Simmental vs. Gelbvieh

[Red Bull Breeder]

Hey Justa semental My old and sorry assed limi's do just fine on weeds and fescue. There is a couple of herd of the high powered sim angus cattle not to far from me. From the looks of them i will keep mine. I have ask you to post pictures of your cattle before, you never have. Lets see some of them more better than mine cattle of yours. You never no you might convert me!

 

[u4411clb]

If some people's breeds were as great as they thought they were they would not even have to down other peoples' cattle or tell me and others at every turn how great their cattle are. All we would have to do is go down to the sale barn and watch what goes through the ring. That is how I made my bull choice. Did not have an Angus man stop by the farm and tell me my cows are garbage or when ever the subject of cattle was brought up tell me how Angus ws God's gift to earth all I had to do was go to the sale barn and watch and ask questions. And when another breed is as great as some people think's their's is I will switch to that breed without being told my cows are garbage by going to the sale barn and watching again. Just my 2 cents. :2cents:

 

[ALACOWMAN]

If some people's breeds were as great as they thought they were they would not even have to down other peoples' cattle or tell me and others at every turn how great their cattle are. All we would have to do is go down to the sale barn and watch what goes through the ring. That is how I made my bull choice. Did not have an Angus man stop by the farm and tell me my cows are garbage or when ever the subject of cattle was brought up tell me how Angus ws God's gift to earth all I had to do was go to the sale barn and watch and ask questions. And when another breed is as great as some people think's their's is I will switch to that breed without being told my cows are garbage by going to the sale barn and watching again. Just my 2 cents. :2cents:

man id love for someone to do that :cowboy:

 

[Stocker Steve]

How to the Continental (cross) cow breeds compare for longivity?

According to a study by Colorado State University, Gelbvieh surpass Simmental and Red Angus in stayability (aka longevity). See details at: http://www.gelbvieh.org/powerfulgenetics.html

Though, overall I have been pleased with the longevity of our Gelbvieh females, I still have some young cows that fail to breed back in our breeding season and end up going to the sale barn. There are good and poor genetics for longevity in all breeds. To put the odds on your side, it is probably best to purchase females from operations with a similar environment and forage as you have, and from an operation that has similar selection and culling decisions.quote]

Thanks for the link.
I was surprized to see the "best" breed culled an average of 10% of the cows per year to age six, vs. about 19% per year for the "poorest" breed.
We are not in the fescue belt so I would think a 10 to 15% culling rate is high. I had 2 bulls go down during the breeding season and ended up culling 8 head for fertility this year:
- one bwf heifer never settled
- one black 2 year old never bred back
- one 4 year old SH milked herself to the bone and did not re breed
- six black cows did not re breed, but all the wf cross and herfs cows did...

 

[VLS_GUY]

UG,

A great post on the differences between Gelbvieh and Limousin. The Gelvieh is a dual purpose breed and the Limousin a specialist beef breed. If you want a similar breed to the Limousin it is the Blonde D' Aquitaine.

 

[cow pollinater]

I kind of tend to think of sims lims and gelbviehs as similar cattle. Based on breed average, the advantage goes to the sims but breed average never defines good individuals.
One thing that I have noticed is that I have yet to be around a flat-a$$-crazy gelbvieh. I haven't been around alot of them but when I've seen the influence I've always seen a fairly quiet cow. Some sims and lims that I've dealt with make me REAL hesitant to want to touch them again and this is in the recent past so there's no telling me how they're different than they used to be... When you have to climb the squeeze chute to get away, SHE'S CRAZY. :roll:

 

[Nesikep]

Looking at the stayability chart on the link posted (Interesting BTW, thanks), it's surprising to see that the listed breeds (GV, Simm, RA), all the herds are in the 50% range at 6 years... I would have expected it a bit higher, though that does include all reasons for culling I assume... I have a couple cows who'll be 5 this spring, and I could have gotten rid of them a long time ago for poor performance. Of the 6 heifers we kept in 2004, we still have 5 of them, 2005 is 2/2, 2006 is 3/4, 2007 and 2008 are at 100% but there are a couple are at the top of my cull list if I need room for better performers. All listed animals above are Shorthorn crosses. I do find it true that if a cow makes it to 5 years old, there's a good chance that she'll make it to 10. So the longest lived cow we ever had was a very blonde baldie herf cross (x RA + Simm?), I have one now who'll be 16 and I've kept about 4 heifers to replace her and she keeps going.

From what I can see with the Gelbvieh heifers I have is that they're suckers for attention, there was one I was worried about (mother is a witch), but the day I weaned her she became a doll to work with... I guess mom was giving her bad vibes. The two older GV heifers are nice, both should be milkable when necessary, both have a couple handfuls of udder and they're 3 months from calving. I'll be able to say more by falltime one how their calves grow

 

[3waycross]

I am going to repost what I said last spring when our buddy started another of his :bs: :bs: threads. These are real world numbers not some propaganda from ANY breed office. I had bulls in this test and they performed right along with the Sim/angus bulls.

Re: Simmentals!
by 3waycross » Thu May 12, 2011 10:52 pm

Here are some weights from a recent bull sale in Colorado. All bulls avgeraged were yearlings, and these were their SALE weights. Not totally scientific but VERY interesting nevertheless.

15 Angus bulls Avg 1077lbs
30 Balancers Avg 1137lbs
35 Sim-Angus AVG 1136lbs
10 2yr old Balancers avg 1456lbs
4 2yr old Sim-Angus bulls avg 1598lbs This on the surface would seem to give the edge to the Simangus except for a couple of things. It would lead me to believe that they would also carry a much higher mature weight, eat more and have to go down the road at an earlier age due to breaking
down either themselves or the cows they were breeding. I know several ranchers who had to sell bulls this year due to them
stifling cows.

BTW these bulls were in the same lot on the same feed segreted loosely by size into 3 different pens so that the larger bulls would compete against their own size peer group. You draw your own conclusions.

 

[hillsdown]

I am going to repost what I said last spring when our buddy started another of his :bs: :bs: threads. These are real world numbers not some propaganda from ANY breed office. I had bulls in this test and they performed right along with the Sim/angus bulls.

Re: Simmentals!
by 3waycross » Thu May 12, 2011 10:52 pm

Here are some weights from a recent bull sale in Colorado. All bulls avgeraged were yearlings, and these were their SALE weights. Not totally scientific but VERY interesting nevertheless.

15 Angus bulls Avg 1077lbs
30 Balancers Avg 1137lbs
35 Sim-Angus AVG 1136lbs
10 2yr old Balancers avg 1456lbs
4 2yr old Sim-Angus bulls avg 1598lbs This on the surface would seem to give the edge to the Simangus except for a couple of things. It would lead me to believe that they would also carry a much higher mature weight, eat more and have to go down the road at an earlier age due to breaking
down either themselves or the cows they were breeding. I know several ranchers who had to sell bulls this year due to them
stifling cows.

BTW these bulls were in the same lot on the same feed segreted loosely by size into 3 different pens so that the larger bulls would compete against their own size peer group. You draw your own conclusions.

3wc you can post actual facts until your fingers fall off, don't mean shytt to the haters and personally I am glad they don't raise what I do . They would just bring the breed reputation down . There are some of us that raise cattle to exceed expectations and then there are those that choose a breed, are mediocre as possible just to get by and ride the coat tails of those that work their asses off to become the best that they can be. I say screw em and the horse they rode in on, with 2012 coming I ain't got time for scum like them. AND this is how I really feel !!!!

 

[Isomade]

I thinks he's a kid, talking about daddy's cows. Probably 18-20 years old.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

You ain't been here as long as the rest of us Isom. Hey 3way you ever here of Running Creek Ranch out your way??

 

[Isomade]

You ain't been here as long as the rest of us Isom. Hey 3way you ever here of Running Creek Ranch out your way??

:???: I came here 6 months after you. What does that have to do with the price of rice in China?

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Then you ain't been paying attention Justa has been here in a few different names.

 

[JustSimmental]

Yes, I admit this is pretty tight knit little group here of nay-sayers. There are good cattle of all breeds and they work better in some different environments, but when we crunch the data on performance --some just do better than others do-- so this gives us all an opportunity to see what areas need improvement.
This doesn't really pertain to the commercial producer that much because they don't have the data the PB breeder has anyway, but it gives the commercial producer an idea what the real differences are and It is important for those commercial producers that are trying to improve their numbers. With more education in this category, they too, will improve.

Here is a 2011 Across Breed EPD Table:

http://beefmagazine.com/images/Adjustment-factors-estimate-across-breed-EPDs.pdf

The blank spaces in this table e.g. Gelbvieh represent No Data; and this is why I say when comparing Simmental and Gelbvieh together it is difficult because of the lack of data. To many, myself included, a lack of data equal either embarrassing data or might be a breed associations inability to press their PB breeders to gather the data or just a lack of a large enough data set.

And really when looking at the Gelbvieh in comparison with any of the breeds in this chart I don't see anything that stands out that makes them special in any way, especially with the lack of data.

Remember that ASA was the first association to have a sire summary and the first cattle breed association to welcome all breeds regardless of color.

People like RBB, who's claim to fame is being "here longer" than anyone else -- that was because the rest of us were working. Another thing for RBB --- and this is the last time I plan to mention it--- not all Simm breeders just have black cattle -- we have red too, and actually in 2011, our red cattle numbers came closer to our black cattle for the first time. I think in the very near future our red cattle will surpass the black cattle in all areas of economic importance. Too bad that Limmi's won't be part of that. I too, can refrain from bashing the Limmi's, so much, but I still have nightmares from the old days of wild crazy Limm cows, tough beef, hours of fixing fence from those jumpers and low fertility cows and bulls.

Happy New Year

JS

You ain't been here as long as the rest of us Isom. Hey 3way you ever here of Running Creek Ranch out your way??

 

[ANAZAZI]

People like RBB, who's claim to fame is being "here longer" than anyone else -- that was because the rest of us were working. ]

I assume that you have stopped working; now that you are here with RBB?

 

[Dylan Biggs]

I kind of tend to think of sims lims and gelbviehs as similar cattle. Based on breed average, the advantage goes to the sims but breed average never defines good individuals.
One thing that I have noticed is that I have yet to be around a flat-a$$-crazy gelbvieh. I haven't been around alot of them but when I've seen the influence I've always seen a fairly quiet cow. Some sims and lims that I've dealt with make me REAL hesitant to want to touch them again and this is in the recent past so there's no telling me how they're different than they used to be... When you have to climb the squeeze chute to get away, SHE'S CRAZY. :roll:

We had a group of purchased Lim and Simm feeder heifers a few years ago, that was one flat out terrified lunatic bunch of cattle. Have never had a more terrified bunch of cattle here ever. The fellow we purchased them from claims they were that way because he never handled them. I suspect that the few times he did, he gave them cause to be afraid. They schooled like fish, one wrong step and they would blow. They certainly were not good ambassadors for their respective breeds, they were very good though for refining finesse handling skills. :cboy:

 

[JustSimmental]

Sure we are still working, but since the sun went down about 4 hours ago we decided to call it a day.

People like RBB, who's claim to fame is being "here longer" than anyone else -- that was because the rest of us were working. ]

I assume that you have stopped working; now that you are here with RBB?

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Edrsimms was the handle you had before justsimmental i think. I only ever post on threads you are involved in to see what kind of worthless information you can spew next. Cause you sure as hell don't no much about raising cattle. As for working i been working all my life, can't ever remember not working at something.

 

[3waycross]

You ain't been here as long as the rest of us Isom. Hey 3way you ever here of Running Creek Ranch out your way??

No I haven't heard of it. What town are they near?

 

[3waycross]

Yes, I admit this is pretty tight knit little group here of nay-sayers. There are good cattle of all breeds and they work better in some different environments, but when we crunch the data on performance --some just do better than others do-- so this gives us all an opportunity to see what areas need improvement.
This doesn't really pertain to the commercial producer that much because they don't have the data the PB breeder has anyway, but it gives the commercial producer an idea what the real differences are and It is important for those commercial producers that are trying to improve their numbers. With more education in this category, they too, will improve.

Here is a 2011 Across Breed EPD Table:

http://beefmagazine.com/images/Adjustment-factors-estimate-across-breed-EPDs.pdf

The blank spaces in this table e.g. Gelbvieh represent No Data; and this is why I say when comparing Simmental and Gelbvieh together it is difficult because of the lack of data. To many, myself included, a lack of data equal either embarrassing data or might be a breed associations inability to press their PB breeders to gather the data or just a lack of a large enough data set.

And really when looking at the Gelbvieh in comparison with any of the breeds in this chart I don't see anything that stands out that makes them special in any way, especially with the lack of data.

Remember that ASA was the first association to have a sire summary and the first cattle breed association to welcome all breeds regardless of color.

People like RBB, who's claim to fame is being "here longer" than anyone else -- that was because the rest of us were working. Another thing for RBB --- and this is the last time I plan to mention it--- not all Simm breeders just have black cattle -- we have red too, and actually in 2011, our red cattle numbers came closer to our black cattle for the first time. I think in the very near future our red cattle will surpass the black cattle in all areas of economic importance. Too bad that Limmi's won't be part of that. I too, can refrain from bashing the Limmi's, so much, but I still have nightmares from the old days of wild crazy Limm cows, tough beef, hours of fixing fence from those jumpers and low fertility cows and bulls.

Happy New Year

JS

I would like to thank you for quickly proving Hillsdown to be right on the money about you. You conveniently ignore real world results that don't fit your BS paradigm. The reason you don't even attempt to rebutt the sale results I posted is that they are provable in the real world. I have yet to see you post ANY results of YOUR cattle. The thing is even if everything you spew was 100% correct then why are you wasting your time here with us losers and our loser cattle. The answer is because like someone said you are a child bragging about someone else's cattle. I for one would like you to post some pictures and some pedigrees of your cattle and prove to all of us just how sorry we really are. If you are not willing to do that then this would be a real good time for you to ****. By the way I don't mean your daddies cows I mean what you have bred and own. Results of your bull sales would also be enlightening. One thing you should also notice is that none of us knock Sims. It's you that's the problem not your cattle. There are Sim breeders who are members here who I personally have a ton of respect for. BTW you aren't one of them.
NOW YOU ARE CALLED OUT. PUT UP OR SHUT UP.

You ain't been here as long as the rest of us Isom. Hey 3way you ever here of Running Creek Ranch out your way??