Select for cow frame?

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alexfarms

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I got an email from a market consultant today. He claims 90% of today's US cow herd is 6 to 9 frame and only 10% is 3 to 5 frame. He suggests we need to increase the number of 3 to 5 frame cows to lessen cow maintenance. I recently sold a xbred recip cow and a registered cow. The registered cow was probably frame 5 and the recip probably 7. I'd say they were both high 5 bcs. The frame 5 cow weighed 1165 and the frame 7 cow 1205. Kind of made me think the frame 7 cow was hollow or something.

Do you really think that only 10% of the nations cow herd is 3 to 5 frame? When we talk about "optimum" cow size, should we select for frame or weight?
 
Correct frame and Weight. For example a 1200-1400 pound cow that is a 5 frame. The right frame cow can be too light if she doesn't have enough capacity. Example Frame 7 1100 pound cow
 
The other question is, OK, frame 5 might be a good size.. but seriously.. frame 3? I think that's a little small for nearly any herd in any condition.

There also is no "optimum" cow size for a nation... perhaps for a county there is.

I select for a good looking animal (at least in my eyes)... I'm not scared of a slightly larger frame, but it has to have a deep chest and pack some meat on the bones too.
 
That 6 to 9 frame range is a pretty big range. I'd like to see the breakdown of 5 to 6 frame compared to 6 to 7 or 7 to 8 range because a good majority of cattle are probably going to fall in the 5 to 7 frame range. Seemed like in the late 90's the trend was to breed for bigger frame and now the trend is more moderate frame that packs some depth and thickness and are more efficient cows. a 6 frame cow that weighs around 1200-1300 is probably going to be more efficient and cost effective than a 7 frame cow that is weighing in around 1500-1600 or more.

Not judging your 7 frame cow at 1205 as I don't know the circumstances but that seems pretty light for a cow of that frame size as we sent cull cows with smaller frame scores to the sale barn this winter that weighed more than that. Our biggest cow is a 12 year old that is at least a 7 frame or higher and she still weighs in over 1600 even after 2 drought summers and not being pampered with extra feed.
 
SPH, I agree, 60% of those 90% are probably frame 6's, which really skews the numbers

Here is our big girl.. haven't measured her at the hip, but her chest is 92", and I figure she's in the 1900 lb range, my dad is 6' so you can get an idea. She isn't a particularly big eater either.
20140119_113906_zps9a308f8b.jpg
 
While I agree that there is no perfect cow size for all management and environments---I prefer a 4-5 frame cow that matures at a weight of 1100-1300 lbs... We live in a semi-arid area where the average moisture is only around 11 inches- so some years pickings get a little thin and cows have to travel for feed and water... The genetics I have chosen still survive well in these conditions and thrive in the good conditions.. These cows can still bring in a 600-700 lb bull calf- and a 575lb heifer calf.. We had a good grass year and our bull calves we kept to sell this year averaged 685 lbs- steers 623 and heifers 575lbs... I'm also convinced these moderate framed cattle take less feed than the large framed which is important in a part of the country where we sometimes can find ourselves feeding for 6 months-- and I have had less foot/leg/lameness problems which I thinks from not having to put so much weight strain on their legs...
 
With the weight of the cattle from the feedlot getting heavier, what impact will decreasing cow size have on carcass weights?

I myself like a 6 frame cow. Others as they have said like a frame 5. It all comes down to efficiency for producers.

The large frame cattle we have was partly a result of when the Continental breeds first came into the US, they were some big cattle 7+ frame.

What is ironic is that all of the Continentals have brought their frame size down while we have increased the frame of our British breeds.
 
Our cows range from frame score 3-5. The majority of our herd is between 3-4 frame score. They weigh 1100-1300 pounds at the time that we wean the calves.
 
Chuckie,
those cows have some good depth on them. But what did you do.. pull them out of a mud hole??
 
TexasBred":2czwncmr said:
Chuckie":2czwncmr said:
Nesikep,
This cow is 60" tall at the hip, and she weighed a tad bit over 2100 on scales.
Ida20131.jpg


Chuckie you got a herd of hippos there. :lol2:

My frame score sheet didn't even go that high. Had to look at the one at the AAA site which puts 60" between a 9 and 10 frame... :shock:
http://www.angus.org/Performance/AHIR/P ... Score.aspx

I'm glad that I don't have to try and keep something like that filled up with feed during our current -50 to -60 chill factors... I'd have to buy a couple more haystacks.... :p
Yesterday I sold one of my bigger cows that had sluffed a calf a month ago... She was in a BCS between 5 and 6---and she weighed 1275..
 
I think a big cow like that has a better efficiency when the temps get that cold... More volume to surface area ratio.

Just take me for example... 6' and 140 lbs soaking wet... and watch me eat! The all-you-can-eat buffets have learned to be scared of the skinny folk!
 
Old Timer,
That is a super easy keeping cow. She has not seen any grain since the beginning of March in that picture and it was going into the fall.
All of these cows are Sydenstricker stock, and I have trouble keeping the weight off of them.
People are always telling me, "Back off of the grain" when I am not feeding them anything. This year, the temps were really low, down into the single digits, and the hay was not as good as it should have been. Normally I would be feeding each cow a scoop of grain, but this year I weighed it out. When it stayed down in the single digits, I fed them 5 lbs of feed each, but when it is warmer, in the 30's* they get 3 pounds each.
The hay is low protein this year, as it rained almost every day. It went to seed before we could cut it; the fertilizer was washed away from hard rains, and the hay would get rained on after it was cut. So, none of the hay is consistent. I am just glad to have the hay. So they are getting a bit of feed with vitamins, and such added along with a really good mineral.

The mud... they make the hole. They pick the spot, stand there, urinate in the same spot, make cow piles, and never move. The cycle continues on until they have a cool sludge worked up, and it gets deep. That is where they go lay down when it is hot. I have blocked them out of a hole, and they start another one. My ground has a clay content to it, so when they get wet, it sticks to them. It just drives me crazy. They are never without the clay/mud pack.
I had a new born calf to get in the mud when he was first born, and I was telling a good friend about it. He said that he figured that they were all born that way. :lol2: She had taken him up next to the hay ring where it was wet.
Does anyone else's cows do this in the summer time?
I would like to just go ahead and dig a pond so that they could come half way clean. I don't like the fact that their udders stay in the feces and urine all the time.
Two other mud packs.
c0f7c6a9-4d0a-4f30-86b5-44b6893e6f78.jpg

Kizzy20133-1.jpg
 
ours dig 3 foot deep dustholes in our fields kicking dust onto themselves.. it'll flip your tractor over if you hit one, and its no fun on a dirt bike either... we don't get summer mud here though
 

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