Beef cattle Phenotype

Joined
Nov 14, 2021
Messages
1,717
City & State/Province
Gilmer County Georgia
Few months ago I was lucky enough to spend a couple days with a whole bunch of smart people at that annual Wagyu conference.
It was basically two days of cattle genetics and eating Wagyu 3 times a day.
Some of it was over my head like the gene sequencing... but I enjoyed every bit of it.
My 2 questions were:
Can environment modify a gene ?
And what % of phenotype comes from genetics and what % comes from environment ?
Opinions ?
 
Few months ago I was lucky enough to spend a couple days with a whole bunch of smart people at that annual Wagyu conference.
It was basically two days of cattle genetics and eating Wagyu 3 times a day.
Some of it was over my head like the gene sequencing... but I enjoyed every bit of it.
My 2 questions were:
Can environment modify a gene ?
And what % of phenotype comes from genetics and what % comes from environment ?
Opinions ?
What traits?
 
Environment does factor in, termed gene expression or epigenetics turning on or off protein synthesis. One classic example of gene expression is the Himalayan rabbit. its fur pigmentation is determined by the temperature they were raised in. I don't know of anything related to cattle however.

I do know of health hackers who are attempting to adopt practices or dietary changes to improve their personal health like homocysteine supplements or ice bathing. However with cattle, in practice I don't see where gene expression changes how we manage cattle or select sires. A cow should thrive in its environment or it doesn't and we cull. It might be useful if some inexpensive supplement could be provided but changing environment isn't economical.
 
Last edited:
"Can environment modify a gene ?"
As Dave said, environment can turn on and turn off some genes. That is why we see some generational skipping of traits or drought or good year impacts. Nobody on the farm or ranch can prove it per animal but there is some research.

"And what % of phenotype comes from genetics and what % comes from environment ?"
Things like milk production can be theoretically high but lower amounts or quality of feed can limit the total production. Parasite resistance or resilience can be weaker but high protein can mask the issue. Drop the protein and moderate resistance and resilience will cause a lot of problems.

Visual type: a lot of that is environmental. I have two full heifers here, for example. An older friend sold me the remainder of his herd sometime before he died. One heifer had matured on his farm as he and his family managed and a young calf came here to develop. They are not even close to each other in type. Only difference: environment.

Don't forget gestational programming. It is real and conditions the next generation to tolerate and use the feed/forages that the mother ingested and digested. That is pretty clear with KY31 fescue in our area. Along with some cattle that have no genetic ability to deal with it.
 
Few months ago I was lucky enough to spend a couple days with a whole bunch of smart people at that annual Wagyu conference.
It was basically two days of cattle genetics and eating Wagyu 3 times a day.
Some of it was over my head like the gene sequencing... but I enjoyed every bit of it.
My 2 questions were:
Can environment modify a gene ?
And what % of phenotype comes from genetics and what % comes from environment ?
Opinions ?

Yes the environment can change dna.
 
As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases. Product prices and availability are accurate as of the date/time indicated and are subject to change.
Is this the same as mitochondrial DNA? I've heard the term a few times but don't really understand it.
No. Mitochondrial DNA is only from the dam's side and, the way I understand it, it is DNA that is attached to the normal genes/DNA but not the genes themselves. That is the best I understand it.

Gestational programming is sort of like epigenetics where the exposure of the fetus to the compounds via the cows blood supply somehow prepare the calf for the same forages and conditions once born and when it grazes. I read something in the past few months that grains and concentrates do the same thing and a calf can move to all forages when born and only grazing forages to be at a disadvantage.
 
Example of two full sisters raised differently is not a good example. Embryo full sibs raised completely the same can be totally opposite in phenotype, milking ability, temperament. Some inherited stronger traits from sire vs dam and another one reverse.
I'll go with my gut feeling on this one as the cattle are fairly tightly bred.
 
Genes and environment go together. The genes won't change as far as heredity goes, but their expression can be increased or decreased

In WW2, during the Dutch hunger winter, the babies that were in the last trimester of gestation suffered a HUGE increase in obesity and diabetes later in life.. The fetus was prepared to store away any extra energy into fat, and this continued throughout their life

 
what % of phenotype comes from genetics and what % comes from environment ?
Opinions ?
My rule of thumb [from observations of a wide variety of mammals including man] 1/3 genetics 2/3 environment.
just my 2 cents
Children born in the US in the 1930s are effected similarly to what those dutch war babies. I remember reading this last year and thought of my father who was a depression baby. He aged quickly late in life. https://greekreporter.com/2022/11/22/people-conceived-great-depression-age-faster-new-research/
What caught my attention in the article was:
A slew of animal studies have linked early exposure to pollutants to epigenetic alterations that can shape brain development.
Which supports my theory of environmental pollution link to social problems today. ie The 'born this way' claim of transgenders ect has a ring of truth to me.... their brains haven't been 'wired right' from birth.
 
I didn't read that particular article as I couldn't find the link to what I read last fall. But yes that's very interesting and its a hot button issue for me, ergo the wall of text to follow...

There is something different with many children in the last 20+ years. Look at autism. I first heard of the term cutters in 2002, they were children who cut themselves to physically deal with the emotional pain they are experiencing. Now at the time I thought this was a social disease brought on by a sick culture and entertainment industry. I saw that as a product of cultural changes, degeneration of the family, emo music, goths and also the psych meds that were getting "forced" on kids.

Fast forward a decade and issues arose in my children. Around about 2 and 4 years old, they started to be bad, hyper, uncontrollably difficult at times. We were the people in stores that "should have wooped their kids right then and there" - as if we didn't already try that and a lot of other things, it just didnt work. If that wasn't bad enough, my daughter at three started behaving almost like with autism, she stopped talking, stopped playing opting to just line toys up, ate and slept little, was scared and violent. She stated she wanted to be a boy. All this at three years old. Thankfully we saw a very competent doctor who referred us to a specialist who diagnosed with her PANDAS, which is suite of mental issues caused by the body's immune system attacking the brain. This can be triggered by strep but also other infections like Lyme in which case its labeled PANS. Antibiotics and IgG brought them both back to a normal healthy childhood. However, my son has relapsed as of last year where he was exposed to strep from working at the dairy. Everday life is again very stressful and difficult for him and family so we are hoping to get to treatment soon.

We aren't the only ones going through this. I talk with people in my generation who see similar things in their own children: autism, depression, eating disorders, anxiety, tics, OCD, bedwetting at late ages. Most are opting for psych meds. Stats show 13% are on psych meds. So the question is - what changed? Mainstream med was claiming genetics certainly for autism but that is slowly being dropped. Its known that excess folate supplementation in pregnancy is linked to autism. Infections like cytomegelovirus and rubella are too.

On a larger scale if its all genetic we might as well say that smoking is a healthy habit because some smokers live to 90; those that die from cancer and emphysema are genetic defectives. And to your point on pollution, in utero-exposure to road pollution is linked with autism (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34627014/) . Society had introduced so many things in so short of time that it is very difficult to determine cause and effect. In the above study was it automobile exhaust? Or particulates from tire wear? (https://www.theguardian.com/environ...e-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show).

One more interesting tid-bit. Its not just kids taking psych meds but adults. Have we changed too? Regardless, a recent study showed that psych meds themselves cause antibiotic resistance. https://arstechnica.com/science/202...ced-by-the-widespread-use-of-antidepressants/
 
I didn't realise Wagyu had phenotype. They are a bit hard on my eye.

Ken
I probably shouldn't have said this Mountain Creek, I do respect everyone's choice of breed of animal to breed so I apologise, just having a bit of a dig really. Do you select your genetics on phenotype? Phenotype I would imagine should be comparing to other Wagyu, not to what we perceive to be ideal phenotype for other breeds otherwise you will end up with something looking like other breeds. My perception of Wagyu is that it is more of a performance based breed and value of a bull is more related to what he produces on the rail rather than eye appeal.
Has much work been done on feed conversion/ yield compared to other breeds? My perception is that you take a bit of a hit on these but make it up with a higher value carcase, is this correct.

Ken
 
I'm still waiting after 60yrs ranching up here for my Angus to become Mastodons
Environment doesn't change DNA, it activates/deactivates some genes more than others
I didn't read that particular article as I couldn't find the link to what I read last fall. But yes that's very interesting and its a hot button issue for me, ergo the wall of text to follow...

There is something different with many children in the last 20+ years. Look at autism. I first heard of the term cutters in 2002, they were children who cut themselves to physically deal with the emotional pain they are experiencing. Now at the time I thought this was a social disease brought on by a sick culture and entertainment industry. I saw that as a product of cultural changes, degeneration of the family, emo music, goths and also the psych meds that were getting "forced" on kids.

Fast forward a decade and issues arose in my children. Around about 2 and 4 years old, they started to be bad, hyper, uncontrollably difficult at times. We were the people in stores that "should have wooped their kids right then and there" - as if we didn't already try that and a lot of other things, it just didnt work. If that wasn't bad enough, my daughter at three started behaving almost like with autism, she stopped talking, stopped playing opting to just line toys up, ate and slept little, was scared and violent. She stated she wanted to be a boy. All this at three years old. Thankfully we saw a very competent doctor who referred us to a specialist who diagnosed with her PANDAS, which is suite of mental issues caused by the body's immune system attacking the brain. This can be triggered by strep but also other infections like Lyme in which case its labeled PANS. Antibiotics and IgG brought them both back to a normal healthy childhood. However, my son has relapsed as of last year where he was exposed to strep from working at the dairy. Everday life is again very stressful and difficult for him and family so we are hoping to get to treatment soon.

We aren't the only ones going through this. I talk with people in my generation who see similar things in their own children: autism, depression, eating disorders, anxiety, tics, OCD, bedwetting at late ages. Most are opting for psych meds. Stats show 13% are on psych meds. So the question is - what changed? Mainstream med was claiming genetics certainly for autism but that is slowly being dropped. Its known that excess folate supplementation in pregnancy is linked to autism. Infections like cytomegelovirus and rubella are too.

On a larger scale if its all genetic we might as well say that smoking is a healthy habit because some smokers live to 90; those that die from cancer and emphysema are genetic defectives. And to your point on pollution, in utero-exposure to road pollution is linked with autism (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34627014/) . Society had introduced so many things in so short of time that it is very difficult to determine cause and effect. In the above study was it automobile exhaust? Or particulates from tire wear? (https://www.theguardian.com/environ...e-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show).

One more interesting tid-bit. Its not just kids taking psych meds but adults. Have we changed too? Regardless, a recent study showed that psych meds themselves cause antibiotic resistance. https://arstechnica.com/science/202...ced-by-the-widespread-use-of-antidepressants/
A lot of that is because of improved, or changed standards and moving the goalpost of what is considered autism, ADHD, depression, anxiety, etc.. There's a TON of adults with undiagnosed conditions that they've just learned to live with, or are just a bit on the fringes of society, by choice or forced
 

Latest posts

Back
Top