Fertile cows or what?

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ClinchValley86

ClinchValley86

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I have checked my notes from 2022 calving season, and am confused. Everything calved between August 20 and End of September.

Got a call yesterday that a calf was on the ground. Wasn't expecting any til August/September. I get over there and the bull calf looked good and full term. Got to checking over the rest of the cows and dang if there aren't 5 to 10 that are either bagged up or in process of doing so. Another calf has hit the ground this morning. So two at that interval.

Neighbors bull did turn himself in with mine when the first cow calved in August and we decided to let him stay. Was gonna need him soon and the single strand wasn't keeping him back.

According to my math, they bred back within 1 or 2 weeks of calving. Does this happen much? I just pulled calves of Mommas on the 10th when I took cows to another place.

Funny enough...the cow I expected to be open calved first. She looks rough enough that I wormed her 8 weeks ago. Grass has been short here.

It was very hot and dry last summer and fall. I assumed many hadn't stuck.
 

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Yes. I have a registered angus cow I bought bred last year, calved around Memorial Day which was behind my group. She calved in early march, so had to stick in a similar time frame.
 
That is really "backing them up" with them breeding back so fast. Good nutrition and condition, and the weather and temps were right also. If that is what you are trying to do, congrats....

Preg checked the last group at the barn and they also are mostly all in the 4-5 month range like the last. Have had 3 opens out of over 70 cows... EXCEPTIONAL in my opinion and all 3 were OLD, no teeth smooth mouthed cows and all 3 have pretty decent calves on them... They are out to pasture for the summer and will go when the calves come off in a couple months. And ours also bred back very uniform this time. Very thankful for that. Have a few that got put in with the bull about 3 months and they are all in the 60-80 day range so bred back pretty fast also. Never got them hauled to sale so they will stay with the ones with spring calves and we will either sell as heavy breds or with new calves in the spring... our numbers are down a bit so have grass for them now, and so have options with them. Nice to get things back on track.

Congrats again...
 
farmerjan said:
That is really "backing them up" with them breeding back so fast. Good nutrition and condition, and the weather and temps were right also. If that is what you are trying to do, congrats....

Preg checked the last group at the barn and they also are mostly all in the 4-5 month range like the last. Have had 3 opens out of over 70 cows... EXCEPTIONAL in my opinion and all 3 were OLD, no teeth smooth mouthed cows and all 3 have pretty decent calves on them... They are out to pasture for the summer and will go when the calves come off in a couple months. And ours also bred back very uniform this time. Very thankful for that. Have a few that got put in with the bull about 3 months and they are all in the 60-80 day range so bred back pretty fast also. Never got them hauled to sale so they will stay with the ones with spring calves and we will either sell as heavy breds or with new calves in the spring... our numbers are down a bit so have grass for them now, and so have options with them. Nice to get things back on track.

Congrats again...
Click to expand...
Appreciate that. I hope everyone's had a good breed back.

Was not the intention. I had lined a bull up for December to push them out to cooler weather for calving next year. Going to have to find another bull now.

Really has blown my mind, especially the 1st calves breeding back so quickly. I tried to cull the ones who calved latest in the window last year. The culls included some pretty good cows. Might have helped them.
 
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This will be long, but please ride along with me. For years I have read posters on here claim their cows were calving every 330-300 days every year. I resisted the urge to call them out. Extension research shows that most cattle have a post-parting interval of about 50 days. Meaning that to stay on a 365 day calving interval, she would have one or two heat cycles to conceive. There is the occasional cow that cycles as early as 30 days, but those cows are rare and the heat cycle is not highly fertile. I had occasion to work with a friend who, due to difficulty keeping his bull hemmed up, was running 30 cows with the bull year round. His cows are well cared for, but not excessively so. He lives on the place and sees his cows daily. After a couple of years, he shared a recap of his calving dates. His cows were backing up 30 plus days per year. I was stunned. I began reviewing the research on post-partum interval and realized that most of the research was done on herds with defined breeding seasons. The posters that were writing in were running bulls year round, same as my friend. I looked up a topic I had heard about, years ago, from JN Wiltbank, called bio-stimulation. Wiltbank's research showed that limited access to bulls by post-partum cows caused the cows to come in heat earlier. When we consider a 365 day whole herd calving season as the "Gold Standard", we are dealing with herds in a defined breeding season. Post-partum cows are not exposed to bulls until 85 days after the start of calving season. Cows that could back up their calving dates are prevented by bull turn out. Only later calving cows can back up to get closer to that 365 day "Gold Standard". Look up the work done by Dr. Spitzer on bio-stimulation. I appreciate your patience and welcome your comments. I am convinced that herds running bulls year round can have shorter whole herd calving intervals than herds with defined breeding seasons. I do not subscribe to year round breeding, but could you use this technique to improve your breed ups?
 
I have 2 dairy farmers that breed all AI... and one was having to check calving dates because the cows were coming in heat 20-35 days post calving and he did not want them to get bred back too soon so they could come into their milk and get a decent chance to have a rest from being constantly pregnant...... his heifers were regualarly coming in heat at 11-12 months and they had good growth but he was very careful to not want any calving before 24 months... he was big on longevity and said you lose some of that by having them calve too young... He still has a now retired cow that is 17 that he had many daughters/grand daughters/ and now has some 4th gen grand daughters out of.. . That cow will die on his place.

We try to have a defined calving time frame so as to work with other farm work, and spring ones to be able to turn out to pasture with calves and bulls go in at a certain time.... last year all the fall calving ones must have all gotten bred back not long after the bulls went in... which was later than normal for us but some things just weren't getting done like they should have. Maybe that was good....
My longhorn has backed up more than 30 days every year... bull goes in and she must get bred the next day... last year the bull didn't get taken out and she bred back fast and calved this spring and it was nearly 2 months earlier... don't want calves before early march... too much cold, wet, mud... unpredictable cold snaps, and cold miserable rain the last few years.
Guess those real fertile ones help make up for the few that take longer to settle....
 
I had a bull snafu a few years ago that caused me to have some fall calvers. I've just about eliminated those, will have none next year, but I've had more trouble with fall calvers backing up or missing than spring. One would think November would be a prime time to breed with no heat or cold extremes but apparently not for me.

As nutrition plays a big part in conception rates I decided to supplement 30 days prior to and 60 days after bull turn out. 6# of corn/SHP/CGP every other day. I have some getting older, figure it can't hurt. Maybe pizzing money away too.

At the U of I Dixon Springs research day a few years back one of the students studied AI conception rates and supplementation. 20# a day DDG raised conception rates tremendously. I won't feed near that much, but thought it was interesting.
 
I'm thinking 10 or 11 months needs to be the gold standard. If we can shave 2 months off the interval, that's an extra calf every 5 years. I do like calving during the growing season though. Don't want to calve in January/February ever again.

While there was decent warm season growth last summer, fall growth was pretty much nothing. So they had pretty good nutrition through about December. Over winter they lost more condition than i am ok with, carrying calves plus crappy bought hay. I figured I'd have some opens or late doers. They do eat a lot of weeds though, maybe that helps.

Red #31 looks terrible. Hopefully she will fatten up. Her momma was culled last year because she was a poor looker too. Other than color they are identical.
 

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ClinchValley86 said:
I'm thinking 10 or 11 months needs to be the gold standard. If we can shave 2 months off the interval, that's an extra calf every 5 years. I do like calving during the growing season though. Don't want to calve in January/February ever again.

While there was decent warm season growth last summer, fall growth was pretty much nothing. So they had pretty good nutrition through about December. Over winter they lost more condition than i am ok with, carrying calves plus crappy bought hay. I figured I'd have some opens or late doers. They do eat a lot of weeds though, maybe that helps.

Red #31 looks terrible. Hopefully she will fatten up. Her momma was culled last year because she was a poor looker too. Other than color they are identical.
Click to expand...
My only problem there is exactly what you said, timing. I want march or early April calves for numerous reasons. August or early September is the latest I like, but still not crazy about it. I want to wean around thanksgiving and give the old girl a break through the muddy season. Better for the calves to be away at that time as well. Obviously have to do spring calves to fit that schedule.
 
anewcomer said:
This will be long, but please ride along with me. For years I have read posters on here claim their cows were calving every 330-300 days every year. I resisted the urge to call them out. Extension research shows that most cattle have a post-parting interval of about 50 days. Meaning that to stay on a 365 day calving interval, she would have one or two heat cycles to conceive. There is the occasional cow that cycles as early as 30 days, but those cows are rare and the heat cycle is not highly fertile. I had occasion to work with a friend who, due to difficulty keeping his bull hemmed up, was running 30 cows with the bull year round. His cows are well cared for, but not excessively so. He lives on the place and sees his cows daily. After a couple of years, he shared a recap of his calving dates. His cows were backing up 30 plus days per year. I was stunned. I began reviewing the research on post-partum interval and realized that most of the research was done on herds with defined breeding seasons. The posters that were writing in were running bulls year round, same as my friend. I looked up a topic I had heard about, years ago, from JN Wiltbank, called bio-stimulation. Wiltbank's research showed that limited access to bulls by post-partum cows caused the cows to come in heat earlier. When we consider a 365 day whole herd calving season as the "Gold Standard", we are dealing with herds in a defined breeding season. Post-partum cows are not exposed to bulls until 85 days after the start of calving season. Cows that could back up their calving dates are prevented by bull turn out. Only later calving cows can back up to get closer to that 365 day "Gold Standard". Look up the work done by Dr. Spitzer on bio-stimulation. I appreciate your patience and welcome your comments. I am convinced that herds running bulls year round can have shorter whole herd calving intervals than herds with defined breeding seasons. I do not subscribe to year round breeding, but could you use this technique to improve your breed ups?
Click to expand...
Sheep people used to do some teaser ram stuff through a fence or maybe a vasectomnized ram prior to putting out the breeding ram(s). That was a long time ago. The pheromones are certainly the driver in all of this. Larry Leonhardt said that in multisire herds that the cow would select the bull to mate with via the pheromones of the bull.
 

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