Simangus or Baldy cows

[Taurus]

 If you can find a black hereford bull, even better.

:shock: black Hereford bulls is not what the OP needs and there are some issues with using black herefords to cross with other breeds, especially you got solid calves out of black Herefords. Another issue is the lack of quality in Black Herefords. Sure there are few quality ones but there are lot of junky looking ones.

I considered black Hereford bulls to be almost useless for commercial operations. But many folks loved black Hereford cows, just not bulls.

 

[cow pollinater]

The point in adding sim is to make them bigger.

You are out of touch with current genetic trends. Sims today are mostly pretty moderate framed. The hard part anymore is finding angus and hereford genetics that don't make them to big.

 

[cowgirl8]

I'll have to post some of the awesome calves my daughter is getting out of her black hereford... worked for her

 

[cowgirl8]

The point in adding sim is to make them bigger.

You are out of touch with current genetic trends. Sims today are mostly pretty moderate framed. The hard part anymore is finding angus and hereford genetics that don't make them to big.

I must be....so, why would anyone go sim anymore?

 

[cow pollinater]

The point in adding sim is to make them bigger.

You are out of touch with current genetic trends. Sims today are mostly pretty moderate framed. The hard part anymore is finding angus and hereford genetics that don't make them to big.

I must be....so, why would anyone go sim anymore?

Heterosis, moderate frames, milk, yield grade, disposition all wrapped up in a black package that's similar enough to angus that there's no dock for it.

 

[Taurus]

The point in adding sim is to make them bigger.

You are out of touch with current genetic trends. Sims today are mostly pretty moderate framed. The hard part anymore is finding angus and hereford genetics that don't make them to big.

I must be....so, why would anyone go sim anymore?

:shock: Black Simmentals and SimAngus offers some good traits to the commercial operators.

Better carcass, better mothering abilities, better wean weights and better calving ease are few examples. And yes many simmentals are smaller today than many years ago when they are flecks.

 

[Backbone Ranch]

TennesseeTuxedo- Yes, the sire of the heifer is a Murray Grey.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

TennesseeTuxedo- Yes, the sire of the heifer is a Murray Grey.

Fine looking mother and calf.

 

[jd720]

I would try to find a baldy Simmental bull so you could have the best of both worlds. You would keep the growth and mothering ability of the Simmentals and still get a few baldy calves that everyone likes. There are several good Simmental breeders in Kentucky so you shouldn't have much trouble finding a bull that fits your needs. We are in Tennessee and the Simmental and half Simmental cows are doing the best for us. Any heifers we keep now are at least half Simmental.

 

[inyati13]

I'm in Kentucky and I'm trying to decide which bull to put with our black cows with the possibilty of keeping heifers. I know Baldy cows are extremely popular for various reasons but we have about 30 Simangus cows that seem to always raise the best calves, possible due to milking better. Which do you think makes the best mama cow? On the Baldy cow I guess I could put a Gelbeivh bull and on the Simangus probably a Hereford.

Where are you? I may be your neighbor!!!

 

[cowgirl8]

Heterosis, moderate frames, milk, yield grade, disposition all wrapped up in a black package that's similar enough to angus that there's no dock for it.

Back in the day when sims were sims, the point in crossing them was bigger everything. What you got in the end was a giant heavy milker. When my kids started showing sims in the early 90s, our herd was almost all sim, sim crosses. We ran sim bulls. They were all colors of red and different patterned white markings.. As the girls showed, the color turned to solid black in the show ring. We never had a solid black show heifer, thats when one of our daughters bought an angus heifer. We then started buying angus bulls. Once we got that started, we started buying sim/angus bulls. If it were 1980 again and we were shown a todays sim, would have never gone that way. If we were wanting heterosis and i had my angus cows lined up, it would be hereford. I dont believe that a sim is even a sim anymore so why bother mixing it with a good angus cow anymore..thats my opinion, right or wrong. if you're wanting a real sim mix, you need a fleck sim...

 

[fitz]

Heterosis, moderate frames, milk, yield grade, disposition all wrapped up in a black package that's similar enough to angus that there's no dock for it.

Back in the day when sims were sims, the point in crossing them was bigger everything. What you got in the end was a giant heavy milker. When my kids started showing sims in the early 90s, our herd was almost all sim, sim crosses. We ran sim bulls. They were all colors of red and different patterned white markings.. As the girls showed, the color turned to solid black in the show ring. We never had a solid black show heifer, thats when one of our daughters bought an angus heifer. We then started buying angus bulls. Once we got that started, we started buying sim/angus bulls. If it were 1980 again and we were shown a todays sim, would have never gone that way. If we were wanting heterosis and i had my angus cows lined up, it would be hereford. I dont believe that a sim is even a sim anymore so why bother mixing it with a good angus cow anymore..thats my opinion, right or wrong. if you're wanting a real sim mix, you need a fleck sim...

For what CP wrote.

fitz

 

[Taurus]

Many folks has gotten away from the fleck simmentals because of the nightmares of calving huge calves, bulls being cow killers and their mature size. My late grandpa raised the fleck cattle many years ago for show and they were huge cows. Huge calves too at birth and at weaning time. He didn't do well at the sale barn with purebred fleck calves because the buyers don't want full continental calves.

I was at a local fair recently and I can't believe there are lot of black simmi and simangus being used as show cattle. They have super nice calves and there is chance that they will out weight your typical black baldy calf. That is why black simmental and simangus are getting popular because they will give you bigger calves when crossed to either Angus and Hereford cows.

 

[cowgirl8]

I thought about this while checking on my own cows. Back in the day before sims...king bull was a brangus. Most ranchers i knew of had cross bred cattle. I dont recall any pure bred herds and not saying there werent any, but where i lived, most small ranchers had cattle that were mixed and where i live thats still the rule... Back then, everyone ran brangus bulls, including us. When we went sim, we also had brangus bulls for a few years before going all sim.
You're wanting replacements, and you'd get the best replacement if you use a brangus on your angus. You cant beat that combination. I'm stuck on a sellers market, which would be a black baldy...replacements would be brangus cross with your angus.

 

[FlyingLSimmentals]

I have seen many Angus Bulls now that are much larger than the Black Simmentals. Cowgirl8, is stereo typing the Black Simmental with what the breed once was. With all the shows and sales I've been attending the last decade, the Hereford Bulls are larger frame and heavier than the Black Simmental Bulls. I think with an Hereford you might add to much white on the mane, chest, and underline. With a Black Simmental you might not get as much white as you desire. Some of the Simmental blaze face bulls will not pass the baldy face on a lot of times. Look for a full baldy face black Simmy, such as the bulls Shear Pleasure, Mo Better, and Blazin Hot to name a couple. Bryan Creek of Sunset View in Auburn, KY should be able to really help as well. They have produced Steel Force, Built Right, Star Power and other popular baldy Simmental bulls.

 

[cowgirl8]

I'm not stereotyping, just saying that to get any benefit why go sim now with todays sims? The benefit would have been logical if you did it with the fleck and you have to be careful in doing that with angus cows....They have turned sims into angus, you lose that advantage that you had with the fleck sim. Its an old way of thinking but using new cattle, and you dont get the same results. I'd use neither and go brangus for replacements..

 

[Lucky_P]

I grew up in a Gulf-coastal state, where some Brahman influence is very helpful. In KY, it's not so necessary - and may actually have some negative economic impact, when those eared calves go through the sale barn. Brangus has its place, as do other Brahman-influenced breeds, but TX and KY are different. Would like to have a bit of 'ear' in my cattle, because of where I grew up, but I'm not willing to go there at present.

I used those red/yellow/spotted white-faced Simmentals back in the '80s, though CE/BW was always a principal selection criterion - even on mature cows, so I never had a problem with difficult calving. Still prefer that look - but economically, it's not for me here and now.
Yes, Simmentals today are black - and most are smaller than the average Angus cow or bull - thanks to progressive breeders selecting for better calving ease/BW, marbling, and other traits, far beyond just black hide color.
Despite their detractors, they're not just mongrelized Angus. Look at pedigrees - you may have to go 8-10 generations or farther back to find anything less than a PB or FB animal in most. Some Angus(and other 'closed' herdbook breeds) have 'suspect' animals closer up than that...

Went back to Angus bulls about 10 years ago; calves by the walking herdsire have been pretty decent. Most by the Angus AI sires we've used have been a disappointment. Have gone back to using some Simmental sires (black) - and the results have been pretty clear-cut, that most of the calves are better - and although they're black...they're not Angus.

 

[Taurus]

Cowgirl8 I think you are missing the main point why most people doesn't want running the flecks nowadays.

 

[TexasBred]

You're wanting replacements, and you'd get the best replacement if you use a brangus on your angus. You cant beat that combination. I'm stuck on a sellers market, which would be a black baldy...replacements would be brangus cross with your angus.

A brangus is already 5/8 angus. Why would you want more? You'd be diluting what many think is the best cow created for this part of the world.

 

[cowgirl8]

I grew up in a Gulf-coastal state, where some Brahman influence is very helpful. In KY, it's not so necessary - and may actually have some negative economic impact, when those eared calves go through the sale barn. Brangus has its place, as do other Brahman-influenced breeds, but TX and KY are different. Would like to have a bit of 'ear' in my cattle, because of where I grew up, but I'm not willing to go there at present.

I used those red/yellow/spotted white-faced Simmentals back in the '80s, though CE/BW was always a principal selection criterion - even on mature cows, so I never had a problem with difficult calving. Still prefer that look - but economically, it's not for me here and now.
Yes, Simmentals today are black - and most are smaller than the average Angus cow or bull - thanks to progressive breeders selecting for better calving ease/BW, marbling, and other traits, far beyond just black hide color.
Despite their detractors, they're not just mongrelized Angus. Look at pedigrees - you may have to go 8-10 generations or farther back to find anything less than a PB or FB animal in most. Some Angus(and other 'closed' herdbook breeds) have 'suspect' animals closer up than that...

Went back to Angus bulls about 10 years ago; calves by the walking herdsire have been pretty decent. Most by the Angus AI sires we've used have been a disappointment. Have gone back to using some Simmental sires (black) - and the results have been pretty clear-cut, that most of the calves are better - and although they're black...they're not Angus.

I know they arent angus, but they arent sims either in my book......lol........not sure what they are.