Stealth Estrus Cattle

[inyati13]

I bred a cow AI yesterday that was in "stealth" estrus. She was about 80 days postpartum. I had not seen her cycle. I gave her a shot of Lut on Saturday morning. 5 mL in the back of the thigh. Yesterday, I saw her put her head up in an attempted mount. The other cow moved and nothing else pursued. Kept her and a couple others up at the shop area all day and watched. Only a couple more incidents of bulling behavior. Nothing you could really make any decisions on. But here is what was evident. When she laid down, her vulva was so loose, it gapped open. It was bright pink and moist. I massaged her clitoris and almost immediately, there was a clear mucus discharge. These secondary signs are all I had to go on. I waited long enough. At 3:30 pm, I put her in the chute, prepared my gun and walked out to the chute. I caught her head, put a 2x4 behind her legs, stepped behind her and in less than 20 seconds I was done. Good easy cervix and the gun went in easy. Maybe the easiest cervix to thread I have done in my short time at this. I could feel both horns of the uterus. I put the tip just at the point of separation and deposited the semen.

Now, I sit and wonder where I was with regard to her cycle. Too late. Too early. ???????

 

[dun]

When I've had those types in the past , I bred based on the mucus color and consistancy. Now I do the same but give a shot of GnRH when I AI.

 

[inyati13]

Thanks dun. I just now looked at that cow. Her vulva has already gone back to normal non-estrus characteristics. She is clearly out of estrus. If anything, I would have been late but that is speculation. I should have mentioned that she was chalked and there was some disturbance but no more than I see from licking and rubbing. That chalk can be difficult to make decisions on this time of year. The cows are finishing their shedding and they get in shade where trees rub their tailhead.

 

[dun]

Out of standing heat is still the desireable time to AI.
http://www.agserver.net/windyridge/OTHER/heat-chart.jpg

 

[branguscowgirl]

Good chart Dun, thank you for posting it!
Inyati, if her cervix was wide open, you were definitely not too late it sounds.

 

[inyati13]

Good chart Dun, thank you for posting it!
Inyati, if her cervix was wide open, you were definitely not too late it sounds.

Tell me more. I know a little about the stages of the cervix during the cycle but would like to hear it again. It was definitely easy to get through.

 

[branguscowgirl]

Good chart Dun, thank you for posting it!
Inyati, if her cervix was wide open, you were definitely not too late it sounds.

Tell me more. I know a little about the stages of the cervix during the cycle but would like to hear it again. It was definitely easy to get through.

I do not do my own AI, but I am assisting my vet when he does. So I know that the cervix gets softer and begins to open during estrus. As they are going out of estrus it begins to close tighter and returns to "normal" non-heat firmness and size.
For obvious reasons......It opens to except the bull, narrows to protect from infection to the the embryo/reproductive tract.

When my vet or AI tech gets into the cervix they can tell immediately if the cow if fully in heat (with an open cervix) or if they are going out, beginning to, or closed. Guess it takes practice to know the feeling in there. It also helps to know the cow. I have heard that some cows that have had a lot of calves can have some scaring and variations in there. But it is always obvious to the person with their hand in there, when they are too late. Cervix is tight, not "easy."

 

[Putangitangi]

Ron we'll expect the update in three weeks: yes or no!

I always remember the one I bred on the twitch of an ear. That was the only sign I saw to start with, couldn't get anyone else to take any interest in her. She probably sniffed others when I got her near them, can't recall, but she got in calf when I did her about six hours after the alert look and the ear movement.

 

[cow pollinater]

This time of year about a third of what I breed is on educated guesses. Next month it will go up to half. My summer conception rates and pregnancy rates as well as accurate vet checks say I'm guessing right and sometimes that's the best you can do.

 

[Koffi Babone]

Are you familiar with the Ovsynch protocol (7-2-1)?

http://www.ansci.wisc.edu/jjp1/ansci_re ... vsynch.htm

@ day 1: GnRH
@ day 7: Estrumate or Lutalyse
@ 48 hrs later: GnRH
@ 12-16 hrs later : AI

 

[dun]

I use a simpler method. We have one heifer that was cycling normally all winter, come April she stopped (or we stopped seeing it). Day 1 GnRH, day & Lutelyse, breed on normal heat 2-3 days later.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Out of standing heat is still the desireable time to AI.
http://www.agserver.net/windyridge/OTHER/heat-chart.jpg

Used to be enough cattle around here that the AI techs made 2 rounds per day. Now just one round per day.
So they usually breed anything that is standing, even if it is a bit early. Conceptions rates aren't the greatest - - typically 50 to 60 %.
Any suggestions here?

 

[dun]

Out of standing heat is still the desireable time to AI.
http://www.agserver.net/windyridge/OTHER/heat-chart.jpg

Used to be enough cattle around here that the AI techs made 2 rounds per day. Now just one round per day.
So they usually breed anything that is standing, even if it is a bit early. Conceptions rates aren't the greatest - - typically 50 to 60 %.
Any suggestions here?

Learn to AI and do it yourself
Or always give GnRH at AI time

 

[Stocker Steve]

Any suggestions here?

Learn to AI and do it yourself Or always give GnRH at AI time

Plan to do AI in the future, but still working out.
Does GnRH spur ovulation or ?

 

[dun]

Any suggestions here?

Learn to AI and do it yourself Or always give GnRH at AI time

Plan to do AI in the future, but still working out.
Does GnRH spur ovulation or ?

Yes

 

[Koffi Babone]

Forgot to mention, DO NOT use Ovsynch in this particular case (because the cow was bred), it was meant as an FYI for next time.

 

[inyati13]

Are you familiar with the Ovsynch protocol (7-2-1)?

http://www.ansci.wisc.edu/jjp1/ansci_re ... vsynch.htm

@ day 1: GnRH
@ day 7: Estrumate or Lutalyse
@ 48 hrs later: GnRH
@ 12-16 hrs later : AI

Thanks. I am thinking I need some kind of protocol for this time of year. It was easy in December when I bred the fall calvers. Very clear what they were doing. Now I am having a hard time picking up heats.

 

[dun]

Thanks. I am thinking I need some kind of protocol for this time of year. It was easy in December when I bred the fall calvers. Very clear what they were doing. Now I am having a hard time picking up heats.

This is the first one we've had to resort to shots to bring into heat in many many years. I heat detect multiple times a day but the first and last are around dark or late dusk. Until the last couple of years we did 100% AI and bred everything on natural heats. I proabably could have just waited until her next natural heat and we would have caught her, but I want a tight calving season, 30 days or so, that's why I decided to force her to come in.

 

[Jessica06]

We had several do that this year. Frustrating! It takes guts to put a $50 straw of semen in a cow that never stood. One of the cows is 26 days post AI with no signs of heat, so we'll see. We had another do the same thing, after we bred her on a really good standing heat 21 days prior. Passed on her, should have gone with my gut and bred on mucus and bulling, since she ultrasounded open on 32 days.

We decided to forego a cleanup bull this year on our registered cattle. Next year, we will be using a bull of the teasing variety. ....stealth estrus. Very fitting!

 

[inyati13]

We had several do that this year. Frustrating! It takes guts to put a $50 straw of semen in a cow that never stood. One of the cows is 26 days post AI with no signs of heat, so we'll see. We had another do the same thing, after we bred her on a really good standing heat 21 days prior. Passed on her, should have gone with my gut and bred on mucus and bulling, since she ultrasounded open on 32 days.

We decided to forego a cleanup bull this year on our registered cattle. Next year, we will be using a bull of the teasing variety. ....stealth estrus. Very fitting!

This has been a very disappointing June for me. I have discussed it with my friend, Fire Sweep Ranch. Everyone who knows me here, knows I almost live with my cattle. I mean this literally, I think they believe I am a bovine member of the herd. I can even walk up to the calves and scratch their butts. But this June has been very difficult picking up estrus patterns. I have several that are two years old and nursing their first calves. FSR thinks that is part of the problem. I guess these first time calvers have suppressed estrus cycles or none at all!!! I finally turned a few of the older cows to the bull so I can concentrate on the heifers in a smaller pasture. Disappoints me because in December, I bred all the Fall calvers via AI.