Pharo cattle company

[Travlr]

I got my last one from a small kinda local breeder, Has decent EPD's, I was especially looking for lower BW and his calves do have shorter gestation which helps. I paid $3500 CAD (2700 USD)
The day I got him, they feed a little grain but from calving to weaning they're on momma's milk alone and they have some pretty good weights
View attachment 24439

He's a pretty relaxed boy, likes attention, doesn't get worked up
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This summer, I figure around 1800-2000 lbs,. not very tall but thick
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I kept a PB son of his, he's looking pretty good
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Here's my first PB Gelbvieh bull, really liked him
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One of his sons I kept and he's got a few really good daughters in the herd now
View attachment 24443

6 month old son of the one above, cow is from the first PB bull
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Very nice... Your cattle look like what I was working with in the mid eighties and still what I think of as the best of the best.

 

[Travlr]

Are Gelbvieh and Brown Swiss pretty much the same?

My new bull has 'a touch of brown Swiss' mixed in with his red angus blood according to his previous owner. Started to be concerned about the dairy influence until I saw the Gelbvieh ads in Texas. Seems some folks will use them. I thought I was getting mostly angus, though.

But if my calves look similar to yours, I'd be tickled.

I thought some of them in the background looked to have shorthorn influence. That right?

Glad I'm not the only one to have to purchase an emergency bull. Wasn't a good feeling. Hope to not have to do it again.

Brown Swiss are a dairy breed. Google them.

 

[gcreekrch]

Scottish highland come to mind

Let's add Belted Galloway to the mix and make them more worthless!

 

[Nesikep]

One thing that has always made me wonder. In the south the mainstream breeders ect have accepted that adding ear to cattle to make them more feed efficient and heat tolerant.
Yet are so resistant to doing anything similar in the cold north to take advantage of breeds to be more efficient and cold tolerant in the north.

We northerners DO raise cold tolerant cattle, I mean short of being stranded in a Dakota blizzard and suffocating our cows do just fine, and just because we're further north doesn't mean we don't have hot weather, Last year we had 119F in the shade, and from mid may through mid september can be over 100F, Cows just need to be slick in the summer and grow a good winter coat.

 

[Travlr]

Which cold tolerant breeds are you referring to?

Any of the European breeds are cold tolerant, especially if they are larger framed. Extra skin and ear and an inability to grow a decent winter coat are not advised...

 

[farmerjan]

I know that Scottish Highlands and Galloways, (belted or solid colors) are not the kind of cattle that the mainstream buyers and farmers/ranchers can make a living off because they just do not meet what the commercial markets want... but they do have a following.. and belteds especially, do make good carcasses... smaller than the "accepted standard" but there are people that want smaller cuts... and they do real good in the cold with the double hair coat...
But no, I do not want to cross them with anything with "ear"... they do just fine if they shed out good in the summer.... there are a couple of members that have belted Galloways that post on here occasionally... Just like the Murray Grays, and the White Parks, and other "odd ball breeds", they have their followers.... and their place in niche markets.

 

[Rmc]

We northerners DO raise cold tolerant cattle,

Didn't say cold tolerant I said efficient,totally different.

Let's add Belted Galloway to the mix and make them more worthless!

So tell your your first hand experience with crossbreeds from these two breeds . What percentage were they ?

 

[Lazy M]

Oh

Scottish highland come to mind

Oh Brother..

 

[gcreekrch]

Didn't say cold tolerant I said efficient,totally different.

So tell your your first hand experience with crossbreeds from these two breeds . What percentage were they ?

I attend most of our local sales buying and selling cattle. When mainstream cattle are at a certain value and Highlands, Galloways and Dexters are 20 to 30% their value it makes anyone who is not in a niche market/hobby farm position avoid them like the plague.

What is your experience with them Oh Wise One?

Most years our cows show a $300 to $500 profit over actual hard dollar cost to raise a calf to service debt and make improvements. This year, after a very expensive feed cost winter of 21/22 they made over the $600 mark. Is that efficient enough for you Your Highness?

 

[Silver]

Didn't say cold tolerant I said efficient,totally different.

Yet are so resistant to doing anything similar in the cold north to take advantage of breeds to be more efficient and cold tolerant in the north.

 

[gcreekrch]

When one isn't full of bs you don't need to remember.

 

[rocfarm]

They're really different, Gelbvieh would be closer to simmental and Tarantaise, they were both triple purpose breeds and got bred for beef, while the brown swiss was more of a dairy oriented breed and recently was bred exclusively for dairy.
Yup, most of the calves are 1/8 to 1/4 Shorthorn, the thinner momma (red tag) posted is 1/2 Gelbvieh, 1/4 Shorthorn, 1/8th Salers and 1/8th Hereford to the extent of my knowledge
Here's her grandma (the Salers Hereford).. Those weren't twins, that was granddaughter (darker color) stealing, I still have both of them at 12 years old, grandma got to have 16 calves. The bull rubbing on me is the son of the lighter calf, the other is the sister to the red tag cow above.. Grandma was a great cow, didnt' make the biggest calves but was reliable and made thick calves, had a great udder and feet (the cow udder posted way earlier is her oldest daughter and momma of the red tag thin cow and dark heifer here.. I have a Limo sired daughter as well I posted in another thread) View attachment 24469

Oops. Hope my calves don't look like dairy cows!

I think my bull is at least 3/4 red angus though.

Your cattle seem to really fit their environment. I think I'm gonna try to stick with smaller mommas down here, though.

That last northern bit back even our winter grass, so I get to see how my cattle do in tubs and stockpile in earnest now. Hoping they don't drop too much condition.

Look forward to someday having a herd with cows that had 8+ calves. Sound like some really efficient mommas.

Thanks for the description.

 

[BFE]

Scottish highland come to mind

Efficient, small framed... they fit the bill.

I've seen sheepdogs bigger than some highland cows I've seen.

 

[rocfarm]

If you haven't realized it yet. An order to the sale barn for one bull isn't going to be much of a priority for them. How well do they know you? They can be extremely busy on sale day. One bull? That is nickles and dimes for them on a day they are making dollars. Find an order buyer (not a trader) who is trust worthy. Or even better a local older cattleman who goes to the sale regularly. Offer to pay him to pick up a bull for you.
For a lot of years I bought real good unregistered bulls that threw great calves for way less than $2000. I could still get them today but they are a long ways from where I now live. The big name breeders selling on Superior are fun to watch but they are not reality for the vast majority of cattlemen. Keep your ears open and you will find sources of reasonably priced bulls in your area.

Thank you for the suggestion. But to be clear, this is how it went:

1) I showed up at the auction house I put the order in August on a Thursday, not the auction day. I asked the lady working in the office if they liked to do orders like this. She said they could help and gave me someone to talk to.

2) I then showed up to the actual auction two weeks later and talked to someone. He smiled and was very friendly. Said they'd be happy to do it. I told them that I needed the bull around October, so they would have a lot of time to look for me.

3) They said it'd be a touch above market price. I offered a few hundred on top of that to make sure they remembered me and for the delivery. Delivery would have been about 8-10 miles.

4) I called again in mid October to ask if they still wanted to do it. They said yes. I then sent a confirmatory instant message to two people giving a description of the bull, the price, contact info, and the date I needed it by. Also said any auction day they got it, we'd meet them the next day to take delivery at the place, at their convenience.

5) By December, still no bull and still no word on whether or not there would be a bull, and eventually got ghosted. I was never impolite or upset, either.

Was shooting for October calves, as I wanted a fall calving season so that I can handle the weaning and vaccines during my time off during the summer months. Thus, an emergency situation. Was tied down with work. Had to get other people involved to get the bull I have out there now. Not upset that it cost me a premium, but it was definitely bad business.

But that's why I went cheap with my cows. I'd expected these mistakes to occur and wanted to mitigate the capital risks. I'd advise any other newbies to consider these things as well, and plan to make mistakes that cost $$ starting out.

 

[Nesikep]

Oops. Hope my calves don't look like dairy cows!

I think my bull is at least 3/4 red angus though.

Your cattle seem to really fit their environment. I think I'm gonna try to stick with smaller mommas down here, though.

That last northern bit back even our winter grass, so I get to see how my cattle do in tubs and stockpile in earnest now. Hoping they don't drop too much condition.

Look forward to someday having a herd with cows that had 8+ calves. Sound like some really efficient mommas.

Thanks for the description.

There's always some that are better than others, and sometimes it's not the pretty ones that make the best calves!

You might see a little dairy in the calves, you might not.. the joys of getting a new bull and wondering what his calves are going to be like. When I got my first PB Gelbvieh bull, it was in a pinch when the other bull failed and we talked to our sale barn, and I didn't know it at the time, but the bull came from the guys own herd. Best thing that old bull ever did was break his pecker! (and he was a mean sumbitch)

Oh, and I really like the old cows, the 12+ year old cows know the drill and they have a certain presence and character.

 

[rocfarm]

There's always some that are better than others, and sometimes it's not the pretty ones that make the best calves!

You might see a little dairy in the calves, you might not.. the joys of getting a new bull and wondering what his calves are going to be like. When I got my first PB Gelbvieh bull, it was in a pinch when the other bull failed and we talked to our sale barn, and I didn't know it at the time, but the bull came from the guys own herd. Best thing that old bull ever did was break his pecker! (and he was a mean sumbitch)

Oh, and I really like the old cows, the 12+ year old cows know the drill and they have a certain presence and character.

Well, I'm still young enough to still root for a little serendipity, but old enough to know that—if you rely on it—it can put you out of business.

Plan to keep two bulls around during the breeding season from now on. One to breed and the other to turn in as a cleanup in case something went wrong. Then will sell one around July and buy another young one. Hopefully will fix the emergency bull buying. Enjoyed that process about as much as doing $750 in damage on my equipment that first summer as a newbie operator.

But this last winter vacation week that I worked on the farm I did $0 dollars in damage, so I guess it was time for my losses to shift to another area of the operation!

 

[rocfarm]

Everyone has to decide and figure out for themselves what works and makes money for them. But a couple of observations that seem to fit conditions in my area.
A $5000 bull from 44 Farms and such places probably ain't gonna pencil out for a small producer here selling commodity cattle.
If I could make the money on corriente cattle that are claimed by some here, I see no reason to upgrade to more expensive angus cows and a $5000 bull. If those low input cattle return the money claimed, I would not use them as a stepping stone to own higher cost cattle. I would just keep on raking in the gold from those $400 cows.

They're harder to handle, though. And those horns make them more dangerous. So it's not always about the money. It's about safety and injuries as well.

The one I have does use her horns to hook the other cows away from the cubes—A LOT. She's smaller, but those horns keep the others off of her.

And if you want to keep a much larger capital investment going, it makes sense that more expensive cattle could be the way to go, especially if you can get $5000 for a 18-month-old bull, or sell F1 Braford heifers for $3000 a piece like I saw year-before-last in central Texas.

And it seems that many people just really want to have good-looking, 'front-pasture' cattle. Nothing wrong with that, either.

But if I had more time and was still in shape, I think I'd really go the corriente route to see if it does work money-wise.

 

[andybob]

I know that Scottish Highlands and Galloways, (belted or solid colors) are not the kind of cattle that the mainstream buyers and farmers/ranchers can make a living off because they just do not meet what the commercial markets want... but they do have a following.. and belteds especially, do make good carcasses... smaller than the "accepted standard" but there are people that want smaller cuts... and they do real good in the cold with the double hair coat...
But no, I do not want to cross them with anything with "ear"... they do just fine if they shed out good in the summer.... there are a couple of members that have belted Galloways that post on here occasionally... Just like the Murray Grays, and the White Parks, and other "odd ball breeds", they have their followers.... and their place in niche markets.

Like many native breeds, the Celtic cattle are efficient but do not meet modern market requirements. but are still a logical choice for either a base damline to multiply F1 heifers for terminal production, or as a 50% or 25% content in a composite breed. Mainstream breeds which grow a good haircoat such as Hereford and Shorthorn show their ability to pass on a good cold weather adaptation when you consider how well the Thornbush Bonsmara herd have adapted to the conditions in Alberta, a 25% Highland or Galloway composite would be even better adapted. I wonder if there is potential to use genetics from the Chirikof island feral herd?

 

[gcreekrch]

All been tried Andybob, if the crosses actually worked there would be thousands of those cows today. They may be wonderful mother cows but we still have to sell to a market that demands growth in a feedlot and a large carcass.
Years back I was interested in putting black Galloway blood into our cows, shooting for 1/4 blood cows. I quizzed the buyer's row at our local yards and was unanimously told that when I started sending Galloway cross calves they would stop paying the premium I was getting. I never bought any bulls.

 

[Silver]

I'm not sure I understand why anyone would think that European or British cattle aren't best suited for the north and less suited as you get south and the temperatures rise.