Select for cow frame?

[polledbull]

I prefer inches over frame , I have seen bulls that were called 5 frame be 54" and I have seen bulls 59" be called 6.6 frame , so it can vary. I think it is regional , upper midwestern cattle frame tends to be smaller than southern cattle I am told . I like to use inches when picking bulls for AI breeding , and I look for 58-59 inch bulls when looking for angus bulls for my angus herd,It does seem the angus breed has gotten smaller in the last few years as for height

 

[Nesikep]

Nesikep,
That is a big cow! You did a great job with the curling iron on her hair. She looks ready to go out on the town!!

That's just cow tongue and cow slobber... haven't you tried it?

 

[Oldtimer]

I prefer inches over frame , I have seen bulls that were called 5 frame be 54" and I have seen bulls 59" be called 6.6 frame , so it can vary. I think it is regional , upper midwestern cattle frame tends to be smaller than southern cattle I am told . I like to use inches when picking bulls for AI breeding , and I look for 58-59 inch bulls when looking for angus bulls for my angus herd,It does seem the angus breed has gotten smaller in the last few years as for height

That is why the American Angus Association and the Beef Improvement Board adapted a uniform frame score...

http://www.angus.org/Performance/AHIR/P ... Score.aspx

 

[Chuckie]

Nesikep, I have tried it, and it wasn't that bad, but the cat food I had to eat to help with the hair balls was the part I couldn't handle. :lol2:

 

[djinwa]

I think a big cow like that has a better efficiency when the temps get that cold... More volume to surface area ratio.

Just take me for example... 6' and 140 lbs soaking wet... and watch me eat! The all-you-can-eat buffets have learned to be scared of the skinny folk!

For some reason, people worry more about cold than hot weather. Problem is, cows have more trouble with heat than with cold, as their rumen is a heat producer, like a steaming compost pile.

http://www.cattletoday.com/archive/2007 ... 1033.shtml

 

[djinwa]

Old Timer,
That is a super easy keeping cow. She has not seen any grain since the beginning of March in that picture and it was going into the fall.
All of these cows are Sydenstricker stock, and I have trouble keeping the weight off of them.
People are always telling me, "Back off of the grain" when I am not feeding them anything. This year, the temps were really low, down into the single digits, and the hay was not as good as it should have been. Normally I would be feeding each cow a scoop of grain, but this year I weighed it out. When it stayed down in the single digits, I fed them 5 lbs of feed each, but when it is warmer, in the 30's* they get 3 pounds each.
The hay is low protein this year, as it rained almost every day. It went to seed before we could cut it; the fertilizer was washed away from hard rains, and the hay would get rained on after it was cut. So, none of the hay is consistent. I am just glad to have the hay. So they are getting a bit of feed with vitamins, and such added along with a really good mineral.

The mud... they make the hole. They pick the spot, stand there, urinate in the same spot, make cow piles, and never move. The cycle continues on until they have a cool sludge worked up, and it gets deep. That is where they go lay down when it is hot. I have blocked them out of a hole, and they start another one. My ground has a clay content to it, so when they get wet, it sticks to them. It just drives me crazy. They are never without the clay/mud pack.
I had a new born calf to get in the mud when he was first born, and I was telling a good friend about it. He said that he figured that they were all born that way. :lol2: She had taken him up next to the hay ring where it was wet.
Does anyone else's cows do this in the summer time?
I would like to just go ahead and dig a pond so that they could come half way clean. I don't like the fact that their udders stay in the feces and urine all the time.

To help you understand, as I mentioned above, cattle are big heat producers. To make matters worse, yours have large body mass, have extra fat, and are black. Black cattle absorb more solar radiation, which increases body temperature. Put that together with high heat and humidity in Tennessee, and it is not surprising they spend much time trying to get relief.

I'm reminded of when many black and fat cattle in feedlots died in heat waves in Iowa.

http://www.iowabeefcenter.org/Cattlemen ... 0study.pdf

Producers with the nonshaded
lots reported highest death loss in dark-hided
cattle. Thirty out of 36 producers indicated higher death
loss in black cattle and the other six producers
indicated higher death loss with red cattle and had no
black cattle on feed. One producer indicated only 20%
of the cattle in the pen were black, but 80% of the
death loss was black cattle.

 

[TexasBred]

For some reason, people worry more about cold than hot weather. Problem is, cows have more trouble with heat than with cold, as their rumen is a heat producer, like a steaming compost pile.

http://www.cattletoday.com/archive/2007 ... 1033.shtml

That's why cattle reduce dry matter intake and increase water intake. It's called "cooling". Some like angus may even go stand belly deep in a tank to cool down. Very few cattle drop dead in a pasture from heat stroke.

This was taken last July....they really are suffering. They are brangus....they love heat !!!

 

[Chuckie]

None of my cows were in distress and I see them grazing in the sun in the day time, but what sends them to the mud most of the time are the horse flies. There they can swing their tails in it, splattering it everywhere, on each other and themselves, and it keeps them off of their backs. The thick coating of mud is a great barrier against the horse flies.

Our temps reach 100 here, and the humidity right behind it. I have yet to hear of anyone losing any black cattle around here because of it.
I am sure that poor management or animal cruelty can cause most any situation to happen.

 

[AllForage]

My two cents if anyone cares....

I believe the rubber hits the road on efficiency when one starts finishing their own calves. Chuckie's cow sure has the right "type" but I would not even try to finish her calves on a low energy system such as forage only. It would never put on sufficient finish in 24 months in my opinion. Anything over a 5 frame just does not marble enough in my opinion on grass only generally.

Also talking weights, frame 4 cows can weigh over 1400 in good condition if built right. I wonder how many folks thAt put arbitrary size requirements on their cattle have taken anything all the way. Large cows can certainly hold condition in lush grass country when mature but what was the cost getting them mature. Nobody's cattle really get pushed east of the Mississippi outside of maybe extreme droughts. I have seen first hand the drought and it's affects in OK and TX area. With the wrong build inputs just don't make financial sense. Also while buying in replacements certainly can make financial sense, how does anyone know what it took to get to that nice big size?

Also Chuckie's seems to be the exception most of the time. Cattle that size are usually very dairy like in structure not too easy keeping.

And yes I believe less than 10% are frame 3-4. I know some folks that have spent years trying to find these cattle. The good ones are rare.

 

[Nesikep]

AllForage, haven't see you in a while.. *waves*

I've got a young cow who's looking like she won't get very tall, but she's really built.. I'd have to measure her, but I'd think a frame 5 is about right for her, I think by the time she's 5 she could be 1400... I kept her steer calf (her first calf) last year for our own meat.. he looked really good and meaty and he's doing really well. This cow lost some condition over the summer raising him, but I think she'll do better next year.. I've got her in good shape again now. Her sister is one of those bigger framed cows (frame 7ish?) who is a super easy keeper.. Probably 1400 lbs and makes wonderful calves.

I don't believe in buying replacement heifers, at least not consistently. I think you can do more for your herd by knowing each one's strengths and weaknesses over generations. I can understand if you're short stocked, or got new land and you have to increase the herd though.

 

[Post Oak]

I don't believe in buying replacement heifers, at least not consistently. I think you can do more for your herd by knowing each one's strengths and weaknesses over generations. I can understand if you're short stocked, or got new land and you have to increase the herd though.

Amen, that is exactly how I feel when asked why I just don't go buy my heifers .