Simangus or Baldy cows

[Taurus]

I grew up in a Gulf-coastal state, where some Brahman influence is very helpful. In KY, it's not so necessary - and may actually have some negative economic impact, when those eared calves go through the sale barn. Brangus has its place, as do other Brahman-influenced breeds, but TX and KY are different. Would like to have a bit of 'ear' in my cattle, because of where I grew up, but I'm not willing to go there at present.

I used those red/yellow/spotted white-faced Simmentals back in the '80s, though CE/BW was always a principal selection criterion - even on mature cows, so I never had a problem with difficult calving. Still prefer that look - but economically, it's not for me here and now.
Yes, Simmentals today are black - and most are smaller than the average Angus cow or bull - thanks to progressive breeders selecting for better calving ease/BW, marbling, and other traits, far beyond just black hide color.
Despite their detractors, they're not just mongrelized Angus. Look at pedigrees - you may have to go 8-10 generations or farther back to find anything less than a PB or FB animal in most. Some Angus(and other 'closed' herdbook breeds) have 'suspect' animals closer up than that...

Went back to Angus bulls about 10 years ago; calves by the walking herdsire have been pretty decent. Most by the Angus AI sires we've used have been a disappointment. Have gone back to using some Simmental sires (black) - and the results have been pretty clear-cut, that most of the calves are better - and although they're black...they're not Angus.

I know they arent angus, but they arent sims either in my book......lol........not sure what they are.

But your cattle ain't straightbred simmentals and your cattle have lot of breeds in the woodpile than black simmental does.

 

[Lucky_P]

True dat, Taurus.
Most of the older cows here are ~7/16 each Angus & Simmental - with 1/8 something else - mostly Holstein, in the background. Linebred to sons of ABR Sir Arnold G809 (some would say inbred) for about 15 years - many of these cows were really closely related - before we went back to Angus - so... most of the young, productive cows in the herd are now 3/4 to 15/16 Angus. Still, the Simmental-sired calves out of both the old and younger cows have grown and performed far better than those sired by high WW Angus AI sires, and comparable to slightly better than those by red Shorthorn bulls.

Moving back to breeding almost everything (black)Simmental again for at least a couple of years...with a SimAngus cleanup bull.

 

[inyati13]

True dat, Taurus.
Most of the older cows here are ~7/16 each Angus & Simmental - with 1/8 something else - mostly Holstein, in the background. Linebred to sons of ABR Sir Arnold G809 (some would say inbred) for about 15 years - many of these cows were really closely related - before we went back to Angus - so... most of the young, productive cows in the herd are now 3/4 to 15/16 Angus. Still, the Simmental-sired calves out of both the old and younger cows have grown and performed far better than those sired by high WW Angus AI sires, and comparable to slightly better than those by red Shorthorn bulls.

Moving back to breeding almost everything (black)Simmental again for at least a couple of years...with a SimAngus cleanup bull.

Would you give this old altar boy a hint, Father? I like that line from the Exorcist. Maybe I need one.

I know the your manager selects the sires. Would she get mad if you told me some of the ones you plan to use? Any from Select Sires?

 

[cowgirl8]

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=42994
angus/brangus cross has been discussed here a few years ago... I was looking at a article that was saying this is the cow to have now, cant find it anywhere but i'll keep looking. When i saw that the OP wanted replacements, i remembered the article..I thought if i were starting over, i might would go with those combinations...I have a few brangus cows, old ones who when bred to the angus make awesome calves.

 

[Taurus]

http://www.cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=42994
angus/brangus cross has been discussed here a few years ago... I was looking at a article that was saying this is the cow to have now, cant find it anywhere but i'll keep looking. When i saw that the OP wanted replacements, i remembered the article..I thought if i were starting over, i might would go with those combinations...I have a few brangus cows, old ones who when bred to the angus make awesome calves.

Why would someone in Kentucky needs brangus x Angus crosses as replacements?

 

[inyati13]

http://www.cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=42994
angus/brangus cross has been discussed here a few years ago... I was looking at a article that was saying this is the cow to have now, cant find it anywhere but i'll keep looking. When i saw that the OP wanted replacements, i remembered the article..I thought if i were starting over, i might would go with those combinations...I have a few brangus cows, old ones who when bred to the angus make awesome calves.

Why would someone in Kentucky needs brangus x Angus crosses as replacements?

They don't. And I bet there are not a 100 brangus in the entre state of KY. I thought Lucky already buried that goofy idea.

 

[HughesFamilyCattle]

http://www.cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=42994
angus/brangus cross has been discussed here a few years ago... I was looking at a article that was saying this is the cow to have now, cant find it anywhere but i'll keep looking. When i saw that the OP wanted replacements, i remembered the article..I thought if i were starting over, i might would go with those combinations...I have a few brangus cows, old ones who when bred to the angus make awesome calves.

Why would someone in Kentucky needs brangus x Angus crosses as replacements?

They don't. And I bet there are not a 100 brangus in the entre state of KY. I thought Lucky already buried that goofy idea.

And even a hint of ear will kill you at the Stockyards in Ky!

 

[Taurus]

Why would someone in Kentucky needs brangus x Angus crosses as replacements?

They don't. And I bet there are not a 100 brangus in the entre state of KY. I thought Lucky already buried that goofy idea.

And even a hint of ear will kill you at the Stockyards in Ky!

The fartherest the north gets, the eared cattle gets hobby bred. Around here you will be lucky to get someone buys your eared cattle at a dirty cheap price even if its a bred cow. Saw a craigslist ad someone selling a bred F1 tiger stripe cow for $600 a little while ago.

 

[cowgirl8]

I saw a trailer load of brangus bulls at the vet. I thought they were angus. Had ever bit of ear bred out of them. They were awesome looking bulls. Asked the guy if they were sale. He said he had one, and if we bought him he hoped our fences were high....guess they didnt breed that out of them..lol.. I like the idea of the ultrablacks. The OP is wanting replacements. My suggestion was for keepers....My opinion, they can take it or leave it.

 

[Taurus]

I saw a trailer load of brangus bulls at the vet. I thought they were angus. Had ever bit of ear bred out of them. They were awesome looking bulls. Asked the guy if they were sale. He said he had one, and if we bought him he hoped our fences were high....guess they didnt breed that out of them..lol.. I like the idea of the ultrablacks. The OP is wanting replacements. My suggestion was for keepers....My opinion, they can take it or leave it.

The OP is in Kentucky. Its important to pay attention to the location of the OP before given any advice/suggestions. It doesn't make any senses to producing ultrablacks as replacements in Kentucky and not all states farming the eared cattle.

 

[inyati13]

I saw a trailer load of brangus bulls at the vet. I thought they were angus. Had ever bit of ear bred out of them. They were awesome looking bulls. Asked the guy if they were sale. He said he had one, and if we bought him he hoped our fences were high....guess they didnt breed that out of them..lol.. I like the idea of the ultrablacks. The OP is wanting replacements. My suggestion was for keepers....My opinion, they can take it or leave it.

The underlined is not in dispute. What keeps this circus running is when superior suggestions are proffered, you continue to defend yours. You have every right to do that. I mention it because your messages give every indication it is not occurring to you.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

I would bet in a few phone calls I could find over a 100 head of brangus in KY.

 

[skyhightree1]

I'm in Kentucky and I'm trying to decide which bull to put with our black cows with the possibilty of keeping heifers. I know Baldy cows are extremely popular for various reasons but we have about 30 Simangus cows that seem to always raise the best calves, possible due to milking better. Which do you think makes the best mama cow? On the Baldy cow I guess I could put a Gelbeivh bull and on the Simangus probably a Hereford.

I have simangus cows angus cows and a sim angus bull... I have baldy cows as well that I recently bought that came off a sim angus bull... I personally have a great experience with sim angus bull on sim angus cows and angus cows and they grow quick and well and also make good replacement heifers.. I keep all my heifers.

 

[Taurus]

I would bet in a few phone calls I could find over a 100 head of brangus in KY.

I'm sure you will find 100 head of brangus in MN too.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

I would have to find them for you cause you would no a brangus cow from a buffalo. Long ways from Ky to Mn. Little ear brings a lot more to table than just heat tolerance. But you got so much cow smarts I am sure you no that.

 

[Taurus]

I would have to find them for you cause you would no a brangus cow from a buffalo. Long ways from Ky to Mn. Little ear brings a lot more to table than just heat tolerance. But you got so much cow smarts I am sure you no that.

Well I hope you realized there are only five registered brangus breeders in KY.

 

[inyati13]

I would bet in a few phone calls I could find over a 100 head of brangus in KY.

I could make a few phone calls and find 100 Wood Elfs in Kentucky.

Just kidding. I concede. You could find 100 brangus in Ky. Maybe 300. Maybe 327. I don't know. The OP ask what kind of bull should he use to cover his 30 simangus cows. He came back with this post:

Thanks for the input but I may not have been real clear with my question. Which bull would you put on angus cows with plans on keeping heifers? A Simmental or Hereford?

Lucky_P pointed out the issue of brangus bringing in another dose of angus genetics and the discount at sale due to the ear.

But you are right. I will agree, there would be at least a 100 brangus in KY. Kentucky has 1.1 million beef cows. Brangus are an infinitely small percentage of that number.

Farmer41: brangus, as taurus said, are virtually a hobby breed in Kentucky. You might just as well have a kangaroo farm.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

I saw a trailer load of brangus bulls at the vet. I thought they were angus. Had ever bit of ear bred out of them. They were awesome looking bulls. Asked the guy if they were sale. He said he had one, and if we bought him he hoped our fences were high....guess they didnt breed that out of them..lol.. I like the idea of the ultrablacks. The OP is wanting replacements. My suggestion was for keepers....My opinion, they can take it or leave it.

So your saying it's wrong for a simmental to not look like a simmental, but it's fine for a brangus to not look like a brangus?

 

[cowgirl8]

I saw a trailer load of brangus bulls at the vet. I thought they were angus. Had ever bit of ear bred out of them. They were awesome looking bulls. Asked the guy if they were sale. He said he had one, and if we bought him he hoped our fences were high....guess they didnt breed that out of them..lol.. I like the idea of the ultrablacks. The OP is wanting replacements. My suggestion was for keepers....My opinion, they can take it or leave it.

So your saying it's wrong for a simmental to not look like a simmental, but it's fine for a brangus to not look like a brangus?

I guess what i'm pointing out is if its ok for a sim to not look like a sim anymore, then why is it not ok for a brangus to not look like a brangus...lol

 

[Lucky_P]

I'll bet I could find 100 Brangus in my own county; well, maybe not registered or purebred, but quite a few Brangus-influenced cattle.
There are quite a few folks up here breeding UltraBlacks, and some of the prettiest heifers I've seen in decades were a bunch of BeefmasterXAngus girls who went through the select bred heifer sale at Guthrie last fall - quite a few UltraBlacks in that sale, too.
Not sure that there's all that much discrimination against a little 'ear' at the local salebarns - and particularly not right now. I just don't think we'll be reintroducing any Brahman influence into our herd.