kill Westerners? no. Has he used any of his WMD on other countries (besides Iran)? no. I am glad he is no longer the ruler of his country but we could've gotten rid of him by pinpointing his location by capture or be killed. It was not nessaccery for Bush to line up tanks, Bradleys, and bazookas along the Kuwait border then invade the country to kill thousands of innocents.... BTW, since Saddam has been captured, the killings has not subsided...yesterday four Americans were killed, dragged, hanged, and mulitated on the streets of Fallujah while the idiots dance and celebrates... How would you feel if these were your sons or daughters? You be plenty piss at the people and at King George. Think about that....
Did you know that Halliburton had a contract signed even before the first strike on Baghdad? I bet you didn't.......
Bush is the second worst President...the winner goes to Ronald Reagan...he was just as retarted as GW Bush. Reagan had a very good reason to be retarded; he had "Old Timers" diease (I can't spell the actual words). Did you know Reagan (I believe it was in 1981) had allowed a terrorist-hijacker go free without being captured? I believed he recently died thank goodness. Did you know Reagan was the first President to "create" homelessness.......no other Presidents had a problem with homelessness.... Now Presidents are trying to mend his problems. Did you know Reagan killed many Special Education programs to divert the funds for the drug rehab. programs. Now Voc. Rehabiliation is mending that problem too....many are now restricting many drug addicts from their programs. Did you know Reagan lowered the corporate taxes for the wealthy (as Bush has done). Did you know Reagan sent funds to sponsor the Libyans..in reality he was sponsoring the Libyan terrorists network. Did you know the Reagan adminstration HIRED bin Laden into their CIA program..... The education nearly crumbled under Reagan's reign. Old Man Bush and Clinton had to fix the problems.... The list goes on and on.

FDR is considered one of the favorites. He listened to the people when they said they didn't want to go to war in Germany. Bush has this problem of not listening to his public...we said no to the War on Iraq but he did it anyways..FDR listened. We were an isolatism country at the time.... Many, many jobs were created under all four of his terms. FDR pulled the country out of the Great Depression Social Security was created. Polio vaccinations were invented thanks for FDR pursuit to find a cure..he also invested thousands of dollars to find cure for other dieases. FDR was a good President, why do you think he served four terms (died on his fourth term)? He has done something good.....
These things I said are not drawls.....they are FACTS. Cold hard FACTS. Seems like we like the corrupt Presidents..... as people like the corrupt corporations like Tyco, Tyson, Enron, Martha Stewart Inc., and CAB. We fall for pitiful people like Reagan or Michael Jackson. People still cheer for Jackson even though he is a pedophile. Why is that? The excitement? You tell me.

PS I am a male.
 
A

Anonymous

Oregonian":1n0o0oam said:
Ummmmmmmmm.......to clairify a bit of your history. WWII, Korean, Vietnam, and Bosnia wars had already begun before we got our nose into it. The last time we actually been to war (techinally) was WWII. FDR got congressional approval after Pearl harbor attacks.... Harry Truman didn't, JFK didn't, Clinton didn't, and as much as Bush thinks he did but he didn't either... he did get approval to attack Afghanistan because of a serious national security threat. Instead of poking our nose in Iraq, we should had sent our troops to a more vital place than Iraq: Afghanistan, Iran, and other holding cells of terrorist network. We should be training our men and women to different country and pinpoint the terrorist cells. There was one in Iraq but we could have been in and out of there in three months without losing very many lives. Still don't see why the war on Iraq has any link to the war on Terrorism. Do you? Has Saddam ever attack another country (beside Iran)? no. Has he sent any terrorists to kill Westerners? no. Has he used any of his WMD on other countries (besides Iran)? no. I am glad he is no longer the ruler of his country but we could've gotten rid of him by pinpointing his location by capture or be killed. It was not nessaccery for Bush to line up tanks, Bradleys, and bazookas along the Kuwait border then invade the country to kill thousands of innocents.... BTW, since Saddam has been captured, the killings has not subsided...yesterday four Americans were killed, dragged, hanged, and mulitated on the streets of Fallujah while the idiots dance and celebrates... How would you feel if these were your sons or daughters? You be plenty piss at the people and at King George. Think about that....
Did you know that Halliburton had a contract signed even before the first strike on Baghdad? I bet you didn't.......
Bush is the second worst President...the winner goes to Ronald Reagan...he was just as retarted as GW Bush. Reagan had a very good reason to be retarded; he had "Old Timers" diease (I can't spell the actual words). Did you know Reagan (I believe it was in 1981) had allowed a terrorist-hijacker go free without being captured? I believed he recently died thank goodness. Did you know Reagan was the first President to "create" homelessness.......no other Presidents had a problem with homelessness.... Now Presidents are trying to mend his problems. Did you know Reagan killed many Special Education programs to divert the funds for the drug rehab. programs. Now Voc. Rehabiliation is mending that problem too....many are now restricting many drug addicts from their programs. Did you know Reagan lowered the corporate taxes for the wealthy (as Bush has done). Did you know Reagan sent funds to sponsor the Libyans..in reality he was sponsoring the Libyan terrorists network. Did you know the Reagan adminstration HIRED bin Laden into their CIA program..... The education nearly crumbled under Reagan's reign. Old Man Bush and Clinton had to fix the problems.... The list goes on and on.

FDR is considered one of the favorites. He listened to the people when they said they didn't want to go to war in Germany. Bush has this problem of not listening to his public...we said no to the War on Iraq but he did it anyways..FDR listened. We were an isolatism country at the time.... Many, many jobs were created under all four of his terms. FDR pulled the country out of the Great Depression Social Security was created. Polio vaccinations were invented thanks for FDR pursuit to find a cure..he also invested thousands of dollars to find cure for other dieases. FDR was a good President, why do you think he served four terms (died on his fourth term)? He has done something good.....
These things I said are not drawls.....they are FACTS. Cold hard FACTS. Seems like we like the corrupt Presidents..... as people like the corrupt corporations like Tyco, Tyson, Enron, Martha Stewart Inc., and CAB. We fall for pitiful people like Reagan or Michael Jackson. People still cheer for Jackson even though he is a pedophile. Why is that? The excitement? You tell me.

PS I am a male.

Why don't you tell all the people who fought in Korea, Vietam, Desert Storm, and Iraq, and while your at it all of the widows and family members of those who fought, that, well, it wasn't technically a war, so I guess they aren't veterans of war and shouldn't really ever go to the VFW. I have family members who fought in some of those "technically non-wars" and they can tell you that what they witnessed was war.

If there was at least one logical brain cell in your head, wouldn't you realize that if we knew where Saddam was, we would have gotten him earlier?
Yes, Saddam has attacked another country other than Iran. Why do you think we had to run him out of Kuwait?
Another thing, we don't have a draft in this country. If people sign up for the military it isn't like they don't know what they are getting into. When we had a poll on who should be the next president, Bush won fairly easy, and without a doubt, it would be even more lopsided.
You are probably one of those that are b*tching and moaning that the reconstruction of Iraq isn't going smoothly as planned. What would have happened if they waited until after taking over Iraq to find someone to rebuild it, would it be as far along as it is now? Highly unlikely.
"line up tanks, Bradleys, and bazookas along the Kuwait border then invade the country to kill thousands of innocents" Is this what you really think. You know, you are right we were just itching to kill a big bunch of civilians. Get real, you probably hear about every civilian that has been hurt or killed, and i doubt whether it is as many as you think.
Finally, if you think FDR was so great that he listened to his people who said they didn't want to go to war in Germany, why were we fighting Germans on their land??????????? Do you ever think logically before you type? I bet you don't. These are the FACTS. Cold Hard FACTS. And as you say,"Think about that!!!"
 
A

Anonymous

Anonymous":22vxxosk said:
Oregonian":22vxxosk said:
Ummmmmmmmm.......to clairify a bit of your history. WWII, Korean, Vietnam, and Bosnia wars had already begun before we got our nose into it. The last time we actually been to war (techinally) was WWII. FDR got congressional approval after Pearl harbor attacks.... Harry Truman didn't, JFK didn't, Clinton didn't, and as much as Bush thinks he did but he didn't either... he did get approval to attack Afghanistan because of a serious national security threat. Instead of poking our nose in Iraq, we should had sent our troops to a more vital place than Iraq: Afghanistan, Iran, and other holding cells of terrorist network. We should be training our men and women to different country and pinpoint the terrorist cells. There was one in Iraq but we could have been in and out of there in three months without losing very many lives. Still don't see why the war on Iraq has any link to the war on Terrorism. Do you? Has Saddam ever attack another country (beside Iran)? no. Has he sent any terrorists to kill Westerners? no. Has he used any of his WMD on other countries (besides Iran)? no. I am glad he is no longer the ruler of his country but we could've gotten rid of him by pinpointing his location by capture or be killed. It was not nessaccery for Bush to line up tanks, Bradleys, and bazookas along the Kuwait border then invade the country to kill thousands of innocents.... BTW, since Saddam has been captured, the killings has not subsided...yesterday four Americans were killed, dragged, hanged, and mulitated on the streets of Fallujah while the idiots dance and celebrates... How would you feel if these were your sons or daughters? You be plenty piss at the people and at King George. Think about that....
Did you know that Halliburton had a contract signed even before the first strike on Baghdad? I bet you didn't.......
Bush is the second worst President...the winner goes to Ronald Reagan...he was just as retarted as GW Bush. Reagan had a very good reason to be retarded; he had "Old Timers" diease (I can't spell the actual words). Did you know Reagan (I believe it was in 1981) had allowed a terrorist-hijacker go free without being captured? I believed he recently died thank goodness. Did you know Reagan was the first President to "create" homelessness.......no other Presidents had a problem with homelessness.... Now Presidents are trying to mend his problems. Did you know Reagan killed many Special Education programs to divert the funds for the drug rehab. programs. Now Voc. Rehabiliation is mending that problem too....many are now restricting many drug addicts from their programs. Did you know Reagan lowered the corporate taxes for the wealthy (as Bush has done). Did you know Reagan sent funds to sponsor the Libyans..in reality he was sponsoring the Libyan terrorists network. Did you know the Reagan adminstration HIRED bin Laden into their CIA program..... The education nearly crumbled under Reagan's reign. Old Man Bush and Clinton had to fix the problems.... The list goes on and on.

FDR is considered one of the favorites. He listened to the people when they said they didn't want to go to war in Germany. Bush has this problem of not listening to his public...we said no to the War on Iraq but he did it anyways..FDR listened. We were an isolatism country at the time.... Many, many jobs were created under all four of his terms. FDR pulled the country out of the Great Depression Social Security was created. Polio vaccinations were invented thanks for FDR pursuit to find a cure..he also invested thousands of dollars to find cure for other dieases. FDR was a good President, why do you think he served four terms (died on his fourth term)? He has done something good.....
These things I said are not drawls.....they are FACTS. Cold hard FACTS. Seems like we like the corrupt Presidents..... as people like the corrupt corporations like Tyco, Tyson, Enron, Martha Stewart Inc., and CAB. We fall for pitiful people like Reagan or Michael Jackson. People still cheer for Jackson even though he is a pedophile. Why is that? The excitement? You tell me.

PS I am a male.

Why don't you tell all the people who fought in Korea, Vietam, Desert Storm, and Iraq, and while your at it all of the widows and family members of those who fought, that, well, it wasn't technically a war, so I guess they aren't veterans of war and shouldn't really ever go to the VFW. I have family members who fought in some of those "technically non-wars" and they can tell you that what they witnessed was war.

If there was at least one logical brain cell in your head, wouldn't you realize that if we knew where Saddam was, we would have gotten him earlier?
Yes, Saddam has attacked another country other than Iran. Why do you think we had to run him out of Kuwait?
Another thing, we don't have a draft in this country. If people sign up for the military it isn't like they don't know what they are getting into. When we had a poll on who should be the next president, Bush won fairly easy, and without a doubt, it would be even more lopsided.
You are probably one of those that are b*tching and moaning that the reconstruction of Iraq isn't going smoothly as planned. What would have happened if they waited until after taking over Iraq to find someone to rebuild it, would it be as far along as it is now? Highly unlikely.
"line up tanks, Bradleys, and bazookas along the Kuwait border then invade the country to kill thousands of innocents" Is this what you really think. You know, you are right we were just itching to kill a big bunch of civilians. Get real, you probably hear about every civilian that has been hurt or killed, and i doubt whether it is as many as you think.
Finally, if you think FDR was so great that he listened to his people who said they didn't want to go to war in Germany, why were we fighting Germans on their land??????????? Do you ever think logically before you type? I bet you don't. These are the FACTS. Cold Hard FACTS. And as you say,"Think about that!!!"

Regarding the technicality of wars, I said Korea, Vietnam, and Desert Storm never got congressional approval by our government....but they were still wars all the same.

I have forgotten about Kuwait. I have forgotten about Kuwait because I forgotten about Iraq War #1. Finding Saddam wasn't hard to do. He spend a great deal of time hiding in his palaces...

We fought the Germans in their land because the war is there...you go where the war is. I know Japan is the one attacked us but Hitler and his Nazis were the ones who started the war. We took care of Japan after we took care of the Germans... Hitler did a smart move by leaving Earth quite suddently with his married cousin. FDR did do one very stupid thing by dropping those atomic bombs. It didn't accomplished anything except thousands of dead bodies. Before the bombs were dropped, Japan were im prepartion to throw up the white flag. FDR grew too impatience....he should've waited another week. The war would've ended with less bloodshed. ::moving the spotlights::
 

Campground Cattle

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FDR was dead Truman dropped the Bomb I don't even know why I read your Idiotic post and won't after this. The Bomb saved aprox. one million lives . Apparently your lack of learin applies to history,economics as well as cattle. Your like a little feist dog you bark just to feel your a**hole wiggle.
 

WORANCH

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Oregonian":1ptbrwmb said:
Anonymous":1ptbrwmb said:
Oregonian":1ptbrwmb said:
Ummmmmmmmm.......to clairify a bit of your history. WWII, Korean, Vietnam, and Bosnia wars had already begun before we got our nose into it. The last time we actually been to war (techinally) was WWII. FDR got congressional approval after Pearl harbor attacks.... Harry Truman didn't, JFK didn't, Clinton didn't, and as much as Bush thinks he did but he didn't either... he did get approval to attack Afghanistan because of a serious national security threat. Instead of poking our nose in Iraq, we should had sent our troops to a more vital place than Iraq: Afghanistan, Iran, and other holding cells of terrorist network. We should be training our men and women to different country and pinpoint the terrorist cells. There was one in Iraq but we could have been in and out of there in three months without losing very many lives. Still don't see why the war on Iraq has any link to the war on Terrorism. Do you? Has Saddam ever attack another country (beside Iran)? no. Has he sent any terrorists to kill Westerners? no. Has he used any of his WMD on other countries (besides Iran)? no. I am glad he is no longer the ruler of his country but we could've gotten rid of him by pinpointing his location by capture or be killed. It was not nessaccery for Bush to line up tanks, Bradleys, and bazookas along the Kuwait border then invade the country to kill thousands of innocents.... BTW, since Saddam has been captured, the killings has not subsided...yesterday four Americans were killed, dragged, hanged, and mulitated on the streets of Fallujah while the idiots dance and celebrates... How would you feel if these were your sons or daughters? You be plenty piss at the people and at King George. Think about that....
Did you know that Halliburton had a contract signed even before the first strike on Baghdad? I bet you didn't.......
Bush is the second worst President...the winner goes to Ronald Reagan...he was just as retarted as GW Bush. Reagan had a very good reason to be retarded; he had "Old Timers" diease (I can't spell the actual words). Did you know Reagan (I believe it was in 1981) had allowed a terrorist-hijacker go free without being captured? I believed he recently died thank goodness. Did you know Reagan was the first President to "create" homelessness.......no other Presidents had a problem with homelessness.... Now Presidents are trying to mend his problems. Did you know Reagan killed many Special Education programs to divert the funds for the drug rehab. programs. Now Voc. Rehabiliation is mending that problem too....many are now restricting many drug addicts from their programs. Did you know Reagan lowered the corporate taxes for the wealthy (as Bush has done). Did you know Reagan sent funds to sponsor the Libyans..in reality he was sponsoring the Libyan terrorists network. Did you know the Reagan adminstration HIRED bin Laden into their CIA program..... The education nearly crumbled under Reagan's reign. Old Man Bush and Clinton had to fix the problems.... The list goes on and on.

FDR is considered one of the favorites. He listened to the people when they said they didn't want to go to war in Germany. Bush has this problem of not listening to his public...we said no to the War on Iraq but he did it anyways..FDR listened. We were an isolatism country at the time.... Many, many jobs were created under all four of his terms. FDR pulled the country out of the Great Depression Social Security was created. Polio vaccinations were invented thanks for FDR pursuit to find a cure..he also invested thousands of dollars to find cure for other dieases. FDR was a good President, why do you think he served four terms (died on his fourth term)? He has done something good.....
These things I said are not drawls.....they are FACTS. Cold hard FACTS. Seems like we like the corrupt Presidents..... as people like the corrupt corporations like Tyco, Tyson, Enron, Martha Stewart Inc., and CAB. We fall for pitiful people like Reagan or Michael Jackson. People still cheer for Jackson even though he is a pedophile. Why is that? The excitement? You tell me.

PS I am a male.

Why don't you tell all the people who fought in Korea, Vietam, Desert Storm, and Iraq, and while your at it all of the widows and family members of those who fought, that, well, it wasn't technically a war, so I guess they aren't veterans of war and shouldn't really ever go to the VFW. I have family members who fought in some of those "technically non-wars" and they can tell you that what they witnessed was war.

If there was at least one logical brain cell in your head, wouldn't you realize that if we knew where Saddam was, we would have gotten him earlier?
Yes, Saddam has attacked another country other than Iran. Why do you think we had to run him out of Kuwait?
Another thing, we don't have a draft in this country. If people sign up for the military it isn't like they don't know what they are getting into. When we had a poll on who should be the next president, Bush won fairly easy, and without a doubt, it would be even more lopsided.
You are probably one of those that are b*tching and moaning that the reconstruction of Iraq isn't going smoothly as planned. What would have happened if they waited until after taking over Iraq to find someone to rebuild it, would it be as far along as it is now? Highly unlikely.
"line up tanks, Bradleys, and bazookas along the Kuwait border then invade the country to kill thousands of innocents" Is this what you really think. You know, you are right we were just itching to kill a big bunch of civilians. Get real, you probably hear about every civilian that has been hurt or killed, and i doubt whether it is as many as you think.
Finally, if you think FDR was so great that he listened to his people who said they didn't want to go to war in Germany, why were we fighting Germans on their land??????????? Do you ever think logically before you type? I bet you don't. These are the FACTS. Cold Hard FACTS. And as you say,"Think about that!!!"

Regarding the technicality of wars, I said Korea, Vietnam, and Desert Storm never got congressional approval by our government....but they were still wars all the same.

I have forgotten about Kuwait. I have forgotten about Kuwait because I forgotten about Iraq War #1. Finding Saddam wasn't hard to do. He spend a great deal of time hiding in his palaces...

We fought the Germans in their land because the war is there...you go where the war is. I know Japan is the one attacked us but Hitler and his Nazis were the ones who started the war. We took care of Japan after we took care of the Germans... Hitler did a smart move by leaving Earth quite suddently with his married cousin. FDR did do one very stupid thing by dropping those atomic bombs. It didn't accomplished anything except thousands of dead bodies. Before the bombs were dropped, Japan were im prepartion to throw up the white flag. FDR grew too impatience....he should've waited another week. The war would've ended with less bloodshed. ::moving the spotlights::



Oregoian

you know little about cattle and less about history :roll:
 

WORANCH

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Oregonian":c4o8pp4q said:
Anonymous":c4o8pp4q said:
Oregonian":c4o8pp4q said:
Ummmmmmmmm.......to clairify a bit of your history. WWII, Korean, Vietnam, and Bosnia wars had already begun before we got our nose into it. The last time we actually been to war (techinally) was WWII. FDR got congressional approval after Pearl harbor attacks.... Harry Truman didn't, JFK didn't, Clinton didn't, and as much as Bush thinks he did but he didn't either... he did get approval to attack Afghanistan because of a serious national security threat. Instead of poking our nose in Iraq, we should had sent our troops to a more vital place than Iraq: Afghanistan, Iran, and other holding cells of terrorist network. We should be training our men and women to different country and pinpoint the terrorist cells. There was one in Iraq but we could have been in and out of there in three months without losing very many lives. Still don't see why the war on Iraq has any link to the war on Terrorism. Do you? Has Saddam ever attack another country (beside Iran)? no. Has he sent any terrorists to kill Westerners? no. Has he used any of his WMD on other countries (besides Iran)? no. I am glad he is no longer the ruler of his country but we could've gotten rid of him by pinpointing his location by capture or be killed. It was not nessaccery for Bush to line up tanks, Bradleys, and bazookas along the Kuwait border then invade the country to kill thousands of innocents.... BTW, since Saddam has been captured, the killings has not subsided...yesterday four Americans were killed, dragged, hanged, and mulitated on the streets of Fallujah while the idiots dance and celebrates... How would you feel if these were your sons or daughters? You be plenty piss at the people and at King George. Think about that....
Did you know that Halliburton had a contract signed even before the first strike on Baghdad? I bet you didn't.......
Bush is the second worst President...the winner goes to Ronald Reagan...he was just as retarted as GW Bush. Reagan had a very good reason to be retarded; he had "Old Timers" diease (I can't spell the actual words). Did you know Reagan (I believe it was in 1981) had allowed a terrorist-hijacker go free without being captured? I believed he recently died thank goodness. Did you know Reagan was the first President to "create" homelessness.......no other Presidents had a problem with homelessness.... Now Presidents are trying to mend his problems. Did you know Reagan killed many Special Education programs to divert the funds for the drug rehab. programs. Now Voc. Rehabiliation is mending that problem too....many are now restricting many drug addicts from their programs. Did you know Reagan lowered the corporate taxes for the wealthy (as Bush has done). Did you know Reagan sent funds to sponsor the Libyans..in reality he was sponsoring the Libyan terrorists network. Did you know the Reagan adminstration HIRED bin Laden into their CIA program..... The education nearly crumbled under Reagan's reign. Old Man Bush and Clinton had to fix the problems.... The list goes on and on.

FDR is considered one of the favorites. He listened to the people when they said they didn't want to go to war in Germany. Bush has this problem of not listening to his public...we said no to the War on Iraq but he did it anyways..FDR listened. We were an isolatism country at the time.... Many, many jobs were created under all four of his terms. FDR pulled the country out of the Great Depression Social Security was created. Polio vaccinations were invented thanks for FDR pursuit to find a cure..he also invested thousands of dollars to find cure for other dieases. FDR was a good President, why do you think he served four terms (died on his fourth term)? He has done something good.....
These things I said are not drawls.....they are FACTS. Cold hard FACTS. Seems like we like the corrupt Presidents..... as people like the corrupt corporations like Tyco, Tyson, Enron, Martha Stewart Inc., and CAB. We fall for pitiful people like Reagan or Michael Jackson. People still cheer for Jackson even though he is a pedophile. Why is that? The excitement? You tell me.

PS I am a male.

Why don't you tell all the people who fought in Korea, Vietam, Desert Storm, and Iraq, and while your at it all of the widows and family members of those who fought, that, well, it wasn't technically a war, so I guess they aren't veterans of war and shouldn't really ever go to the VFW. I have family members who fought in some of those "technically non-wars" and they can tell you that what they witnessed was war.

If there was at least one logical brain cell in your head, wouldn't you realize that if we knew where Saddam was, we would have gotten him earlier?
Yes, Saddam has attacked another country other than Iran. Why do you think we had to run him out of Kuwait?
Another thing, we don't have a draft in this country. If people sign up for the military it isn't like they don't know what they are getting into. When we had a poll on who should be the next president, Bush won fairly easy, and without a doubt, it would be even more lopsided.
You are probably one of those that are b*tching and moaning that the reconstruction of Iraq isn't going smoothly as planned. What would have happened if they waited until after taking over Iraq to find someone to rebuild it, would it be as far along as it is now? Highly unlikely.
"line up tanks, Bradleys, and bazookas along the Kuwait border then invade the country to kill thousands of innocents" Is this what you really think. You know, you are right we were just itching to kill a big bunch of civilians. Get real, you probably hear about every civilian that has been hurt or killed, and i doubt whether it is as many as you think.
Finally, if you think FDR was so great that he listened to his people who said they didn't want to go to war in Germany, why were we fighting Germans on their land??????????? Do you ever think logically before you type? I bet you don't. These are the FACTS. Cold Hard FACTS. And as you say,"Think about that!!!"

Regarding the technicality of wars, I said Korea, Vietnam, and Desert Storm never got congressional approval by our government....but they were still wars all the same.

I have forgotten about Kuwait. I have forgotten about Kuwait because I forgotten about Iraq War #1. Finding Saddam wasn't hard to do. He spend a great deal of time hiding in his palaces...

We fought the Germans in their land because the war is there...you go where the war is. I know Japan is the one attacked us but Hitler and his Nazis were the ones who started the war. We took care of Japan after we took care of the Germans... Hitler did a smart move by leaving Earth quite suddently with his married cousin. FDR did do one very stupid thing by dropping those atomic bombs. It didn't accomplished anything except thousands of dead bodies. Before the bombs were dropped, Japan were im prepartion to throw up the white flag. FDR grew too impatience....he should've waited another week. The war would've ended with less bloodshed. ::moving the spotlights::



Oregoian

you know little about cattle and less about history :roll:
 

D.R. Cattle

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My grandfather was a gunner on B17's stationed in England during WW2. He was always a a very frugal and modest person and couldn't stand the Democratic way of thinking. He believed it was the governments job to secure us at all costs, and it was our job to WORK for a living, not the welfare system. I know he'd be pretty dissappointed to hear some of this jibberish about staying away from foreign security threats and worrying more about gay marriage and gun control. Just my 2 cents in lieu of an old soldier laid to rest.
 
A

Anonymous

True.......Truman was the one who authorized the dropping of the bombs. I do know my history well...just got mixed up with the years. We all do this from time to time. How did you concluded that we saved millions of lives by dropping the atomic bombs? We ended up killing thousands more than we needed to. All documents has proven that dropping the atomic bombs on Japan was not neccassary..the Japanese has surrender even before the bombs dropped even though Truman was not aware of the surrender........yet. Give or take a week, the Japanese would had thrown the white flag. Why didn't they show signs of surrendering before the bombs is something of a mystery...Probably a miscommunication between Truman and the emperor of Japan. WHo knows?
All this comparative thinking is giving me a headache, lets talk about something else.
 

tfosterjr

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FDR gave us Social Security and Welfare, WWII brought us out of the Depression, we are stilll trying to recover from the other two. Anyone who thinks that the people exist for the benefit of the government is an idiot. No one should pay taxes to support another individual, if I wanted to support you I would petition the court to become your legal guardian. The entire reason for the continued existence of the welfare program is to create a class of people who are totally dependant on the government. If you feel like you owe the government something it is easier for them to take away your freedoms and get you to conform to their way of thinking.
 
A

Anonymous

I was born while FDR was President. During my lifetime LBJ was the most damaging by far. He managed to tear our nation's unity to shreds with the Vietnam war. His Great Society welfare program encouraged the poor to stay poor for two generations. Only Bill Clinton had the guts and political ability to reform this decades old welfare program. And most US citizens have been born after LBJ left office, so we are slowly healing from the effects of the Vietnam war.

Jimmy Carter is second. He was/is naive beyond belief. His economic policies gave us raging inflation and 22% interest rates and his foreign policy was based on "I know they will do what's right". :roll:
 

Campground Cattle

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World War II in the Pacific
Operation Downfall
The Invasion of Japan
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Operation DOWNFALL, the invasion of Japan, was in two components scheduled for the Fall and Spring of 1945-46:

Operation OLYMPIC, Nov 1, 1945, after the hurricane season, before winter. General Krueger, Sixth Army, with nine divisions (3 more in reserve) was to invade three beaches in southern Kyushu, the southern-most of the four Japanese home islands. This was to became a giant airbase to support the next invasion phase in the Spring of 1946. The Japanese had correctly predicted our invasion point and had reinforced Kyushu threefold over initial US expectations.

Operation CORONET, March 1, 1946, of Honshu, the main island, with 22 divisions in the Spring after air fields on Kyushu allowed landbased air support. There were to be two prongs:
General Hodges, with the 1st Army to land east of Tokyo, clear the peninsula, establish air fields, land tank divisions transferred from European, about 30 days, then charge across the plains to take the capital.
Ten days after the initial landing, LtGen Eichelberger with 8th Army was to attack west of Yokohama, Tokyo's seaport, open Tokyo Bay and block any reinforcement of Tokyo.

U.S. PREPARATIONS
The previous phase of the war had been the capture of the Marshalls --Saipan, Tinian and the US island of Guam during June, July and Aug 1944. These were captured to provide air fields within the effective range of B-29 Superfortress, very heavy bombers. Previous attempts to fly B-29s from inland China could only reach the southern portions of Japan with minimal bomb loads and required an impossible to maintain rate of logistics. B-29 attacks started in November 1944, by March 1945, Tokyo, Osaka and other industrial cities had been bombed
Iwo Jima was taken in Feb-March 1945 to provide an intermediate airstrip for damaged B-29s, for fighter escorts, and for shorter ranged B-24 Liberator heavy bombers. Air attack was ratcheted up to 300 plane raids and the attack method changed from explosives to incendiary in which 15% of Tokyo was destroyed in the first raid.1
Air dropped mining began in March 1945 in the Shimonoseki Straight, separating Kyushu and Honshu, to isolate the invasion island. Over 120 ships succumb to these mines.
Submarine efforts were concentrated in the Sea of Japan, on the northwest coast, while carrier task forces concentrated on the Pacific Ocean side.
Preparation for the invasion began with the Okinawa campaign. This is the largest island in the Ryukuyu Islands, the chain nearest to Japan. The native Okinawans were of Chinese extraction but had been an independent kingdom for 800 years until Japan invaded in 1875. Annexed, they continued a race apart, looked down upon my Japanese.2

Carrier Task Forces. The first strike on Japan's home islands was the period 18-22March 1945 to disrupt attacks on our invasion fleet as it approached Okinawa. Raids by 11 fleet carriers and 6 light carriers destroyed aircraft such that the Japanese air attacks on Okinawa were delayed until 6 days after the landings.
Remnants of the Imperial Navy were destroyed in their yards at Kure (near Hiroshima) on the main island of Honshu during early July.
Two fleets were to participate in Olympic: The Strike fleet with 21 carriers, 10 fast battleships and their train. The Assault fleet had 1,500 transports and 800 warships including 26 carriers and 13 battleships.

Operation Zipper by Lord Mountbatten's southeast Asia command was to take Singapore and the Malay Peninsula about 1Sept45. Also, the US China theater was planning to take the Liuchow Peninsula, west of Hong Kong, in mid-August as a port to supply China.

JAPANESE DEFENSES

Troops. Japan was scrapping the bottom of a big barrel. Two million new recruits were called up and experienced Armies was brought back from China and Manchuria to defend the homeland.

Kamikaze. Numbers of about 2000 Navy and 3500 Army airplanes have been cited as available for the defense, and of course, preparations would have continued with 500 mini-subs under construction, specially designed aircraft build, motor boat and manned torpedo stations established. Japanese military was committed to and was convinced they could repel the initial assault. That we might make as second assault was too much to consider. 1,465 Kamikaze had attacked at Okinawa, 400 miles away, had sunk or damaged 250 warships. A ratio of 1 hit per 6 attempts. Troopships sailing into waters adjacent to Japan, they thought, didn't stand a chance. US planners estimated 250 hits; Japanese planners expected 480 ships sunk. See suicide page for a range of special attack (suicide) weapons used by the Japanese.

Expected casualties. By this stage in the war, the overwhelming American material condition had reduced the ratio of American killed vs. enemy. The assault by Pacific trained Army troops from the Philippine Campaign and combat hardened Marines lessened the expected causalities on the American side. Conversely, first rate Japanese troops with pre-war combat experience in China -- which had made the initial conquests in the Pacific against inexperienced Allied troops -- had mostly been killed. The combat trained troops in China had been replaced with secondary troops -- these now experienced troops were recalled to defend the home islands. These troops had never been exposed in China to the massive air attacks that were now normal operations from US land and sea forces. Japan's naval ships had been destroyed. Japan had never had an adequate new pilot training program. Industrial resupply was dramatically weakened with every war facility destroyed as soon as it was discover by American air reconnaissance. Raw materials had been cut off as the merchant marine was destroyed by American submarines and aircraft.

Usually omitted from the statistics, however, because the atomic bomb was a secret, is the 300,000 white slave laborers held by Japan. Most of these were to be executed if the invasion had happened. The appearance of the atomic bomb brought such a sudden end to the war, that these lives were saved, along with the expected military casualties of both sides and massive numbers of Japanese civilian population either participating in the defense or as collateral damage.

Prospects of Operation Olympic. Japan fully expected to be able to repel the first landing with the help of suicide tactics. As shown at Normandy, the Americans expected to overpower all in their way. The U.S. expected to have air superiority, which places an imposition on the defense. The Navy expected to interdict all movements of resupply and reinforcement.
Best guess, the attack would be a repeat of "bloody Omaha beach" with a successful American landing. The plan called for sealing the mountains rather than fighting an Okinawa type campaign. The goal of establishing air bases would proceed as an American specialty. There would be continued casualties, but the goal accomplished.

CORONET . With American aircraft numbers measured in the 5-digits by aircraft type, and Japan's total aircraft numbers measured in the 4-digits, possibly 3-or 2-digits after Olympic, it is inconceivable why Coronet should happen. Japan could be allowed to suffocate under a siege with sea and air attack. No item of military importance would exist within 10 miles of the shore or any item that could be seen from the air. However, if Japan had persisted, it could only be because of great resistance at Kyushu. The momentum of war would have followed the plan. Invasion of Honshu would have been brutal with total destruction of every square yard before the troops and ruthless combat. The atomic bomb not only saved many Japanese lives, it may have saved the nation. With surrender, the occupying troops could be magnanimous in the American manner. If they had to fight fanatical resistance, they would have been compelled to destroy everything in sight as a potential military threat.
 

Craig-TX

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Campground Cattle":1ptvhep8 said:
FDR was dead Truman dropped the Bomb I don't even know why I read your Idiotic post and won't after this. The Bomb saved aprox. one million lives . Apparently your lack of learin applies to history,economics as well as cattle. Your like a little feist dog you bark just to feel your a**hole wiggle.

Not only was that 100% true, it was 100% funny.

Craig-TX
 

sillco

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Campground Cattle":a3vld94t said:
World War II in the Pacific
Operation Downfall
The Invasion of Japan
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Operation DOWNFALL, the invasion of Japan, was in two components scheduled for the Fall and Spring of 1945-46:

Operation OLYMPIC, Nov 1, 1945, after the hurricane season, before winter. General Krueger, Sixth Army, with nine divisions (3 more in reserve) was to invade three beaches in southern Kyushu, the southern-most of the four Japanese home islands. This was to became a giant airbase to support the next invasion phase in the Spring of 1946. The Japanese had correctly predicted our invasion point and had reinforced Kyushu threefold over initial US expectations.

Operation CORONET, March 1, 1946, of Honshu, the main island, with 22 divisions in the Spring after air fields on Kyushu allowed landbased air support. There were to be two prongs:
General Hodges, with the 1st Army to land east of Tokyo, clear the peninsula, establish air fields, land tank divisions transferred from European, about 30 days, then charge across the plains to take the capital.
Ten days after the initial landing, LtGen Eichelberger with 8th Army was to attack west of Yokohama, Tokyo's seaport, open Tokyo Bay and block any reinforcement of Tokyo.

U.S. PREPARATIONS
The previous phase of the war had been the capture of the Marshalls --Saipan, Tinian and the US island of Guam during June, July and Aug 1944. These were captured to provide air fields within the effective range of B-29 Superfortress, very heavy bombers. Previous attempts to fly B-29s from inland China could only reach the southern portions of Japan with minimal bomb loads and required an impossible to maintain rate of logistics. B-29 attacks started in November 1944, by March 1945, Tokyo, Osaka and other industrial cities had been bombed
Iwo Jima was taken in Feb-March 1945 to provide an intermediate airstrip for damaged B-29s, for fighter escorts, and for shorter ranged B-24 Liberator heavy bombers. Air attack was ratcheted up to 300 plane raids and the attack method changed from explosives to incendiary in which 15% of Tokyo was destroyed in the first raid.1
Air dropped mining began in March 1945 in the Shimonoseki Straight, separating Kyushu and Honshu, to isolate the invasion island. Over 120 ships succumb to these mines.
Submarine efforts were concentrated in the Sea of Japan, on the northwest coast, while carrier task forces concentrated on the Pacific Ocean side.
Preparation for the invasion began with the Okinawa campaign. This is the largest island in the Ryukuyu Islands, the chain nearest to Japan. The native Okinawans were of Chinese extraction but had been an independent kingdom for 800 years until Japan invaded in 1875. Annexed, they continued a race apart, looked down upon my Japanese.2

Carrier Task Forces. The first strike on Japan's home islands was the period 18-22March 1945 to disrupt attacks on our invasion fleet as it approached Okinawa. Raids by 11 fleet carriers and 6 light carriers destroyed aircraft such that the Japanese air attacks on Okinawa were delayed until 6 days after the landings.
Remnants of the Imperial Navy were destroyed in their yards at Kure (near Hiroshima) on the main island of Honshu during early July.
Two fleets were to participate in Olympic: The Strike fleet with 21 carriers, 10 fast battleships and their train. The Assault fleet had 1,500 transports and 800 warships including 26 carriers and 13 battleships.

Operation Zipper by Lord Mountbatten's southeast Asia command was to take Singapore and the Malay Peninsula about 1Sept45. Also, the US China theater was planning to take the Liuchow Peninsula, west of Hong Kong, in mid-August as a port to supply China.

JAPANESE DEFENSES

Troops. Japan was scrapping the bottom of a big barrel. Two million new recruits were called up and experienced Armies was brought back from China and Manchuria to defend the homeland.

Kamikaze. Numbers of about 2000 Navy and 3500 Army airplanes have been cited as available for the defense, and of course, preparations would have continued with 500 mini-subs under construction, specially designed aircraft build, motor boat and manned torpedo stations established. Japanese military was committed to and was convinced they could repel the initial assault. That we might make as second assault was too much to consider. 1,465 Kamikaze had attacked at Okinawa, 400 miles away, had sunk or damaged 250 warships. A ratio of 1 hit per 6 attempts. Troopships sailing into waters adjacent to Japan, they thought, didn't stand a chance. US planners estimated 250 hits; Japanese planners expected 480 ships sunk. See suicide page for a range of special attack (suicide) weapons used by the Japanese.

Expected casualties. By this stage in the war, the overwhelming American material condition had reduced the ratio of American killed vs. enemy. The assault by Pacific trained Army troops from the Philippine Campaign and combat hardened Marines lessened the expected causalities on the American side. Conversely, first rate Japanese troops with pre-war combat experience in China -- which had made the initial conquests in the Pacific against inexperienced Allied troops -- had mostly been killed. The combat trained troops in China had been replaced with secondary troops -- these now experienced troops were recalled to defend the home islands. These troops had never been exposed in China to the massive air attacks that were now normal operations from US land and sea forces. Japan's naval ships had been destroyed. Japan had never had an adequate new pilot training program. Industrial resupply was dramatically weakened with every war facility destroyed as soon as it was discover by American air reconnaissance. Raw materials had been cut off as the merchant marine was destroyed by American submarines and aircraft.

Usually omitted from the statistics, however, because the atomic bomb was a secret, is the 300,000 white slave laborers held by Japan. Most of these were to be executed if the invasion had happened. The appearance of the atomic bomb brought such a sudden end to the war, that these lives were saved, along with the expected military casualties of both sides and massive numbers of Japanese civilian population either participating in the defense or as collateral damage.

Prospects of Operation Olympic. Japan fully expected to be able to repel the first landing with the help of suicide tactics. As shown at Normandy, the Americans expected to overpower all in their way. The U.S. expected to have air superiority, which places an imposition on the defense. The Navy expected to interdict all movements of resupply and reinforcement.
Best guess, the attack would be a repeat of "bloody Omaha beach" with a successful American landing. The plan called for sealing the mountains rather than fighting an Okinawa type campaign. The goal of establishing air bases would proceed as an American specialty. There would be continued casualties, but the goal accomplished.

CORONET . With American aircraft numbers measured in the 5-digits by aircraft type, and Japan's total aircraft numbers measured in the 4-digits, possibly 3-or 2-digits after Olympic, it is inconceivable why Coronet should happen. Japan could be allowed to suffocate under a siege with sea and air attack. No item of military importance would exist within 10 miles of the shore or any item that could be seen from the air. However, if Japan had persisted, it could only be because of great resistance at Kyushu. The momentum of war would have followed the plan. Invasion of Honshu would have been brutal with total destruction of every square yard before the troops and ruthless combat. The atomic bomb not only saved many Japanese lives, it may have saved the nation. With surrender, the occupying troops could be magnanimous in the American manner. If they had to fight fanatical resistance, they would have been compelled to destroy everything in sight as a potential military threat.

Outstanding over view.

I suggest that anybody that doesn't think we should have not dopped the bomb on Japan go to the "Punch Bowl National Cementary" in Honolulu, Hawaii and see the names of the dead U.S. solders, sailors and marines killed in world war II which outnumber all loses in the other foreign wars combined. The war had gone on for over five years and the American people wanted it to end. Hate had developed for our enemies by the people of this nation and the bomb was the answer to quickly end the war. One had to have been here to fully understand the feeling and desperation the people of this country felt having lost so many young men and women that were brothers, sisters fathers and mothers. No one went untouched by that war. World War II had to be fought and won for the world to survive.
 

bitt

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This is a touchy subject. But I will have to say
This country has done what it to do to preserve
our freedom. Just my opinion. I'm only 33 years old
but I've been around. If you've served you understand.
There is nothing nothing worse than an ungrateful welcoming
commity after serving FOUR YEARS IN DESSERT STORM!!
On another note I don't care for peaple talking down the dead!
MAYBE IT'S JUST THE WAY I WAS RAISED!! (THANK GOD)


BITT
 
A

Anonymous

I vote for Jimmy Carter. He, in addition to what was already said, gave the Panama Canal away (Now controlled by China), brought over 200,000 criminals into the US from Cuba, and saw to it that gasoline became unavailable in the country. Jimmy is excellent with the Habitat organization...That is what he should have done all along!
 

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