Pharo Bull Sale

[angus9259]

If you want OCC genetics go to OCC.
If you want Pharo genetics go to Pharo.
If you want XYZ genetics go to XYZ.

oohhhhh. I get it now! I know OCC and PCC but who's XYZ? Are they low input cattle as well?

 

[ALACOWMAN]

If you want OCC genetics go to OCC.
If you want Pharo genetics go to Pharo.
If you want XYZ genetics go to XYZ.

oohhhhh. I get it now! I know OCC and PCC but who's XYZ? Are they low input cattle as well?

http://beefmagazine.com/mag/beef_selfpreservation/ :cowboy:

 

[angus9259]

well, there you go. glad I didn't say anything bad about them . . .

 

[SRBeef]

...I have never seen how his bulls do after they get out on good strong grass-- but I have the Ohlde and Diamond D bulls/cattle...Altho I've been told that just like those bulls the Pharo cattle do very good when they get on good groceries...

I know nothing about any of these cattle mentioned however the idea that if you take a bull (or in my case a bred heifer) and take them from a difficult tough environment and put them in good grass that they will then thrive, is very interesting.

It seems similar to my current situation with a big name heifer from very dry southern plains conditions and put her in some good Wisconsin mixed grass pastures and hay does her body condition/appearance/BCS improve dramatically up to her genetic potential and enough more so than a heifer originating in a good grass area to make the tranasction worth the effort???

Jim

 

[AllForage]

Bringing animals from south to north and especially west to east can be difficult. There most likely will be some environmental lag time. Our Wisconsin pastures are extremely watery and very weak compared to western grasses. Our cattle need very large rumens to hold enough watery feed for nourishment compared to western cattle. One bite of New Mexico grass is probably a whole small bale of our feed. Keep that in mind if imported animals seem to lag a little. I bring my bulls in as young as possible and give them a whole year to adapt. It has worked for me well. I have also heard some real horror stories.

 

[Jake]

There is a lot to be said for the quality vs. quantity of forages. A lot of the tall and short grass prairies are much higher Dry Matter % but the way the growing seasons and the way our warm season grasses are it takes protein supplementation on the higher maintenance animals. In our area from the middle of September to April there is very little protein in any available forage source. So unless you have the type of cattle that can thrive on the lower protein forages your going to see a HUGE jump in supplement costs. A cow that can survive without supplement is the goal for us. Though I will admit we must give some protein to them to maintain BCS come January and February when the stalks are getting weathered.

 

[Oldtimer]

A couple of quotes from Kits Newsletter:

After taking out ten no-sale bulls, we are able to provide you with some updated results from our Fall Bull Sale. We sold 290 bulls for an average price if $3730. That is a considerable increase over what I reported last week. If you are interested, individual sale prices have been posted in the online version of our sale catalog.



We sold most of the no-sale bulls at the posted base price shortly after the sale.

A few status-quo, self-proclaimed experts think they can watch a 15 to 20 second video clip of our bulls and tell everyone else (at least those who will listen) what is wrong with our bulls. Because of the year, our bulls were 50 to 100 pounds lighter than they were last year. Therefore, a few of these so-called experts are saying things like, "The structure was subject to criticism," and "What I saw was, IN MY OPINION, some of the worst LOOKING bulls, from a phenotype standpoint, that I have seen in many years!" Folks, these are the same genetics we sold last year, and the year before. Phenotype and structure may be visually affected by nutrition (or lack thereof) – but they are NOT genetically changed. These bulls will do nothing but improve with age! I guarantee it!

If you are interested in grass genetics- and/or the more maternal and efficient type of cattle- there is a new discussion site where several of the breeders discuss/argue their points about cattle:
http://www.keeneyscorner.com

 

[EAT BEEF]

I would like to know what makes Kit a so called expert at something other than marketing some bulls somebody besides him raised.

 

[3waycross]

I would like to know what makes Kit a so called expert at something other than marketing some bulls somebody besides him raised.

Keep lippin off and he will most likely email/PM you the answer :nod: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Beef11]

What a great set of viewpoints. I am always in the market for genetics that are going to improve efficency. That said I've heard alot about the Pharo Cattle and have agreed at times with the sometimes off camber philosophies that PCC purveys. The sale I watched on RFD-tv let me have a look at the products of the program and probably gave me a better look at the cattle than their sight unseen bull buying option would have. I was however very disapointed in some of the bulls. Let me sight the lot 1 bull 19100 dollars is quite a lot of money. While he was lighter than average due to weather, he was very sickle hocked. 19100 for a sickle hocked bull tells me something. In the future I will be leery about the purchase of PCC genetics. I would still be interested but would dig very deep into pedigree and performance data of both the animal itself, Dam, siblings, sire and so forth. That all coming of course after the satisfactory completion of a "good looking over". Now what will define the PCC operation in my mind is the manner of response to the harsher critsisms that have been dealt out. I'll be watching.

 

[quackingduck]

I do like the selection criteria that the PCC bulls are derived from and Pharo's management philosophies have a lot of merit. Form does follow function. It makes more sense to produce an animal from profitable management than to produce the management for your desired phenotype. The great breeders seem to produce their desired phenotype cattle which are profitable for their costumers. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Now off to the hair salon. ;-)

 

[angus9259]

Can't livestock be efficient and able to hold up under the harshest conditions and STILL have at least non-objectionable phenotype? That said, if PCC bulls last as long as promised, then it probably doesn't really matter if the ol boy's sickled hocked, cow hocked, or ham hocked for that matter. Have they proven that phenotype really doesn't matter?

 

[agmantoo]

Deleted

 

[Northern Rancher]

I called Kit about a couple Horned Hereford bulls awhile back-I described what I looked for in feet and legs. He looked the bulls over and told me he thought they weren't quite what I wanted-I thought that was pretty good of him. Anybody who sells as many bulls as he does is bound to have some customers that aren't happy-trust me there are people out there who would be mad even if they were hung with a new rope!

 

[ALACOWMAN]

:hat:

 

[agmantoo]

I received a phone call from Kit Pharo. With the posts I made earlier I was the the third party in the transaction. I made the recommendation that the buyer use PCC for the source of a bull. The bull was purchased and when the first two calves were born there were problems. The buyer contacted me asking what to do? I suggested she contact the seller. For my standpoint there was a lot of communication between the buyer and the seller. The buyer left me with the impression she was not satisfied but agreed to keep the animal. I have not since been contacted by the buyer regarding the bull. I felt that I had compromised my reputation through the recommendation and yes I was not happy. Therein lies the background for my posts. Kit Pharo has assured me that these issues have be corrected and the buyer is satisfied. If I have misled anyone, I apologize.

 

[agmantoo]

ALACOWMAN

Have you had a chance to read the Private Message I sent?

 

[Herefords.US]

IMO there are two sides to Kit. I have read a lot of his newsletters and his supposedly attitude to make things right. When the time comes to making things right his attitude shifts. He is very closed minded and takes the position that his animals could not be the cause of a problem. I can do a little math and I see the number of PCC animals sold and the prices generated. A person that enjoys that level of income should IMO make things right when a $3000 animal has issues with its offspring. The high road would have been to send the bull to market and the difference in what the animal sold for for meat subtracted from the purchase price and the difference returned to the buyer of the bull. Kit's position was to find every excuse for the faults but the bull he sold. I would never recommend anyone doing business with PCC.

What is it that Kit says?

I may not always be right, but I'm never in doubt! :cowboy: